John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
I had a guy pull up my driveway on Sunday and hand me a flyer for an out of area company. I called him asked if he was one of those gaffing hacks from Minni-soda and politely told him where to go.
Door knocking -Soliciting
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treevet
Addicted to ArboristSite
We have an ordinance against solicitation door to door. Few weeks ago my wife and I followed a crew of 3 that parked near our house and took to knocking on doors with a big stack of fliers.
I called the cops.....they will do something....no show.....called them again and again from different locations and id'd where they were and gave license number of beater pickup and description of hacks.....no show.
So next UFB meeting where the city manager has taken to showing up at all our meetings because they want to suck up the EAB treatment bucks, I embarrassed him in front of 7 members and some guests with the story after they all are crying about hacked up trees in town. He followed me into the parking lot and told me if it happens just to call him personally and he will handle it.
They cry about hacked up trees and they have these guys driving down 50 miles to knock on doors in this little suburb. Then they wonder about all the recent break ins and robberies and cars broken into which never happened before this as they were all over town during the hurricane last year..
I called the cops.....they will do something....no show.....called them again and again from different locations and id'd where they were and gave license number of beater pickup and description of hacks.....no show.
So next UFB meeting where the city manager has taken to showing up at all our meetings because they want to suck up the EAB treatment bucks, I embarrassed him in front of 7 members and some guests with the story after they all are crying about hacked up trees in town. He followed me into the parking lot and told me if it happens just to call him personally and he will handle it.
They cry about hacked up trees and they have these guys driving down 50 miles to knock on doors in this little suburb. Then they wonder about all the recent break ins and robberies and cars broken into which never happened before this as they were all over town during the hurricane last year..
mckeetree
Addicted to ArboristSite
I started a little consumer education drive about door knockers and fly by nights some years back and it has helped to an extent. Had a Jim Wallace call yesterday with a half finished job from Oct. I guess my consumer information never made it to him. He seemed like a nice guy and gave us the job. We had some gypsies move in here from up north somewhere about 15 years ago that would go door to door bugging people to let them mow or trim trees. If you made the mistake of hiring them they cased your place out and tried to steal stuff. Finally a hurricane hit that fall and the next day they were all gone chasing that. They were some tough devils though. I remember seeing a guy hit one so hard it actually, and I'm not making this up, lifted him up off the ground and slammed him back hard against the wall outside Pizza Hut. The sucker got up and he hit him again and same thing. Up again same thing. He would sorta try to fight back but that first punch had him ALL screwed up. I finally got in the middle of that deal and talked the guy into not hitting him again because he was just standing there beating the ###### to death one punch at a time.
treevet
Addicted to ArboristSite
Damn, lucky for both of them you broke that up.
ArborSmithNw
ArboristSite Operative
So just to toss in my two cents... not that it matters! :0)
Door knocking to me plays a very important part in marketing my outfit & cuttting overhead.
I know of at least 5 other owners of services that sit around with their size tens kicked up waiting for the phone to ring..
Correction, make that 2 other owners, the other 3 have now shut down because of their high yellow page ad costs and minimal results have led to their demise.
Why, if you are reputable, safe, and honest wouldn't you approach those in need of obvious service? Don't you think that a certain number of people have no clue about what proper care for their trees is all about? And how would they ever learn? They wouldn't. They would wait for a catastrophic failure and then run to the internet or yellow pages & call. A ton of good that would do if you HAPPENED to be the one out of 962 services listed that they called. You get one job out of the client.
Knock on that door, alert them to the issue & gain a client (referals) for life. That is if they can trust you.
I get a kick out of the guys that are so anti door knock. I honestly feel like its more a self confidence issue with them (let the hate mail begin) and they are too nervous to even try. Or too high on their laurels. Either way, its ego.
I personally make a game of it. I don't go home until I have knocked on thirty doors a day in between my set appointments. More often than not I get my set appointments to tell me who is more likely to hire than not, making it even easier to earn another client.
It's the same day in and day out. And it yields VERY well.
So to all you nay-sayers, keep on throwing yer' hard earned dollars at big yellow books that help keep my furnace filter from rattling, I'll keep on intoducing myself to your clients!
(and trust me, my clients don't get the "craigslist" special when they work with me, hacks are hacks and they will always be out there)
Door knocking to me plays a very important part in marketing my outfit & cuttting overhead.
I know of at least 5 other owners of services that sit around with their size tens kicked up waiting for the phone to ring..
Correction, make that 2 other owners, the other 3 have now shut down because of their high yellow page ad costs and minimal results have led to their demise.
Why, if you are reputable, safe, and honest wouldn't you approach those in need of obvious service? Don't you think that a certain number of people have no clue about what proper care for their trees is all about? And how would they ever learn? They wouldn't. They would wait for a catastrophic failure and then run to the internet or yellow pages & call. A ton of good that would do if you HAPPENED to be the one out of 962 services listed that they called. You get one job out of the client.
Knock on that door, alert them to the issue & gain a client (referals) for life. That is if they can trust you.
I get a kick out of the guys that are so anti door knock. I honestly feel like its more a self confidence issue with them (let the hate mail begin) and they are too nervous to even try. Or too high on their laurels. Either way, its ego.
I personally make a game of it. I don't go home until I have knocked on thirty doors a day in between my set appointments. More often than not I get my set appointments to tell me who is more likely to hire than not, making it even easier to earn another client.
It's the same day in and day out. And it yields VERY well.
So to all you nay-sayers, keep on throwing yer' hard earned dollars at big yellow books that help keep my furnace filter from rattling, I'll keep on intoducing myself to your clients!
(and trust me, my clients don't get the "craigslist" special when they work with me, hacks are hacks and they will always be out there)
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ozzy42
Addicted to ArboristSite
:agree2:
Nothing wrong with an honest man looking for work.IMO.
I know of a few tree guys that have their big ads in the phone book ,along with the other 2 dozen ads, and are home sitting on their tushes complaining about having no work.
Everyone that knocks on a door ,or just leaves a card in one as I do is not a hack.
Just as somebody with a full page ad can be the biggest crooked hack their is.No credentials are required to take out an ad.
I have quite a few repeat clients that have used me for years ,and it all started with a card left in their door.
BTW,My lawn guy put his card in my door 3 years ago.
He does a great job and for a price that is only a bit more than it would cost me to do it myself ,when you add everything up.
Nothing wrong with an honest man looking for work.IMO.
I know of a few tree guys that have their big ads in the phone book ,along with the other 2 dozen ads, and are home sitting on their tushes complaining about having no work.
Everyone that knocks on a door ,or just leaves a card in one as I do is not a hack.
Just as somebody with a full page ad can be the biggest crooked hack their is.No credentials are required to take out an ad.
I have quite a few repeat clients that have used me for years ,and it all started with a card left in their door.
BTW,My lawn guy put his card in my door 3 years ago.
He does a great job and for a price that is only a bit more than it would cost me to do it myself ,when you add everything up.
boo
ArboristSite Operative
Hoefully they know what league they're in when attempting the ass kicking.
Sad...
If a person can't speak clearly, and confident, with education...
if they look like a bum or a dopehead, carry themselves like a crook or hack, then maybe they should not sell door to door.
(Hide behind a sign or phone call)
I have had 5 different yellow page ads some years ago....I only got 2 calls which only 1 job I got for the whole year from posting in 5 books. It would be dumb to try to advertise that way again in the same areas.
I have not used signs for well over a year.
I have done door to door 3 different days, over a 16 month period.
Turn out> we get 4 out of 5 jobs solicited....
we don't work for beer, (we don't drink) then one job leads to another.(word of mouth)
The ones that cry that it's shamefull to door knock, I could probably buy and sell them and their equipment many times over.
I am a certified arborist, insured, experienced, equipped.
They meet me, they like me, they trust me, they hire me.
We are good at what we do, the hacks can't compete.
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ArborSmithNw
ArboristSite Operative
Well put Boo.
Here is my simple recipe to a SOLID 2 month backlog of $2K days all through the winter...
A clean, modest, late model truck, without the 8" lift & $4,000 wheels & blacked out windows that so many of the ArborEgoists tend to fancy.
Clean shaven, clean & untorn clothes, no hats or sunglasses.
A solid knowledge of our industry & how it works... with full proof of current liability & workmans comp stapled to the written proposal.
So again, all the guys that think door knocking is for hacks, good luck surviving the current economy, I'll buy your equipment .52 cents on the dollar come January.
Here is my simple recipe to a SOLID 2 month backlog of $2K days all through the winter...
A clean, modest, late model truck, without the 8" lift & $4,000 wheels & blacked out windows that so many of the ArborEgoists tend to fancy.
Clean shaven, clean & untorn clothes, no hats or sunglasses.
A solid knowledge of our industry & how it works... with full proof of current liability & workmans comp stapled to the written proposal.
So again, all the guys that think door knocking is for hacks, good luck surviving the current economy, I'll buy your equipment .52 cents on the dollar come January.
treevet
Addicted to ArboristSite
My town was saturated with sleeze doorknockers last fall that drove 50 miles down from another town to take advantage of a hurricane. There are plenty of services in this city to handle the work load. It is against local law to knock on doors to solicit work in my town. Why?....
Last year they went thru and told residents they had emerald ash borer and most times they did not even have ash trees. They crashed other trees and property while felling trees that should have been dismantled. There was a huge increase in break ins and thefts that some convictions pointed at the solicitors.
My wife ran into a friend that had an elm with ded removed and I had been their service for 30 years prior to that. She was asking my wife to have me price the stump (20 foot by 4 foot dia.) removal. My wife asked her why she didn't call me like usual. Her answer was all these crews were all over the neighborhood claiming the lowest prices ever and everyone was buying. I was too busy to even notice. She said the crew said they needed paid now and they would be back tomorrow and finish up. That was a year ago.
This stump is full of metal and in a deck area and huge and worth more to remove than the tree itself. 2 of these crews have aliases as they have 3 different names for the same company.
They spike all over everything, knock on doors after dark take advantage of senior citizens, park on residential streets in violation over night and generally make our profession look like the scam it used to be portrayed as in the media.
Last year they went thru and told residents they had emerald ash borer and most times they did not even have ash trees. They crashed other trees and property while felling trees that should have been dismantled. There was a huge increase in break ins and thefts that some convictions pointed at the solicitors.
My wife ran into a friend that had an elm with ded removed and I had been their service for 30 years prior to that. She was asking my wife to have me price the stump (20 foot by 4 foot dia.) removal. My wife asked her why she didn't call me like usual. Her answer was all these crews were all over the neighborhood claiming the lowest prices ever and everyone was buying. I was too busy to even notice. She said the crew said they needed paid now and they would be back tomorrow and finish up. That was a year ago.
This stump is full of metal and in a deck area and huge and worth more to remove than the tree itself. 2 of these crews have aliases as they have 3 different names for the same company.
They spike all over everything, knock on doors after dark take advantage of senior citizens, park on residential streets in violation over night and generally make our profession look like the scam it used to be portrayed as in the media.
ArborSmithNw
ArboristSite Operative
Which absolutely without a doubt the dirtbags are still out there.
We certainly have them here in Oregon. Point being though, if I can't approach a potential client with needs (in good faith & with integrity) then whats the point in being in business?
Must I pay an extra $4,000 a month to advertise to survive? That does not serve the client either, that cost gets factored into their proposal after all.
Like someone mentioned above, scabs are scabs & crooks are crooks. They can pay Verizon & Dex the same way I can.
I can prove my credentials every minute of the day, and anybody that attemps to directly market those in need should do so as well to avoid accusations of crookedness.
We certainly have them here in Oregon. Point being though, if I can't approach a potential client with needs (in good faith & with integrity) then whats the point in being in business?
Must I pay an extra $4,000 a month to advertise to survive? That does not serve the client either, that cost gets factored into their proposal after all.
Like someone mentioned above, scabs are scabs & crooks are crooks. They can pay Verizon & Dex the same way I can.
I can prove my credentials every minute of the day, and anybody that attemps to directly market those in need should do so as well to avoid accusations of crookedness.
treevet
Addicted to ArboristSite
Just as the dirtbags have dirtied the profession of arboriculture they have also soiled the technique of doorknocking. Like I said earlier in this post, back when I started in the late 60's early 70's national companies like Bartlett sent out salesmen to get 40 to 60 contacts in a day. They were very professional and like you very successful.
Now the dirtbags are the majority of the salesmen as in everything else they took advantage of a situation, took it past a positive to a negative.
I understand your perspective but you have to understand others not wanting to be perceived along with the lowlife and choosing to sit on the couch rather than being lumped with them.
Me, I choose to solicit by phone or fliers with a website, credentials, and a very established business with references to follow up with once I get a foot in the door.
Now the dirtbags are the majority of the salesmen as in everything else they took advantage of a situation, took it past a positive to a negative.
I understand your perspective but you have to understand others not wanting to be perceived along with the lowlife and choosing to sit on the couch rather than being lumped with them.
Me, I choose to solicit by phone or fliers with a website, credentials, and a very established business with references to follow up with once I get a foot in the door.
ArborSmithNw
ArboristSite Operative
Sure, I certainly see the other side as well in regards to not being grouped in, but working at fixing the perception seems a better option vs. banning it. It only bothers me to hear guys crying about no work when there is effort that can be made to fix the situation. Its especially sad to see when employees are affected by the lack of work.
At this point, I could cease knocking all together and get by, but I enjoy it way too much. To me its more a study of human nature. You certainly get to meet all walks of life.
Cheers!
mckeetree
Addicted to ArboristSite
mckeetree
Addicted to ArboristSite
Good God. It's hard to find a comment for that little morsel.
ozarktreeman
ArboristSite Operative
The real scam is that reporter girl trying to wear those pumps.
Man I know this is old #### but you make me laugh my a$$ off.
ArborSmithNw
ArboristSite Operative
Hard time finding a comment for what, the fact that as a professional I enjoy my career of educating people about their trees so that uninsured scabs don't stick it to them once they do need the service?
I try to redefine our industry on a daily basis, fending off the misconceptions that anyone with a pick up truck & chainsaw is a "tree guy".
I also cold call builders, disaster restoration companies, business park managers, golf courses, parks departments etc etc etc... I belong to home builders groups, real estate groups, general lead groups etc etc etc...
I enjoy & progress the field I have spent 16 years in, yet you fail to find a comment for my marketing morsel.
Pardon my snideness, being the newbie & all I am not trying to make to big of waves & am not trying to disrespect others, I just feel strongly about my ethics.
I try to redefine our industry on a daily basis, fending off the misconceptions that anyone with a pick up truck & chainsaw is a "tree guy".
I also cold call builders, disaster restoration companies, business park managers, golf courses, parks departments etc etc etc... I belong to home builders groups, real estate groups, general lead groups etc etc etc...
I enjoy & progress the field I have spent 16 years in, yet you fail to find a comment for my marketing morsel.
Pardon my snideness, being the newbie & all I am not trying to make to big of waves & am not trying to disrespect others, I just feel strongly about my ethics.
treevet
Addicted to ArboristSite
I can see the cold calls to business entities but the residential stuff is, well....just plain rude. What makes you assume the homeowner needs or even wants your input?
In the sanctity of their home the doorbell rings. The dogs go wild and the dad cannot hear the ball game, the daughter cannot hear the boyfriend, the wife is cooking dinner and cannot leave a boiling pot.... "Who the hell is it....is it the religious people or the tree guys?"
"Its the damn tree guys again"...."Are they leaving?" "no, they are just standing there".......
In the meantime the treeguy is standing out there thinking ....hey people come to the front door all the time...this is ok....(not really, others are expected and welcomed...you're not)
So after a while you leave and move on to the next victim convincing yourself that they weren't home....or in the shower....or the stereo was too loud to hear your repeated knocking and or doorbell ringing.
How come the plumber, the painter, the a/c guy, the roofer, the carpet guy isn't banging on the door imposing their perceived opinion of how and who should provide their services?
Manners
In the sanctity of their home the doorbell rings. The dogs go wild and the dad cannot hear the ball game, the daughter cannot hear the boyfriend, the wife is cooking dinner and cannot leave a boiling pot.... "Who the hell is it....is it the religious people or the tree guys?"
"Its the damn tree guys again"...."Are they leaving?" "no, they are just standing there".......
In the meantime the treeguy is standing out there thinking ....hey people come to the front door all the time...this is ok....(not really, others are expected and welcomed...you're not)
So after a while you leave and move on to the next victim convincing yourself that they weren't home....or in the shower....or the stereo was too loud to hear your repeated knocking and or doorbell ringing.
How come the plumber, the painter, the a/c guy, the roofer, the carpet guy isn't banging on the door imposing their perceived opinion of how and who should provide their services?
Manners
ArborSmithNw
ArboristSite Operative
Simple: I know that the 110' douglas fir 17' off their foundation has laminated root disease & is just a time bomb waiting to happen & THEY DO NOT.
So if they want to get pissy for that, THEY are the ones with the anger issue and don't realize the value of the education I was trying to provide, for free.
I certainly appreciate the barking dog factor, that is the worst, I have 2 myself. Thats why the first words out of my mouth are "my apologies for disturbing the house ma'am"
As far as disturbing the ball game or the deep conversation, there is usually a slim chance of me disturbing that. (i do get your point though) I only market myself during business hours on business days. If the homeowner is the type of person sitting home at 10:47 on a Wednesday morning, chances are I am not even knocking on the door. That type of person usually has a trashy yard, a trashy home & wouldn't spend a nickel anyway. Other things that thwart me are transmissions in driveways, weeds growing out of gutters & brown lawns. These people don't care about upkeep either.
Since I narrowed down by the numbers who my ideal doors are long ago, I usually find affluent housewives & retired or semi retired POLITE ladies (or gentleman) of the house home during the day. Most of the time, due to being clean cut & professional, I can step back and point to exactly what I stopped there for and they at least have a vested enough interest to listen for a second. An actual reason, not snake oil, not $17,000 windows.
A 110' Douglas Fir tree with laminated root rot 17' off a foundation is a true threat, not a fake religion or a fancy upgrade.
The anger, which you elude to, has been bred into us. We as a culture do all we can to shut off communication with each other & find reasons not to interact. I get a kick out of those people who are over the top pissed off that I just "disturbed their kingdom". I have the proper responses to reverse their anger and point out that they are just being #######s & I was only trying to help. They usually turn out to be the best clients too. Those folks and the ones that find the need to post No Solicitors signs, 9 out of 10 times I get a signed contract with those people.
So go ahead and get angry at an honest working man, he'll be walking off your porch laughing at you because of your anti-social behavior.
He'll also be laughing at the fact that the socially inept HO will be thumbing through the yellow pages at 3 in the morning that winter and paying DOUBLE to that yellow page outfit so he can cover his marketing costs.
But we consider that "better service"
It boggles me why other arborists would see direct marketing as such a bad thing. Have a little faith in what you do & the service you provide, and understand that you can be proactive instead of just responsive & your client list can grow ten fold.
I would just assume spit on religious solicitors because religion is just mind twisting BS, but will always at least find out what type of service the guy at my door is doing because maybe I do have a need and I can save money if he's working for a neighbor. He is obviously interested in bettering his company and building his brand with footwork & decent service, not just a credit card for an annual ad.
But again, scammers are scammers, scabs are scabs. I can't control the thieves out there, only my own valuable service.
treevet
Addicted to ArboristSite
Come on Arborsmith....how many times have you called a homeowner an azzwhole (I assume this is what is represented by the #'s) and they "become your best client and 9 times out 10 sign the contract?
In my upper middle class town it is illegal to knock on doors. Why....privacy. Where else can you find it anymore besides in your proverbial castle. You are invading that. You make it sound like you are running a charity. You may spot an impending hazard on occasion, but more often than not you are "disturbing the peace" not in the capacity of roof rescuer but rather just plain to stuff Mr. ArborSmith's pockets with green stuff. Most of the time you are gonna have to go fishing all over someone's yard to find a reason to be there.
This puts a housewife in a very anxious situation given today's climate of crime and terrorism. You have invaded their privacy and now you are gonna go snooping all over their yard while the homeowner waits for this experience to end. Maybe you have movie star looks and maybe you could charm the pants off a virgin and are the fairest most honest person in all the lands... but these "salesmen" (this is what you are....not arborist at this point...they have no idea of your capabilities) are few and far between.
I would love to go knock on doors all over my area if everyone was ok with it and receptive and welcoming but I don't want ANYONE knocking on my door telling me what I need and what I should pay when I haven't asked for it, am not expecting it and ultimately do not know if the whole situation is safe for my well being.
True story I hear every day.....passed a friend of mine (and client) walking through my town yesterday. During conversing naturally the economy came up. He mentioned being slow and said these tree guys are constantly knocking on his door (every door on his street). Just today he says he answers the door (what are you gonna do to get the dork to leave....take a brick to hit them in the head you don't want them there).
The first words he says are.....you got a tree that needs to come down. He replies what tree. Guy points to a 140 foot perfect specimen red oak in back over his roof that we had just pruned last year. My friends says "no it doesn't" then the guy starts to get belligerent (like you said you do) and my friend says get the fk off my property or I'll call the cops.
Delightful encounter ...have you ever had any of these at your home.
In my upper middle class town it is illegal to knock on doors. Why....privacy. Where else can you find it anymore besides in your proverbial castle. You are invading that. You make it sound like you are running a charity. You may spot an impending hazard on occasion, but more often than not you are "disturbing the peace" not in the capacity of roof rescuer but rather just plain to stuff Mr. ArborSmith's pockets with green stuff. Most of the time you are gonna have to go fishing all over someone's yard to find a reason to be there.
This puts a housewife in a very anxious situation given today's climate of crime and terrorism. You have invaded their privacy and now you are gonna go snooping all over their yard while the homeowner waits for this experience to end. Maybe you have movie star looks and maybe you could charm the pants off a virgin and are the fairest most honest person in all the lands... but these "salesmen" (this is what you are....not arborist at this point...they have no idea of your capabilities) are few and far between.
I would love to go knock on doors all over my area if everyone was ok with it and receptive and welcoming but I don't want ANYONE knocking on my door telling me what I need and what I should pay when I haven't asked for it, am not expecting it and ultimately do not know if the whole situation is safe for my well being.
True story I hear every day.....passed a friend of mine (and client) walking through my town yesterday. During conversing naturally the economy came up. He mentioned being slow and said these tree guys are constantly knocking on his door (every door on his street). Just today he says he answers the door (what are you gonna do to get the dork to leave....take a brick to hit them in the head you don't want them there).
The first words he says are.....you got a tree that needs to come down. He replies what tree. Guy points to a 140 foot perfect specimen red oak in back over his roof that we had just pruned last year. My friends says "no it doesn't" then the guy starts to get belligerent (like you said you do) and my friend says get the fk off my property or I'll call the cops.
Delightful encounter ...have you ever had any of these at your home.
mckeetree
Addicted to ArboristSite
Exactly. ArborSmith is a door knocker deluxe that has convinced himself he is not an assclown because of his self perceived high ethics and valuable "service." He better stay up there where he is because around here it is illegal to solicit in the good neighborhoods and the chance of getting the water hose turned on you or the cops called on you are extremely high. My neighbor ran some dumbass off just last Sat. that was trying to tell him he had a sick shrub or something another. Can't these stupid #######s take a hint and leave people alone in their home. The home is where you should at least have a little privacy and peace.
