DR Rapid Fire Rack & Pinion

[CampHamp]

It's obvious that we've got some SS owners out there that love their machines and there are others, like me, who love their DR machines. We're all biased by our experience and investments. However, these recent posts seem false or misleading to me, so thought I should speak up again, even though this thread is now pretty boring from all this type of noise:

First off you'll pay tax on the DR

I just put in a California address and DR charges $0 in sales tax. Maybe they charge in some states - I'm not going to enter them all! I didn't pay tax and my California test showed none as well...

There were some really scathing reviews that said the only redeeming value was DR allowing returns.

I looked at the comments section for the DR (pretty cool when a manufacturer offers such transparency). People buying should read for themselves, but 12 of the 15 reviewers gave 4 or 5 stars and were very positive in many more ways than just the return policy.

 

[harrybeaver]

[/QUOTE]I looked at the comments section for the DR (pretty cool when a manufacturer offers such transparency). People buying should read for themselves, but 12 of the 15 reviewers gave 4 or 5 stars and were very positive in many more ways than just the return policy.[/QUOTE]

You don't learn a whole lot from positive reviews, the negative reviews are more revealing. One of the reviewers talks about their machine not working very well and the manufacturer acknowledging the problem they are experiencing and that they are working out a fix. If the manufacturer was transparent wouldn't they advertise the machine as having a problem and they are working on making it better before you buy.
Anyway I called SS again today and Paul picked up on the second ring this time. We talked about the tax free sales weekend Mass has and he is hoping they do it again this year. He will work on price with anyone buying then to make sure you clear the $2500 tax free limit.
I am sure the DR is a good product and well backed, however I can have a great product that is more proven and more desired for the same money.

 

[sunfish]

I revisited the DR web site and indeed the price is down to $2500 with free shipping and the financing scheme as outlined above. While on the website I read some reviews and was turned off again. There were some really scathing reviews that said the only redeeming value was DR allowing returns.
I don't know how much shipping one of these would be and it will vary for everone based on location but you could get the SS for something like 10% more than the cost of a DR without the teething pains. Personal choice but the saying you get what you pay for seems to be ringing in my ears.

Shipping was under $200 to Missouri 3 years ago.

I just wish I had bought the SS many years ago.

 

[bower4311]

I am sure the DR is a good product and well backed, however I can have a great product that is more proven and more desired for the same money.

This right here. I don't understand how you can get one without tax, I would assume if I walked into a DR dealership that I would get charged tax for the instate purchase. Either way, I have heard things that can be found in this thread about problems with the DR, but I'm yet to see anyone post a major problem with the supersplit.

 

[CampHamp]

You don't learn a whole lot from positive reviews

Can we ignore your positive reviews, too?

This right here. I don't understand how you can get one without tax, I would assume if I walked into a DR dealership that I would get charged tax for the instate purchase.

We're talking about orders for out-of-state shipping, not in-store purchases.

So if you compare all-in cost for the SS jr, then you start at $100 more, then ship it for $200 (sounds low?) + crating ($35) = $335 more. If you want a written guarantee on any potential mechanical issues then spend $250 to get an extra 3-yr warranty for the DR and still have $85 in your pocket for some beer. What kind of warranty with the SS? How do you move that heavy thing around to new piles, anyway? Can I pay after a year of using the SS? Can I send the thing back if I get a lemon and just "want out"? These are real benefits for people, even if the beer sounds like the best one to me right now.

 

[Steve NW WI]

I've got no dog in this fight, but the concept pushed by DR - financing, returnability, free shipping, whatever else, aren't things that will even it out when the dang thing won't work. From members like Sunfish and a host of others, the SS just plain works. I'd rather spend the money on something that works than be a frustrated owner of something that doesn't, but I haven't had to pay for yet.

I guess the same mentality that makes the DR look good, despite having known flaws, is the one that has Made in China stamped on to so many of the things we buy today. I'll save money now, and spend it later when it breaks and I have to replace it. Don't get me wrong, I am guilty of this at times myself, but it's a judgement call we all need to look at whenever we're spending our hard earned money.

 

[harrybeaver]

Can we ignore your positive reviews, too?


I was just trying to point out that hearing about problems people have are more insightful and there certainly seems to be more problems with the DR than the SS on a whole.
It is also bothersome to me to see the DR base model comes with a no name crap engine, it makes me believe that DR will put out an inferior product to lure buyers in with price being their primary concern. I see over the years Paul at SS has continually upgraded the engines, the base models come with Subaru engines which I have found to be excellent and the option of getting a Honda, arguably the best engine in the world. If he is paying attention to his product as this indicates where else has he made improvements?
On a final note I have been looking through Craigslist for over a year and from NJ out to Ohio up through NY to ME there are no supersplits to be found, however in all those areas there are adds from people looking for super splits. I did see an add recently for two DR's both owned by a guy who has a firewood business on Long Island, he didn't like the DR's because they could not split knotty wood. I don't know why he didn't just return them to DR maybe DR wouldn't take them back because he is commercial?

 

[CampHamp]

It is also bothersome to me to see the DR base model comes with a no name crap engine, it makes me believe that DR will put out an inferior product to lure buyers in with price being their primary concern.

For the non-commercial market, I'm sure. Some people want flywheels instead of hydro, but cheap for the twice-a-year user.

I did see an add recently for two DR's both owned by a guy who has a firewood business on Long Island, he didn't like the DR's because they could not split knotty wood. I don't know why he didn't just return them to DR maybe DR wouldn't take them back because he is commercial?

I know someone who would be interested. Please send me the link or post it, I can't find it...

 

[sunfish]

I'm sure the DR is a good machine, but there have been some issues posted here. There has also been confusion in were most of the parts are made.

The Heavy Duty DR being comparable to the Standard (J model) SuperSplit and the Standard DR being sub-standard to the the Standard SS is goin to be very confusing to folks trying to compare the two.

 

[Dozer Man]

I did see an add recently for two DR's both owned by a guy who has a firewood business on Long Island, he didn't like the DR's because they could not split knotty wood. I don't know why he didn't just return them to DR maybe DR wouldn't take them back because he is commercial?

DR has alot shorter warranty and return period for commercial users. I'm sure that is why this guy is selling his instead of returning them.

Did my research just like you, but I have personal experience with buying a "new to the market" product (the speeco speedpro fiasco). I'm not comparing the DR to the speedpro at all, just pointing out that they are both new to the market, and both have had there own issues.

All I know about the DR rapidfire is what I've read here in this thread. If you read this thread carefully, you will find that the original commercial users of the DR have had there fair share of issues. Not to mention, if you search the SS threads, you will find the commercial users that have abandoned the DR ship.

There is alot of information in ArboristSite, all you have to do is look for it!!!

Plus 1 for the SS j-model.

 

[Como]

My DR has split everything I have thrown at it.

Some wood is harder to split than others, but the same nasty wood was a pain using Hydraulic.

I am not Commercial, but I have split 30 cords or so.

You would need someone to spend the same amount of money buying machines from both suppliers to do a fair comparison. From what I have read there is little in it either way.

 

[CampHamp]

DR has alot shorter warranty and return period for commercial users. I'm sure that is why this guy is selling his instead of returning them.

I'm not sure why, but would like to know as well. A friend in upstate NY wants to buy a DR (personal use) and I would like to give him this Craigslist link to see if it's a good deal (I couldn't find it)... harrybeaver - please share that link about the 2 DR splitters for sale. Did he really state that they don't split knotty wood in his sales statement? Really bizarre!

 

[D&B Mack]

I'm not sure why, but would like to know as well. A friend in upstate NY wants to buy a DR (personal use) and I would like to give him this Craigslist link to see if it's a good deal (I couldn't find it)... harrybeaver - please share that link about the 2 DR splitters for sale. Did he really state that they don't split knotty wood in his sales statement? Really bizarre!

Ever since they replaced my rack, it doesn't have the ram-through power it used to. I only put straight grained through it now, faster to do the knotty with the hydraulic.

 

[harrybeaver]

I'm not sure why, but would like to know as well. A friend in upstate NY wants to buy a DR (personal use) and I would like to give him this Craigslist link to see if it's a good deal (I couldn't find it)... harrybeaver - please share that link about the 2 DR splitters for sale. Did he really state that they don't split knotty wood in his sales statement? Really bizarre!

The add is no longer posted. He wasn't offering any bargain, he was asking $2300 ea. When you factor in all the other things you wouldn't get, financing, warranty, return policy etc the $200 discount wasn't worth it.
It was in the add that they were better suited to logs that are not knotty. Off the two one had 10 hours on it the other had less than that.

 

[CampHamp]

The add is no longer posted. He wasn't offering any bargain, he was asking $2300 ea. When you factor in all the other things you wouldn't get, financing, warranty, return policy etc the $200 discount wasn't worth it.
It was in the add that they were better suited to logs that are not knotty. Off the two one had 10 hours on it the other had less than that.

Thanks - I agree $2300 isn't much of a discount. He's lucky to have sold it.

We've had no probs so far (2 yrs - 26 cord) with all the typical stuff we get in New England forests. The knotty stuff is usually softwood for the maple evaporator (hemlock/pine/spruce) and the hardwood usually has less branches/knots anyway. If I can lift it, it has split so far. Long Island (and along any coastline) you get much more wind and pretty gnarly hardwoods (lower branches and twisted trunks), so I can imagine their requirements are different. I bet he gets $300/cord there.

D&B Mack - It sounds like they messed something up when they replaced your rack. If you're running with the same RPMs and your belts are tight, then I'd suspect that there's got to be some new friction. Maybe the rack isn't running perfectly straight or the rollers or plate were seated too tight. When you slide the head out by hand, does it slide out as smooth as before the replacement (you should be feeling the springs more than anything else)? I lube the top of the I beam and the teeth every couple days of use and notice a difference.

 

[D&B Mack]

D&B Mack - It sounds like they messed something up when they replaced your rack. If you're running with the same RPMs and your belts are tight, then I'd suspect that there's got to be some new friction. Maybe the rack isn't running perfectly straight or the rollers or plate were seated too tight. When you slide the head out by hand, does it slide out as smooth as before the replacement (you should be feeling the springs more than anything else)? I lube the top of the I beam and the teeth every couple days of use and notice a difference.

I tried to find the difference but could not. I was thinking they may how changed the tooth ratio of rack and pinion...they were both replaced.

 

[InTheFlow]

My Rapid Fire Pro-XL is in the shop

Well, my newly purchased Rapidfire Pro XL is already in the shop.

I used it for two hours...when it worked it was awesome! I noticed several things happening that I didn't think should be for this expensive of a machine.

It choked bad with cottonwood...would get stuck in the log and I had to use an 8 lb sledge hammer to hit the log. Then the ram would retract. Other times wood slivers would get jammed in there which kept it from returning. Not a slight bind either...I had to hit the thing with a dead blow hammer to get it moving again.

A lot of people say these machines sip gas. Mine drank a tank and had to be re-filled during that two hour session. I'm at a high altitude (6035 feet) and don't have the high alt carb recommended by Subaru yet. Even so, shouldn’t it be doing better than that?

I get a really hard kickback when using this sometimes. It tends to happen at the end of the stroke and since you are holding the handle forward, the kick hits your hand as the handle moves backwards. Imagine what it would feel like if someone took a sledge hammer and hit the lever while you were holding it forward. It hurts a little but is mostly scary.

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I noticed a ‘clang-like’ sound coming from the clutch side of the engine area. Because of that noise and what I felt was poor performance, I decided to take the cover off and investigate a bit. BTW, if you ever have to do it, it is held on by 3 bolts...two at the bottom front and one at the back left. I didn't realize that until I had taken half of the shroud bolts off! :redface:

I'm both shocked and mad at what I found. Yes, sometimes things happen & I understand that. Most people do. But guys, look at how the clutch was bolted on! I expect more from both DR and their machines. I'm not here to bash them either. I have another one of their splitters and only have good things to say about it.

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I never noticed the clutch slipping when it was supposed to. At least, I never noticed it happening and with the cottonwood, it certainly should have. Could that have caused the kickback? They have done some good things too, which I note in the pictures with a ‘Good idea’ message. Not sarcasm, I really think they were well implemented ideas. Even with those couple of positives, the first impression of my splitter is very poor.

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A good warranty and good customer support is great to have. But the whole point of having one is so that you don’t have to take the company up on their offer. I don’t want the hassle of returning the splitter and being out the shipping money. I bought this because I wanted it to be the splitter that lasts for the next 20 years. I may have made a serious mistake. When the splitter is repaired, I’ll have to shell out for a pickup and delivery fee as I had no way of getting it to them.

 

[InTheFlow]

A couple more pictures.

A view of the guide bolts...is this correct?

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A place for improvement:

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[harrybeaver]

Good pictures with comments, really makes it easier to understand the issues you are having. I am surprised at the guide bolts for the rack, seems really cheap. Why not replaceable nylon or brass rollers, they could bring down the tollerances to help eliminate the sway you are experiencing. Also I would question if the rack and pinion are really in alignment with the beam if you are seeing it shift to one side on each stroke. If they are off only a degree or two you would see that on its stroke, not sure if that is adjustable?
On a different note I am still trying to digest the $3000 I will need for a SSHD. I am considering renting out the SS and am wondering about liability? I wonder if I rent it out unmodified would I be held liable for injuries? I have read that people consider these unsafe because they operate so fast but that is the point isn't it?

 

[Dozer Man]

On a different note I am still trying to digest the $3000 I will need for a SSHD. I am considering renting out the SS and am wondering about liability? I wonder if I rent it out unmodified would I be held liable for injuries? I have read that people consider these unsafe because they operate so fast but that is the point isn't it?

When Paul at SS asked how much wood I ever thought I might split in a years time, I told him the max would never go over 50 cord per year, but with an average amount in the 20 cord range. He was pretty adamant that the J-model would be fine for me. I even argued that I would probably go ahead with the HD model. He basically said that he would sell it to me if that is what I wanted, but also asured me that it wasn't necessary.

I have not regretted purchasing the J-model. I especially like having the $450 difference to use for an electric conversion some day.:msp_smile:


I don't know how much wood you intend to split, I just thought I would share this information. Good Luck!!

Edit... My SS is very tame compared to the excessive speed of the SpeedPro I had before. It consumes your attention. And trust me, once you go kinetic, you can't go back!!