Differences 45-52-58-(62)cc chinease zenoah clones

[ijpom]

@TheBrushSlasher @Huskvarna hotellgäst Thanks for your quick input.

I'd take any comparison weights I can get. I assume your Surpass is the knockoff similar to mine (but more cc's), and I assume the S145 isn't related in design, just sized similarly?

Seems like the 3800 platform (maybe with the 4100 capacity) would meet my nirvana of weight and power. But these are much less available than the bigger units, so I'll keep looking.

 

[Huskvarna hotellgäst]

@TheBrushSlasher @Huskvarna hotellgäst Thanks for your quick input.

I'd take any comparison weights I can get. I assume your Surpass is the knockoff similar to mine (but more cc's), and I assume the S145 isn't related in design, just sized similarly?

Seems like the 3800 platform (maybe with the 4100 capacity) would meet my nirvana of weight and power. But these are much less available than the bigger units, so I'll keep looking.

Amid the plethora of copies, Ryobi has this licensed version which may be worth a look. https://www.ryobitools.com/outdoor/products/details/2-cycle-18-in-chain-saw

 

[TBS]

@TheBrushSlasher @Huskvarna hotellgäst Thanks for your quick input.

I'd take any comparison weights I can get. I assume your Surpass is the knockoff similar to mine (but more cc's), and I assume the S145 isn't related in design, just sized similarly?

Seems like the 3800 platform (maybe with the 4100 capacity) would meet my nirvana of weight and power. But these are much less available than the bigger units, so I'll keep looking.

The craftsman s145 is a modified copy of the g4100 with closed transfer ports and removable transfer covers. They are pretty well built.

Amid the plethora of copies, Ryobi has this licensed version which may be worth a look. https://www.ryobitools.com/outdoor/products/details/2-cycle-18-in-chain-saw

Those are a fairly good little unit to run.

s145 11lbs loaded

56cc 15lbs dry.

 

[ijpom]

Those weights are right in line with the specs I've read and my personal weight measurements. Proving the Zenoah 3800 platform is probably what I want to target as my middle weight saw.

That Craftsman appears to have the same bar/chain fitment as my other Craftsmans, and that makes things way more convenient. The Ryobi 37cc and 38cc both run the 3/8 LP, 050 gauge chain too, but the bar configuration is unknown to the Oregon Parts finder. Gives me lots of options to look out for, thanks.

Meanwhile, the truly committed Poulan/Craftsman guys from another thread would probably say bad words about anything after the 1980's. I think their main issue is the longevity of the plastic housings and internal engine components. I'm more pragmatic, and just need to cut wood sometimes.

 

[Huskvarna hotellgäst]

The craftsman s145 is a modified copy of the g4100 with closed transfer ports and removable transfer covers. They are pretty well built.

Looks like good value (not a fan of easy start but.. look at the price! )
https://www.lowes.com/pd/CRAFTSMAN-S145-14-in-42-cc-2-Cycle-Gas-Chainsaw/1001225020
Do you know if they're also made by Techtronics, like the Ryobi?

 

[Huskvarna hotellgäst]

That Craftsman appears to have the same bar/chain fitment as my other Craftsmans, and that makes things way more convenient. The Ryobi 37cc and 38cc both run the 3/8 LP, 050 gauge chain too, but the bar configuration is unknown to the Oregon Parts finder. Gives me lots of options to look out for, thanks.

Parts list attached FYI.
Because the bar mount is part of the crankcase casting, I'd be prepared to surmise that every variant fits an Oregon A041.

 

[TBS]

Looks like good value (not a fan of easy start but.. look at the price! )
https://www.lowes.com/pd/CRAFTSMAN-S145-14-in-42-cc-2-Cycle-Gas-Chainsaw/1001225020
Do you know if they're also made by Techtronics, like the Ryobi?

They are made for MTD by Painier.
http://www.chinapioneer.com.cn/English/Product/Chain saw/list_2.html

 

[Huskvarna hotellgäst]

Meanwhile, the truly committed Poulan/Craftsman guys from another thread would probably say bad words about anything after the 1980's. I think their main issue is the longevity of the plastic housings and internal engine components. I'm more pragmatic, and just need to cut wood sometimes.

My favourite saw is from the '80s - the one in my profile pic - but the Zenoah G3800 is probably no.2.
The Japanese market was traditionally focused on easy starting and reliability more than high performance so while it was never a powerhouse, it was a neatly designed saw which is easy on the operator.

 

[ijpom]

So I liked my first Blue Max so much I adopted a second one. With a known oil leak, but excellent compression (hand pull test only).

Was tearing into saw to get to oiler and noticed typical air filter, with residue inside from bad seal.
Second picture shows a plastic drive gear from main shaft to oiler gear. Looks stripped so went and bought some ebay pieces ($5 for 5, shipped and US location). I assume it's the intentional weakest link, and happens often.
Also got pics of oil pump, oil supply line half in tank, and fully out. Seems the wavy perimeter of the plug might be the source of the leak. Anyone else have this experience, or a remedy?

Then just for fun I snapped the piston upper ring, both rings and the skirt of the piston. Seems un-scored but had dark color around the rings from baked on oil?
For reference:
This is on a saw that was hard starting, high idling (so chain would spin strong during idle), bogging on throttle application while cold, and appeared to be running super rich for both L and H. (Both needles were out 2+ turns)

 

[ijpom]

Other pics

 

[TBS]

So I liked my first Blue Max so much I adopted a second one. With a known oil leak, but excellent compression (hand pull test only).

Was tearing into saw to get to oiler and noticed typical air filter, with residue inside from bad seal.
Second picture shows a plastic drive gear from main shaft to oiler gear. Looks stripped so went and bought some ebay pieces ($5 for 5, shipped and US location). I assume it's the intentional weakest link, and happens often.
Also got pics of oil pump, oil supply line half in tank, and fully out. Seems the wavy perimeter of the plug might be the source of the leak. Anyone else have this experience, or a remedy?

Then just for fun I snapped the piston upper ring, both rings and the skirt of the piston. Seems unscored but had dark color around the rings from bakes oil?
For reference:
This is on a saw that was hard starting, high idling (so chain would spin strong), bogging on throttle application while cold, and appeared to be running super rich for both L and H. (Both needles were out 2+ turns)

Out 2 turns means you've got an air leak somewhere. Check everything from carburetor bolts to that crank seal on the clutch side. Spray some soapy water on the crank seal and pull it over with the plug in, watch for bubbles. It was probably ran with no bar oil for a short while because a striped gear means the pump locked up. It doesn't look like the clutch side got hot so that's good.
I just put some silicone adhesive on the oil line grommet because they are a source of oil leakage on these saws. As for the air filter make a thicker seal.

 

[Fatherwheels]

The only answer to questions about the knockoffs is to get some and go from there. In terms of what parts are interchangeable, who knows? Best bet is to buy the saw from the same people you are planning on getting the parts.

A new $80.00 delivered to your door 52cc saw should be expected to be just that, the last time I could get a new saw for $80.00 it was a 32cc Mcculloch from Home Depot. The knockoff 52cc saws I am familiar with are far better saws than those or the $100.00 Poulans of the same era.

If I was buying a cheap saw, I would buy from efco emack oleo-mac, they are made in china,
with one difference, they also stock parts for them, which can make a considerable difference.
But I would not buy one at all, because of how the chinese are, and what they think of us all,
their deeds towards the minorities living along side them are terrible, they are a bunch of evil
doers, and should be avoided, their only interest in domination and brainwashing.

 

[ijpom]

So I'm first time restoring the fuel system of a Chinese 4500 Blue Max saw.


These came in my rebuild kit with fuel, oil and drive parts. Top two parts are oiler system parts. Lower should be fuel system (supply/return?)



Since there is RTV, looks to have been worked on, and can't be trusted to be stock. Tygon probably is not stock.


Stock hose inserts under intake! And access sux. What should I remove for best access to it, or should I just run an after market Tygon tube for the intake?



Can't see or feel or hear a fuel filter in tank.
But it needs one.
Anyone got a technique for this install?

Edit thought:
Maybe black existing tube is return? Tygon tube is so short, fuel would starve after 3/4 tank, and has no filter, so I assumed it was a long return.

 

[ijpom]

Outcome of rebuilt:
Tygon line was supply line, and I replaced it with a longer piece and put a fuel filter in the tank.



Black line is NOT return, but some kind of pressure/vacuum impulse line to assist in drawing in fuel.


Carb needed new valve gasket, as old one was clearly too wavy.



The screen looked clean, but was at an angle. I pushed it in until it bottomed. Not sure if screen should be at the ridge , or at the base as shown.

Carb settings are still a little odd for me but saw is running well with 1.25 for L and 2 turns for H.

Regardless of all that, saw pulls hard, idles well and cuts well since I sharpened the chain.

 

[ijpom]

I have repaired a used Blue Max using these parts. Note the outboard clutch mates into the Oiler drive gear,


But I also got these better clutch parts and chain drive gears, which are supposed to be for "45-52-58cc Chinese chainsaw".



I'd like to use the clutch with the Blue Max oiler, but I suspect the oiler drive will be quickly chewed up by the il-fitting interface to the clutch.

Anyone use them together? how did it go?

 

[TBS]

The worm gear will work fine, All of the new craftsman saws have a rim sprocket setup and use the same gear.

 

[ijpom]

I've never taken off a cylinder on my Zenoah 45cc saws, but I want to replace crank seals on one. I've got a tight flywheel that does not want to be removed in my normal way - loosen nut, tap end of crank while holding flywheel.
I assume it's got a keyway, and is on a tapered shaft, like all the others I've seen?
Any special removal techniques that prove successful?

 

[NSEric]

You doing it right and they do have a tapered shaft with a keyway, they just get stuck, try some heat.
Im 1 for 2 removing flywheels on these saws, I was doing it to advance timing not for repairs.
One came right off the other was over tightened and wont budge, so I left it alone.

 

[Piotr Pakuła]

the word replica also fits ;-)

 

[ijpom]

You doing it right and they do have a tapered shaft with a keyway, they just get stuck, try some heat.
Im 1 for 2 removing flywheels on these saws, I was doing it to advance timing not for repairs.
One came right off the other was over tightened and wont budge, so I left it alone.

Hi Eric,
That's disappointing news.
I've put some penetrating fluid on it overnight and will try it again today.
Then heat.
I will probably base gasket delete, as long as I'm in this deep, and wanted to measure 'squish', or what I might call clearance from piston to inside of cylinder. It appears that the perimeter of the cylinder is the only area that is tight (given a domed spark plug space) so I tried and couldn't compress my solder at all. It measures at 0.048".
Any experience with this deletion or the measurement I'm doing.
I'll just try with thicker solder, but also dryfit the cylinder with no gasket, and try another measurement for safety.