Descending out of tree

[xtremetrees]

Yeah Ill buy any steel 8's you got with or without ears. Ill send um all to the ground to. ha. Nice post

 

[Doctor Dave]

AH! i gotcha now.... i thought you were rapping top to bottom on a single line with friction hitch.

makes sense now. But i (personally) would still use hardware, probably a rack that can be easily and quickly locked off whil you work.

I've used a rack before with kern mantle rope, for practicing crane evacuation. They're great. Wife dosen't know yet that I spent around $600 on gear and books at the ISA meeting. Maybe in a couple months I'll get a rack.

Maybe you can explain---why is it that some climbers use a Blakes followed up with a small pulley? I have yet to figure out how to get myself up a tree (or up higher from my initial tie-in) with a friction hitch. I use a set of ascenders (jumars), but problem is, then you need a second rope to move around. Or I shinny up a trunk with a flip line (a pain). Of course, we are taking hardwoods here; I free climb, using my spikes and flip line as needed to get up conifers. I'll try the secured foot lock with a set of prusik loops next on a doubled rope; that was the set up for the climbing competition at ISA.

 

[clearance]

Really? I had no idea! Can I ask some questions about this?
1. Who banned the figure 8-the outfit you work for, B.C., Canada, or someone else?
2. Are they just banned or actually illegal?
3. Who polices figure 8 usage?
4. What are the consequences if you get caught using a figure 8?
5. Why are they banned?
6. Can you get in trouble for even carrying one?

The reason I ask is because I have done storm work in Canada on several occasions. My figure 8 is usually attached to my saddle and I know of several occasions where I have used it while in Canadian territory. Should I stop bringing it on my treks across the border?

(Huh, now that I've confessed on a public forum, how long before the mounties are beating down my door? Maybe I'd better get rid of the evidence! Anyone want to buy a couple of figure 8's cheap-got to get rid of them immediately!!!! Wait I hear someone at the door now--nooooooooo!!)

Banned by the Workers Compensation Board (OSHA like outfit), I have one on my belt, allowed to have it, not allowed to use it. Banned I heard because if you lose consciosness while coming down you can fall and be hurt/killed, let go of a tautline and you stop. If you are caught using one its summary execution, bullet to the head, no questions asked.

 

[squisher]

I have a friend who's still serving time for using one. Canadian prison though so you get cable and beer.

 

[SRT-Tech]

I've used a rack before with kern mantle rope, for practicing crane evacuation. They're great. Wife dosen't know yet that I spent around $600 on gear and books at the ISA meeting. Maybe in a couple months I'll get a rack.

Maybe you can explain---why is it that some climbers use a Blakes followed up with a small pulley? I have yet to figure out how to get myself up a tree (or up higher from my initial tie-in) with a friction hitch. I use a set of ascenders (jumars), but problem is, then you need a second rope to move around. Or I shinny up a trunk with a flip line (a pain). Of course, we are taking hardwoods here; I free climb, using my spikes and flip line as needed to get up conifers. I'll try the secured foot lock with a set of prusik loops next on a doubled rope; that was the set up for the climbing competition at ISA.

the little pulley unweights the Blakes (when the "down rope" is footlocked and pulled down) and allows the Blakes to move up the rope, without you having to move it.

Banned by the Workers Compensation Board (OSHA like outfit), I have one on my belt, allowed to have it, not allowed to use it. Banned I heard because if you lose consciosness while coming down you can fall and be hurt/killed, let go of a tautline and you stop. If you are caught using one its summary execution, bullet to the head, no questions asked.

yep. run a Figure 8 with no backup and you fall fast. If your lucky the tail of the rope will whip around and snag on something, stopping your impact but dont hold your breath.

Racks are numero uno in my view. in the many experiments i have done with a suspended static kernmantle rope, a 6 bar (steel) rappel rack and a 200 lb dummyweight, attached to the rack, the weight simply slides down slowly (very slowly) or actually stops all together, with no hand on the rope to control braking.

the same experiment with a figure 8 and the 200lb load left a 6" crater in the floor when the cement block crashed down.

 

[moss]

I have yet to figure out how to get myself up a tree (or up higher from my initial tie-in) with a friction hitch. I use a set of ascenders (jumars), but problem is, then you need a second rope to move around. Or I shinny up a trunk with a flip line (a pain). Of course, we are taking hardwoods here; I free climb, using my spikes and flip line as needed to get up conifers. I'll try the secured foot lock with a set of prusik loops next on a doubled rope; that was the set up for the climbing competition at ISA.

Doctor Dave, pick up a copy of Jepson's Tree Climber's Companion, he does a good job of explaining DdRT climbing with a friction hitch. If you don't like reading get this video Tree Climbing Basics it does an excellent job of covering basic friction hitch climbing.

Better yet get both.

The pulley below the hitch could be set up for two different purposes. One is a slack tender for closed hitches (see Jepson's) the other is to advance the hitch (as SRT-Tech mentioned) when you're climbing on a Blake's Hitch. First learn to climb basic DdRT, it will all make sense and you'll be one happy tree climber.
-moss

 

[squisher]

Jim is it still frowned upon by WCB even if you back it up with say a six coil prussic or is it just not allowed to be used altgether.

 

[Doctor Dave]

Doctor Dave, pick up a copy of Jepson's Tree Climber's Companion, he does a good job of explaining DdRT climbing with a friction hitch. If you don't like reading get this video Tree Climbing Basics it does an excellent job of covering basic friction hitch climbing.

Better yet get both.

The pulley below the hitch could be set up for two different purposes. One is a slack tender for closed hitches (see Jepson's) the other is to advance the hitch (as SRT-Tech mentioned) when you're climbing on a Blake's Hitch. First learn to climb basic DdRT, it will all make sense and you'll be one happy tree climber.
-moss

Thanks a lot! I'll check it out.

 

[Doctor Dave]

the little pulley unweights the Blakes (when the "down rope" is footlocked and pulled down) and allows the Blakes to move up the rope, without you having to move it.


I think I'm going to really enjoy my little pulley. Thanks!

 

[hobby climber]

Coming Down...

With Blake's in place, I'll use an 8 below the friction knot and use it to rappel for best control. If for some reason I loose control of the 8, the Blake's is my back up. Just have to have a hand on the Blake's to keep pressure off of it while descending! I will also tie a stopper know at the end of my rope so it can't run through the fig-8 or friction knot for safety. HC

 

[Doctor Dave]

Coming Down...

With Blake's in place, I'll use an 8 below the friction knot and use it to rappel for best control. If for some reason I loose control of the 8, the Blake's is my back up. Just have to have a hand on the Blake's to keep pressure off of it while descending! I will also tie a stopper know at the end of my rope so it can't run through the fig-8 or friction knot for safety. HC

Do you do this with the rope looped over a good crotch, with a double bite of line through the 8, and a split tail for the Blakes?

 

[beowulf343]

I like to use a fig 8 or a munter, and back em up with a blakes. Adding an extra turn on the blakes hitch helps with the binding problem.

Okay, question about the extra turn on the blakes. I tie mine four turns and up through the bottom two turns. When you add an extra turn, do you go up through the bottom two turns or the bottom three turns?

I leave enough of a stub after topping to act as a crotch so that rappelling is safe enough. Even if I have to stop along the way, my rope can be reset. No extra fig 8s or other junk needed. Simple is as simple does.

What do you do when you need to get down a forty foot stem and no branches are on it?

 

[clearance]

What do you do when you need to get down a forty foot stem and no branches are on it?

I cut a big V in the top, at least as deep as my 020s bar, then I put my rope into it, bowline to my D rings, tautline backed with a figure 8 and come down.

 

[beowulf343]

I cut a big V in the top, at least as deep as my 020s bar, then I put my rope into it, bowline to my D rings, tautline backed with a figure 8 and come down.

Ha, ha, rhetorical question clearance. I just asked it because people seem to assume things-like every tree will have a branch that you can stub off. That's not always the case. Just trying to give out the worst case scenarios.

Btw, too bad figure 8 devices are banned-in the time it would take you to cut your notch, I'd be on the ground coiling up my rope, all thanks to my figure 8 device! (take it easy clearance-just picking on you)

 

[hobby climber]

Do you do this with the rope looped over a good crotch, with a double bite of line through the 8, and a split tail for the Blake's?

Dr.Dave,

Either a natural crotch or a false crotch. Single bite through the Fig-8!

One end of rope attached to my saddle (Versatile), around a crotch or false crotch. A split tail from my saddle to the friction hitch attached to the bite,(Blake's). Then that single line below the Blake's through the fig-8 thats connected to a different attachment point on on my saddle.

Remember, I use the "Versatile" saddle that has lots of attachment points in the front!

The Fig-8 is the primary descending device with the Blake's as a back up. If working, I set this up ,(as explained above) and work as I go down. Once to a good working position, I let go of the Fig-8 and I'am held solidly in place with the Blake's.

No melting or high heat on my ropes with this set up...& safe also. And isn't that what its all about...Being Safe!

Works for me just fine! HC

 

[dakota]

Ha, ha, rhetorical question clearance. I just asked it because people seem to assume things-like every tree will have a branch that you can stub off. That's not always the case. Just trying to give out the worst case scenarios.

I wasn't assuming anything. Every tree is different - I was just adding my two cents. Other than chunking out spars on the way down - I've never had to descend that far w/o a crotch to support my rope. There's not too many of those monsters that Clearance climbs here in Milwaukee.

 

[woodchux]

Okay, question about the extra turn on the blakes. I tie mine four turns and up through the bottom two turns. When you add an extra turn, do you go up through the bottom two turns or the bottom three turns?

I go through the bottom two, 3 over / 2 under.

 

[Doctor Dave]

Dr.Dave,

Either a natural crotch or a false crotch. Single bite through the Fig-8!

One end of rope attached to my saddle (Versatile), around a crotch or false crotch. A split tail from my saddle to the friction hitch attached to the bite,(Blake's). Then that single line below the Blake's through the fig-8 thats connected to a different attachment point on on my saddle.

Remember, I use the "Versatile" saddle that has lots of attachment points in the front!

The Fig-8 is the primary descending device with the Blake's as a back up. If working, I set this up ,(as explained above) and work as I go down. Once to a good working position, I let go of the Fig-8 and I'am held solidly in place with the Blake's.

No melting or high heat on my ropes with this set up...& safe also. And isn't that what its all about...Being Safe!

Works for me just fine! HC

Single bite--of course. I was having a brain-fart (good thing I was sitting safely at my computer). Before I come down (and when ever I change my attachment in the tree), I put some weight on my rigging, with feet on a branch (and with an extra flip line or lanyard on something) just to feel and eyeball everythiing. Kind of a modification of the "hands off" test.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

The PETZL I'd is my favorite descent tool. I have some other descenders that have a sweet spot for descending and panic stop aspects too.

Having the ability to 'let-go-lock-off' as well as a tool that will stop descent if the handle is pulled all of the way is very important. The I'd does both.

Using eights and variations on the idea puts hockles into climbing lines.

A five or six bar rack is another good tool.

Go to Gary Storrick's site for ALL of the info:

http://storrick.cnchost.com/VerticalDevicesPage/VerticalHome.shtml

 

[lync]

Tom I have to agree the I'D rocks. Its also very versitile. Ill climb srt, take off the ascenders put on I"d and set 1 ascender w/ micro pully above it setting up a RADS system. Pull up my tail set up a split tail and double crotch
my way out and about the branches. One of the best tools out there.

Corey