Don't name names. It's not a good idea!

[splittah]

I don't know about you guys but if my in-laws hired another tree company there would be bigger issues than tree care going on!

I do not buy into this mentality.

Just because you own a business and your in-laws need that type of work done does not in any way make you the best man for the job.

And just because you do that kind of work it does not make you the best in the business either... there will always be someone better than you at doing something. If they are more comfortable doing business with someone else that is entirely their prerogative.

Doing business with family is bad business to begin with.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

I would have told her they are known to do terrible work if that is the fact. I don't make things up about anybody but facts are facts and I sure don't have a problem with stating them. One local tree guy here is extremely careful he never says anything bad about some of the bum tree services around here but one of my customers said a while back she didn't think the guy was trying to be super honorable or anything he was just afraid somebody at the hack tree service would slap his old azz down. I had to agree with her.

Too bad for the old guy. You don't know me, so we're cool, but I assure you that nobody would want to try to "slap" any part of me down. I avoid bad-rapping other companies because it's the wise thing to do, legally and by most standards of good business ethics. Since you like stating the "facts" that you are so sure of, keep in mind that will help you a great deal should you ever find yourself in court, brought up on a slander charge. You just state the "facts" and then watch those "facts" kind of get twisted around, melted into shapeless blobs and such, when a good prosecuting attorney gets you on the stand.

I'm not out to get into a back and forth exchange here. You do what you want, and I'll do likewise. Just don't go intimating that those of us who avoid putting down other companies do so out of fear of reprisal and/or treatment, in kind, by others. That is a royal crock of :censored:.

By the odds, you'll be fine saying whatever you like about your competition. As it's been said, this is a free country. Problem is, it's also an increasingly litigious country, and that one time you put down the company that decides to sue you------Well, you know the story.

 

[mckeetree]

Too bad for the old guy. You don't know me, so we're cool, but I assure you that nobody would want to try to "slap" any part of me down. I avoid bad-rapping other companies because it's the wise thing to do, legally and by most standards of good business ethics. Since you like stating the "facts" that you are so sure of, keep in mind that will help you a great deal should you ever find yourself in court, brought up on a slander charge. You just state the "facts" and then watch those "facts" kind of get twisted around, melted into shapeless blobs and such, when a good prosecuting attorney gets you on the stand.

I'm not out to get into a back and forth exchange here. You do what you want, and I'll do likewise. Just don't go intimating that those of us who avoid putting down other companies do so out of fear of reprisal and/or treatment, in kind, by others. That is a royal crock of :censored:.

By the odds, you'll be fine saying whatever you like about your competition. As it's been said, this is a free country. Problem is, it's also an increasingly litigious country, and that one time you put down the company that decides to sue you------Well, you know the story.

First off the kind of people that do the bad work avoid court rooms for the most part if there is any way they can. Most of them are in trouble of some kind to start with. A lot of them have been sued by home owners and of course they were no shows. And no offense but I don't think you have a good understanding of what it takes to go anywhere with a slander suit in Texas. I am not a lawyer but I am no stranger to a court room either. And you are right about you doing things the way you want and me doing things the way I want. I will stay up here and stick with my "facts". As far as the crock goes that is your opinion and you are welcome to it. But there are more people than me in this industry that share my opinion on that particular subject.

 

[weenieroaster]

I would have told her they are known to do terrible work if that is the fact..

That's just the point.....fact or not, and no accusation, but the way you express that sounds like it might be heresay. Might that be something you picked up from a guy who heard it from his nephew, etc? The lady seems like she has already made up her mind. Just saying, "Yes, there are all kinds of folks out there doing this work", seems like a good response to me. Some people are satisfied with bad work, if it meets their budget.

 

[mckeetree]

That's just the point.....fact or not, and no accusation, but the way you express that sounds like it might be heresay. Might that be something you picked up from a guy who heard it from his nephew, etc? The lady seems like she has already made up her mind. Just saying, "Yes, there are all kinds of folks out there doing this work", seems like a good response to me. Some people are satisfied with bad work, if it meets their budget.

Well don't you think I have enough sense to not repeat something about another tree service I heard from some guy who heard it from his nephew. You are missing the whole thing here. I am talking about (and you know I can't name names here) a company in Athens,Texas that does trimming with spikes on. I have pictures of them doing it. They do it all the time. I am talking about a tree guy in Dallas, Texas who has cut four trees down on houses that I know of. I was down the street and witnessed one of them. I am talking about a guy at Cedar Creek Lake, Texas that takes deposits and then never does the work. He does it mostly to old people. I have personal knowledge of him doing it and he does it frequently. These are all facts. Am I going to keep my mouth shut if somebody asked me about these type guys that I know for sure about? H3ll no I'm not. But if any of you feel you need to keep quiet, if you feel like it's not a good idea to say anything, if you are afraid of getting sued, then stay quiet. Not me.

 

[weenieroaster]

Ok, I can agree, there may come a point where you can't stay quiet about it, and I think I said somewhere that a point of discrimination with regard to commenting about other people's work, is whether you have yourself directly seen the rules, so to speak, or common sense, violated. How, or when you speak up just calls for maturity, one has to be their own boss on that. You are confident with your own take on the matter, I'm cool with that.

 

[Lawnmowerboy48]

Don't tell them who is bad, just tell them who is good in the area.

 

[mckeetree]

Don't tell them who is bad, just tell them who is good in the area.

Your space ship will be back to get you soon. In the mean time try to blend in.

 

[rbtree]

I sort of want to clarify what I said here......

I'll readily give my opinion when asked about whether treework is good or bad. I don't/won't offer my opinion about the work a specific company or trimmer does, unless I have a good knowledge of their practices.

If they're good, I readily tell the person asking that. There are only a few companies around here that I would recommend. There are lots I wouldn't let near my trees, and there are lots I know very little about.

If they're bad, I simply say "I wouldn't choose them to trim my trees, but who you choose is up to you."

If I don't have knowledge of the company in question, it's easy to say "I don't know enough about them to offer an opinion.

Badmouthing your competition won't get you anywhere, but trying to train people to recognize the difference between good work and bad work sure will.

Very well said, ddl.....

I have to agree with your points.....I do similar things...and, from time to time, do give my opinions of a couple companies in my area.....I do need to be tactful....and careful..for sure.

Hey, I like your company name. Here's my good friend Scott's website--he runs one of the very best consulting arborist firms anywhere www.treesolutions.net

 

[rbtree]

Well don't you think I have enough sense to not repeat something about another tree service I heard from some guy who heard it from his nephew. I am talking about a guy at Cedar Creek Lake, Texas that takes deposits and then never does the work. He does it mostly to old people. I have personal knowledge of him doing it and he does it frequently. These are all facts.

if you are afraid of getting sued, then stay quiet. Not me.

Ha, and there's a guy who may have had to leave this area..I'll name the bastard, who has repeatedly commited that offense that should be a crime and punishable by jail and restitution. Cedars Tree Service. He has repeatedly taken deposits, as much as $2000, done little or no work, and run off. Was even on TV. Documented!

And another idiot, who I won't name, but I have badmouthed to a couple customers. He has full page ads, has an account with the state run workmans' comp fund, but pays his workers cash. (or did) Documented. Confirmed just an hour ago when a fella who has worked for me a bit told me that he turned the fool in last winter...and he was caught red-handed...Same fool hired a worker of mine for one storm job, just two months ago. They needed a third hand, so Dave brought his girlfriend---Dave had the evening job done in 2.5 hours, but 5 hours total time awaywith the long travel, and they had to get a babysitter for $50.....The fool wanted to give Heather $50, actually had the gall to say that no woman was worth $100...... I'd have cleaned the low life's clock. And, he paid Dave $300, but overcharged the customer $2500....Heard the prick drives a trike with a 350 Chev..wears muscle shorts..and boasts that he has the biggest chip truck. This same little man with small penis complex hired me to do a job for him back in about 1990. He was getting into tree work, but at the time, knew NOTHING. He still doesn't...

 

[weenieroaster]

Ha, and there's a guy who may have had to leave this area..I'll name the bastard, who has repeatedly commited that offense that should be a crime and punishable by jail and restitution. Cedars Tree Service. He has repeatedly taken deposits, as much as $2000, done little or no work, and run off. Was even on TV. Documented!

And another idiot, who I won't name, but I have badmouthed to a couple customers. He has full page ads, has an account with the state run workmans' comp fund, but pays his workers cash. (or did) Documented. Confirmed just an hour ago when a fella who has worked for me a bit told me that he turned the fool in last winter...and he was caught red-handed...Same fool hired a worker of mine for one storm job, just two months ago. They needed a third hand, so Dave brought his girlfriend---Dave had the evening job done in 2.5 hours, but 5 hours total time awaywith the long travel, and they had to get a babysitter for $50.....The fool wanted to give Heather $50, actually had the gall to say that no woman was worth $100...... I'd have cleaned the low life's clock. And, he paid Dave $300, but overcharged the customer $2500....Heard the prick drives a trike with a 350 Chev..wears muscle shorts..and boasts that he has the biggest chip truck. This same little man with small penis complex hired me to do a job for him back in about 1990. He was getting into tree work, but at the time, knew NOTHING. He still doesn't...

In countries with borderline economies, where there isn't so much wealth to provide such an abundance of work, people like you describe would soon be out of business. The bad companies with marginal reputations are the first to bite the dust when the going gets tight. In Emma Lazarus’ famous poem about the statue of liberty and America,

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore."

She should have included, "And your flakes and rip-off artists".

 

[tree MDS]

Too bad for the old guy. You don't know me, so we're cool, but I assure you that nobody would want to try to "slap" any part of me down. I avoid bad-rapping other companies because it's the wise thing to do, legally and by most standards of good business ethics. Since you like stating the "facts" that you are so sure of, keep in mind that will help you a great deal should you ever find yourself in court, brought up on a slander charge. You just state the "facts" and then watch those "facts" kind of get twisted around, melted into shapeless blobs and such, when a good prosecuting attorney gets you on the stand.

I'm not out to get into a back and forth exchange here. You do what you want, and I'll do likewise. Just don't go intimating that those of us who avoid putting down other companies do so out of fear of reprisal and/or treatment, in kind, by others. That is a royal crock of :censored:.

By the odds, you'll be fine saying whatever you like about your competition. As it's been said, this is a free country. Problem is, it's also an increasingly litigious country, and that one time you put down the company that decides to sue you------Well, you know the story.

I'd like to go to the courtroom and see the pansified tree services duke it out, lol-"your honor he called me names", lol.

 

[Scots Climber]

I do not buy into this mentality.

Just because you own a business and your in-laws need that type of work done does not in any way make you the best man for the job.

And just because you do that kind of work it does not make you the best in the business either... there will always be someone better than you at doing something. If they are more comfortable doing business with someone else that is entirely their prerogative.

Doing business with family is bad business to begin with.

I appreciate your point, however, the only reason they chose another company is because they are selling the house and needed the work done sooner than my extremely busy schedule would allow.

Anyway, I spent a couple of hours yesterday afternoon rectifying the situation and splitting the firewood.

As a few other people have said, I fully believe that if another company does poor, unprofessional and expensive work they should be highlighted, how else are potential clients able to make informed decisions regarding tree work.

The company in question here have a flash, professional looking website, bucket truck, F450 chiptruck/Vermeer and 5 groundies to 1 cutter...

...They talk the talk, but cannot or possibly more accurately do not walk the walk. I am not going to make the mistake of naming anyone personally again on this site and I have never named anyone personally to a client, however we need to devise some sort of rating system to give naive homeowners a starting point.

Every time I quote I take ALL of my certificates and 4-5 references.

 

[TreeBot]

In countries with borderline economies, where there isn't so much wealth to provide such an abundance of work, people like you describe would soon be out of business. The bad companies with marginal reputations are the first to bite the dust when the going gets tight.

Or maybe the guys that play and pay by the rules go out of business. The most financially successful tree companies I know of pay cash to get around work-comp and spike prunes (even the ones with ISA logos in their yellow pages ads).

 

[Scots Climber]

Did you get any photos of the inferior tree work?

Yes I did, although I still use a 35mm, so as soon as I have them developed and put onto disc I'll post them for you.

 

[treemandan]

Or maybe the guys that play and pay by the rules go out of business. The most financially successful tree companies I know of pay cash to get around work-comp and spike prunes (even the ones with ISA logos in their yellow pages ads).

That's is what I have been saying ever since I joined the forum.
Sucessful? Does that mean 6 crews and ads in the book for 5 counties? Yup.

 

[murphy4trees]

When looking at work, I will often ask if the client if they are getting other estimates, or if they have had other prices ... Sometimes it becomes clear that they have a lower price and are going with it.. I will almost always ask who gave them the price and how much it is... Mostly just to kepp up with the local market conditions... though if the job involves pruning, and they are contracting with a certain few companies, I will warn them about that these guys do inferior pruning work (some really bad)... And highly recommend against using them for the job, even if they don't hire me.. If the company does good work, I assure them that they are dealing with a good contractor and they should get a good job... I think that is a way of being of service to the client, even though they are not contracting my service.

There is one guy from out of town, that comes in and elevates every tree on the property. Others will spike and make big cuts on the trunk, and there are still a few topprs out there, but not so many anymore... I ask who did the work when I see butchery, so I know who's doing what out there. I had a climber, who claims he's worked for 40 different tree companies over the years say, I was one of two that "really cared" about pruning... everybody else was just into production...