Drive link damage when chains pop off modern saws

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For a sprocket nose bar, turn your saw's tension-adjustment screw until the bottoms of the lowest tie straps and cutters come up and contact the bottom of the bar rails, then turn your tension-adjustment screw an additional 1/4 turn.

I use 1/8 turn and not 1/4. I guess when I cut brush and these small things I am currently working on I should tweak it up that full 1/4. I have never cut this much brush before. I am helping a friend clear the lot for building a house and we need it clean for layout and planning. If it were a real job those twigs would be ignored and driven right over with the tractor or skidder. They would never even be given a second thought.
 
I'll confess, that is what I did. Where do I go to get my chainsaw abuser flogging? One quick spin and it dropped right into the track. A few revs and it was warmed up enough to get the perfect tension that I like to have. Adjusting tension on a cold chain is something I do not like to do because once warmed, it often is too loose.

Rant mode on: That chain catch under the bar is a useless part. I already said I had probably over a thousand pop off over my career but never so much as once did I ever have the chain contact my leg, ever. I would love to see any stats that show that was an actual problem.

Kind of like when I was the safety enforcer for my building at work. One day the fire marshall demands all solvent cabinets have self-closing doors. I then pointed out that in over several hundred monthly safety inspections there NEVER was a single case of the doors being cited from being open. Yet the company nurse had something like 18 incident reports of people getting gonked up side the head from cabinets with self-closing doors where their hands slipped and the door closed just as they were looking into the cabinet. Several folks had to get stiches because the lip on the door seal was sharp. That did not deter them and so we had to replace every non-self-closing cabinet, and I got two nice ones for home use for dirt cheap. :D

I just have a suspision that this 'safety feature' is causing more problems than it is solving.
keep in mind tank assemblys are no easy piece to find used and expensive new.With no chain catcher you will eat up a gas tank pretty fast if you toss a lot of chains
 
Here's some tossed chain carnage for you, 261 Olympik clutch cover with most of the bottom broken off.

Most of the cover's I've found on Ebay, etc for this saw look the same way, so it may be a weak spot in the design, but damage from a thrown chain nonetheless.

attachment.php
 
I don't know how many how many hundreds or even thousands of hours I have running saws, but it seems like the op and his friend are throwing a lot of chains. How long have you had that last bar?


Whoops! Didn't realize you are the OP. Are you adjusting for stretch? Chains say they are pre-stretched, but they still stretch.

I'm the other half of the Chain Throwers Anon support group. But it's only happened once so far. :) I'm new to chainsaws, but been around a lot of other professional power tools for years, so I'm not unaccustomed to the Way of The Tool, just not chainsaws. I threw one chain last weekend - my first. Ever. It was a new chain, and I had tensioned it before use, but should have been watching the tension more closely as it was brand new (something I knew from reading here, but didn't apply well enough). It was on a small 1-2" tree that was in a mess of other stuff that I had thought was going to be a potential pinch hazard, but it still had to be cut. Well it got cut and pinched the chain and threw it. That was when I found the issue with driver dings and I didn't have a backup chain with me (another lesson). New to me, of course. Reasons it happened: 1. probably too little tension after a bit of use on a new chain. 2. small tree/pinch grab etc. I'll work on better tensioning now :)

But the question my friend the OP has is still a legitimate one. Does the chain catcher contribute to this damage? I am a big advocate of safety gear, but I also know that liability concerns can drive companies to do things at times that are safety related but are not really worth the trouble they cause. Being new to all this, I'm asking the same question. Sounds like several of you are saying without it, especially on the new saws with their much higher rpms, you risk at least severe saw damage and possibly injury. Makes sense. But just asking the question is not a bad thing, now is it? :confused:

Now it's almost Sat, so I get to try it again, learning from last week... :chainsaw:


-Dave
 
Here's some tossed chain carnage for you, 261 Olympik clutch cover with most of the bottom broken off.

Most of the cover's I've found on Ebay, etc for this saw look the same way, so it may be a weak spot in the design, but damage from a thrown chain nonetheless.

attachment.php

I am not trying to be difficult here, but I have seen that kind of damage on a few saws and I can say in all the cases that I saw it (on Homelites) I knew for 100% certainty what caused it (see below).

Now that said, how can the side of the cover break off if the chain is being thrown off the bar? How can a chain develop that much side force to crack and break that metal? The forces of a chain coming off is exactly parallel and in alignment with the axis of the bar. So damage shold be behind the bar under the saw. I find it hard to believe that a chain could jump off the track, swing over ~3/4-1" and break off that much metal.

I do know with my old Homelites if they got banged around in the back of a truck with a peavey or a splitting maul or two, then those covers snapped right off like twigs and the damage would look just about like that. Or if they got dropped on their side onto any kind of hard surface. Of course I never did that to my saws, no never did that, no personal experience here. :rolleyes:
 
CC, the pic I posted is off a project saw torn apart in the basement. This weekend I'll get a pic of my 271, fully assembled. I can assure you that that chain cover looks similar to the one in my pic, and that the chain caused it, because it happened while SOMEONE (who shall remain nameless) was using it.

Think on this, your straight line logic doesn't hold water. If the chain were still traveling in a straight line, inline with the bar, it would still be ON the bar, not tossed. Every chain I've tossed has come off the bar and wound up at the powerhead, not off the powerhead and still on the bar. That energy is hitting something, and I'll guess that magnesium will be more brittle with age, as aluminum does, and voila' broken clutch cover.

IIRC, the chain catcher on these was mounted to the side cover, which would be a good bit weaker than if mounted to the engine. This could be a contributing factor here.

On the original subject, I'm in the higher chain speed train of thought. I never had a damaged drive link on the older slower saws, and the first time it happened to me was on my 7300 Dolmar. I just swapped chains, and dressed up the dinged chain with a light sanding from a die grinder with a sanding pad on it.
 
Think on this, your straight line logic doesn't hold water. If the chain were still traveling in a straight line, inline with the bar, it would still be ON the bar, not tossed. Every chain I've tossed has come off the bar and wound up at the powerhead, not off the powerhead and still on the bar. That energy is hitting something, and I'll guess that magnesium will be more brittle with age, as aluminum does, and voila' broken clutch cover.

Your logic makes sense and I was not thinking that once it was popped then it would travel in the opposite way it was pushed off the bar. Makes sense.

And if your nameless friend can vouch for that damage then I guess we can trust him. ;)

The old Homelite XL12s and 925s that I used had covers that were so brittle it was amazing they lasted at all. I dropped one on a concrete floor once in my basement while putting a new chain on and the cover shattered like glass. :mad: They also seemed to get a lot of damage, especially cracks, from being tossed onto the top of a load of wood at the end of the day. I would nestle them down between some blocks so the saws would not come off but the wood would pinch the cover and do damage. When I assembled my large truck for hauling I put a slot in the rack right behind the cab so I could stick the saw bar down into the slot and the powerhead was at the top of the woodpile and in front of the entire load. The saws got far less damage up there and I did not have to get them off the wood before dumping it.
 
The old Homelite XL12s and 925s that I used had covers that were so brittle it was amazing they lasted at all. I dropped one on a concrete floor once in my basement while putting a new chain on and the cover shattered like glass.

Sounds like cast aluminum... badly cast alum. Aluminum does not cast well, especially if you are not midful of the process. Lots of porosity and inclusions that make it weak. But forge it or do something like hot rolling or pressing and it improves greatly.
 
I don't understand how anybody could blame the chain catcher it cant even touch the drivers its on the outside of the loop where the cutters are:givebeer:


How long of bars do you run? The chain will swing around and get tangled up and kinked an all kinds of messed up stuff. I would say most of the dl damage is the sprocket, but there is a lot going on. It depends on where the chain skips off the bar as well.
 
I'm the other half of the Chain Throwers Anon support group. But it's only happened once so far. :) I'm new to chainsaws, but been around a lot of other professional power tools for years, so I'm not unaccustomed to the Way of The Tool, just not chainsaws. I threw one chain last weekend - my first. Ever. It was a new chain, and I had tensioned it before use, but should have been watching the tension more closely as it was brand new (something I knew from reading here, but didn't apply well enough). It was on a small 1-2" tree that was in a mess of other stuff that I had thought was going to be a potential pinch hazard, but it still had to be cut. Well it got cut and pinched the chain and threw it. That was when I found the issue with driver dings and I didn't have a backup chain with me (another lesson). New to me, of course. Reasons it happened: 1. probably too little tension after a bit of use on a new chain. 2. small tree/pinch grab etc. I'll work on better tensioning now :)

But the question my friend the OP has is still a legitimate one. Does the chain catcher contribute to this damage? I am a big advocate of safety gear, but I also know that liability concerns can drive companies to do things at times that are safety related but are not really worth the trouble they cause. Being new to all this, I'm asking the same question. Sounds like several of you are saying without it, especially on the new saws with their much higher rpms, you risk at least severe saw damage and possibly injury. Makes sense. But just asking the question is not a bad thing, now is it? :confused:

Now it's almost Sat, so I get to try it again, learning from last week... :chainsaw:


-Dave

You are right asking the question is not a bad thing at all. Those saplings are the worst for throwing chains, that and limbing under pressure. When you cut through a sapling they like to slide off and take your chain off with it if you don't let off on the throttle or are not on top of it. The catcher is there for good reason. I would use it regardless if it mess the chain up or not.
 
Hmmm. This explains my puzzlement a bit. When I ran a saw on a thinning crew, I was the newby and got the last pick of the saws. The one that I finally ended up running would only run with the chain loose. The saw threw off the chain at least a couple times a day, but no problem, I just slapped it back on and went back to work. That was a 1970 something Mac.

Flash forward to the now. I'v thrown chains on the Barbie Saw and Twinkle. Each time, the drive things were damaged and I had to file them down. The worst one I had to put on reading glasses and use the Dremel to repair.

Twinkle threw a chain one day that thumped me in the thigh pretty good. It missed my chaps but hit the rivet on my Carhartts. No cut, just some inefficient language and a little bruise. Wouldn't you know, there was an audience too?
 
To answer your question, on older saws the drive gear is generally a spur type where the teeth are ridged and run the full width of the gear. On a newer saw the drive gear is usually the rim and drum type where the rim has the ability to float from side to side. When a chain comes off these rim and drum systems there is the possibility it can push the rim to one side then ride on the splines of the drum until the saw is shut down. That is the cause of your problem and when shut down quickly the reason there are only a few drive links effected. PS the chain catch is innocent, so listen to Brad and keep the chain catcher on your saw for safety sake.

I agree. I've had the chain stop solid on the catcher and the damage is caused by the sprocket. Rim sprockets in my experience do tend to cause more damage with a thrown chain but my spur sprocket saw experience is limited to smaller saws with 3/8"LP and gutless 029's.
I just think a rim sprocket has a lot better purchase on the drive links hence more damage when something goes wrong.
 
Figured I'd post a picture of drive link damage, cause everyone needs pics in their life.

As a side note. This chain is off the homemade chainsaw. I did the build thread on here. What I can say, is that the chain never came off. Derailed, or any of that. It ran great until it ceased itself in the bar.

It's possible it could have been caused by no oil. It ran out way faster than I expected, plus I didn't realize that tipping the saw over with the clutch facing up, to inspect it, was draining the oil back through the exhaust tube. (Oil is run by exhaust pressure) It was a learning experience. The saw is made to side cut clutch down anyway.

The main factor that caused the damage, I believe, is mostly being the narrower gage drivers. Its .404/.058 on a 15 hp saw. 10 tooth rim sprocket. I dressed the links back down and will give it another shot.
 

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Figured I'd post a picture of drive link damage, cause everyone needs pics in their life.

As a side note. This chain is off the homemade chainsaw. I did the build thread on here. What I can say, is that the chain never came off. Derailed, or any of that. It ran great until it ceased itself in the bar.

It's possible it could have been caused by no oil. It ran out way faster than I expected, plus I didn't realize that tipping the saw over with the clutch facing up, to inspect it, was draining the oil back through the exhaust tube. (Oil is run by exhaust pressure) It was a learning experience. The saw is made to side cut clutch down anyway.

The main factor that caused the damage, I believe, is mostly being the narrower gage drivers. Its .404/.058 on a 15 hp saw. 10 tooth rim sprocket. I dressed the links back down and will give it another shot.
I would think .063 would be better for that saw anyway.
cool build? 😁
have you inquired on the hotsaw page about special chain that might better handle the higher rpms ?
 
I'll confess, that is what I did. Where do I go to get my chainsaw abuser flogging? One quick spin and it dropped right into the track. A few revs and it was warmed up enough to get the perfect tension that I like to have. Adjusting tension on a cold chain is something I do not like to do because once warmed, it often is too loose.

Rant mode on: That chain catch under the bar is a useless part. I already said I had probably over a thousand pop off over my career but never so much as once did I ever have the chain contact my leg, ever. I would love to see any stats that show that was an actual problem.

Kind of like when I was the safety enforcer for my building at work. One day the fire marshall demands all solvent cabinets have self-closing doors. I then pointed out that in over several hundred monthly safety inspections there NEVER was a single case of the doors being cited from being open. Yet the company nurse had something like 18 incident reports of people getting gonked up side the head from cabinets with self-closing doors where their hands slipped and the door closed just as they were looking into the cabinet. Several folks had to get stiches because the lip on the door seal was sharp. That did not deter them and so we had to replace every non-self-closing cabinet, and I got two nice ones for home use for dirt cheap. :D

I just have a suspision that this 'safety feature' is causing more problems than it is solving.
I have ran a chainsaw for at least 50 years, professionally and on the farm All of my experience has been with a bow saw. Now that they are outlawed I purchased a bar saw. Having the chain come off has always been a common problem for me. Maybe I run the chain a little too loose. That’s how I was taught to keep wear to a minimum. On the new saw I bought, a Husqvarna, if the chain comes off it always damages the drive links, even when the saw was brand new. And for the first time ever I was using my old bow saw this Saturday and when the chain came off it damaged the drive links. I am at a loss.

 

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