I think jazak is a landscape guy, not a truck dealer.
Dump Truck Question...
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I think jazak is a landscape guy, not a truck dealer.
arbor pro
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Does fixed asset depreciation factor into your decision? For me, I run a combination of both older and newer equipment for a number of reasons:
1) I can usually depreciate a piece of equipment for up to 7 years. After the depreciation runs out, I sell it and buy a newer one so I can again claim depreciation. Not being able to depreciate your older equipment can be a big tax downfall if you end up showing a profit at year end. I work with an accountant who does all of my depreciation and keeps me informed as to when I need to make purchases for the sake of depreciation.
2) So long as you keep your older equipment maintained and looking professional, I strongly believe there is nothing wrong with running a 1979 3/4 ton or a 1990 Ford F350 (I have both and will only replace them when I need to for depreciation purposes).
3) The guy trying to sell you on running only new equipment may not have the same business structure as you; therefore, his advice might be well-intended but not applicable. If you only gross a fraction of what he does in a year, you can't necessarily expect to run all new equipment. YOUR equipment purchases have to be commensorate with your business' gross income, overhead and personnel capacity.
4) My advice - if you don't rely upon fixed asset depreciation to help out with year end taxes, there's nothing wrong with running older equipment so long as it doesn't look like crap. Business image is important so, spend a few bucks on making your old truck look nice. There's a big difference between running a 1990 ford with no dents, a nice paint job and professional business graphics vs a 1990 ford that's all dented and rusty and portrays the image to potential clients that your business is barely hanging on by a thread. While this strays from the subject a little, the same goes for your personal appearance. If you're going to fix up your truck but then show up on the jobsite in a holey grease-stained t-shirt looking like you've been living on the streets, you're defeating the whole purpose. Professionalism is in more than the year truck you drive...
1) I can usually depreciate a piece of equipment for up to 7 years. After the depreciation runs out, I sell it and buy a newer one so I can again claim depreciation. Not being able to depreciate your older equipment can be a big tax downfall if you end up showing a profit at year end. I work with an accountant who does all of my depreciation and keeps me informed as to when I need to make purchases for the sake of depreciation.
2) So long as you keep your older equipment maintained and looking professional, I strongly believe there is nothing wrong with running a 1979 3/4 ton or a 1990 Ford F350 (I have both and will only replace them when I need to for depreciation purposes).
3) The guy trying to sell you on running only new equipment may not have the same business structure as you; therefore, his advice might be well-intended but not applicable. If you only gross a fraction of what he does in a year, you can't necessarily expect to run all new equipment. YOUR equipment purchases have to be commensorate with your business' gross income, overhead and personnel capacity.
4) My advice - if you don't rely upon fixed asset depreciation to help out with year end taxes, there's nothing wrong with running older equipment so long as it doesn't look like crap. Business image is important so, spend a few bucks on making your old truck look nice. There's a big difference between running a 1990 ford with no dents, a nice paint job and professional business graphics vs a 1990 ford that's all dented and rusty and portrays the image to potential clients that your business is barely hanging on by a thread. While this strays from the subject a little, the same goes for your personal appearance. If you're going to fix up your truck but then show up on the jobsite in a holey grease-stained t-shirt looking like you've been living on the streets, you're defeating the whole purpose. Professionalism is in more than the year truck you drive...
Mr. Firewood
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has no resale value.... buddy I get offers of twice what I have in that truck ALL the time!
um... hmm I dont know where to begin on this comment... I bought the 1970 Ford for $300 and it needed work, so I spent around $800 total getting the truck "the way I want it".... in the last 5 months I have owned it I have received over a hundred compliments on the old iron and sence I deal with alot of older customers it always sparks a conversation and 95% of the time I get the Job (snow plowing and lawn work) granted I have a 2001 Dodge Durango and a 2005 PT Cruiser but 95% of the time I am in that "old relic" as you put it. it may have a big block but I still get 12-15 MPG if I dont beat too hard on it... here is a question... what would you say if I showed up to bid your property in my 65'?
once I worked the bugs out in the 70' the only problem I have had with it was.. o wait nothing in the last 10,000 miles
all I can say is fix up your truck so it looks presentable and if people dont want to give you their business because you dont have a $80k work truck then trust me you dont want their business because they alwas end up being a pain in the ass.... I dont keep up with the Jones...lol
~Nate
:deadhorse: :deadhorse:
begleytree
H. sapiens moderatus
Sweet truck Firewood guy! If you showed up at my house, you'd probably get my biz too. I like a guy who likes nice things, especially when they get old!
BUT, you made one mistake. You cannot tell us (guys like me) that it has a big block without telling me what big block
so? 390? 351? 352? 400M? 460?
while your at it, you might as well throw in tranny info too.
-Ralph
BUT, you made one mistake. You cannot tell us (guys like me) that it has a big block without telling me what big block
so? 390? 351? 352? 400M? 460?
while your at it, you might as well throw in tranny info too.
-Ralph
I'm a tree guy...my son landscapes & NO I'm NOT a dealer....
Mr. Firewood that truck has NOTHING to do with what we're talking about here...
1- Its NOT a work truck
2- Its NOT a daily driver
Need more reasons????
howel07264
ArboristSite Operative
buy a good newer used unit.
Ive got a bussiness assoc. that bought a supposedly low milage 80something ford dump 2 years ago cheap. last year he poured about 12k into this clunker and guess what ? its still a clunker. maybe worth 5k. Replaced fuel dillery system, ps pump, camshaft, valve job, tranny work, new tires, welding on frame, fuel tank, paint, and now the differential is shot.Buy a solid 2 or 3 year old unit with reasonable mileage and avoid the new truck payments.
howel07264
ArboristSite Operative
By the way any downtime of your equipment means lost revenue . I don't have time running back and forth to the shop or worrying about breakdowns. just my 2cents.
cool thread!
I have to agree with the older truck theory.
New stuff is nice tho.... Warranty is great. The 16 year old beast is tested. It is reliable. As for the EFI making mileage better, remember he said it gets about 6. There maybe ways to improve that, but might not as well. What does it matter? It hauls. Diesel would run cheaper, but cost a fortune to obtain.
I had a different theory last year. I bought a 1974 Dodge dump conversion. It had been abused by previos owner, so it was tested... and pre-broken. Now I have well over 3000 in it, and it is functional. Not even close to pretty.
For a firewood hauler, pretty doesn't count. However as for simple it don't get much better than this.
383 with 435 granny tranny. 205 transfer case, 44 front and 70 rear. :hmm3grin2orange:
-Pat
I have to agree with the older truck theory.
New stuff is nice tho.... Warranty is great. The 16 year old beast is tested. It is reliable. As for the EFI making mileage better, remember he said it gets about 6. There maybe ways to improve that, but might not as well. What does it matter? It hauls. Diesel would run cheaper, but cost a fortune to obtain.
I had a different theory last year. I bought a 1974 Dodge dump conversion. It had been abused by previos owner, so it was tested... and pre-broken. Now I have well over 3000 in it, and it is functional. Not even close to pretty.
For a firewood hauler, pretty doesn't count. However as for simple it don't get much better than this.
383 with 435 granny tranny. 205 transfer case, 44 front and 70 rear. :hmm3grin2orange:
-Pat
Timberhauler
Addicted to ArboristSite
I've got a Freightliner truck with a straight bed and log standers,a international dump truck..Another international truck with a grapple loader,I refuse to own a bucket truck....My International trucks are both 95 models that were gone through and refurbished..The freightshaker is an old beater but gets the job done...I also have a 99 model F-450 with two hundred thousand miles and it isn't the best looking thing on the road...They are all well maintained,paid for and get the job done....I say if it ain't broke don't fix it....With all the big trucks,the F-450 still does the bulk of the work because it's so easy to get around in..Plus I can get it into places where I couldn't think of getting the bigger trucks...I plan on kepping the 450 until getting rid of it is absolutely unavoidable...I see many older nice looking dump trucks on the raod..Again if it's working for you and it's paid for,give it whatever it needs and keep it.
begleytree
H. sapiens moderatus
yup, dam, Jazak, you're just smarter than the rest of us poor idiots here.
guess Im stupid to take care of my equipment. should be more like you and just trash it, WTH? gonna buy another one soon anyway!
smarter your not, in a different area with different type of people? maybe.
just because we dont agree with you doesnt make the rest of us dumb.
reminds me of the old joke that goes: statistics say that 1 out of every 5 people are mentally unstable. think of your 4 closest friends, if they're normal, it's you.
well, this old dumb boy is gonna close this post out.
-Ralph
huskydave
Addicted to ArboristSite
here are my thoughts if you buy new: after you drive it off the lot you could have bought 2 old trucks like yours. Personnaly I won't buy a vehicle new 1 year old maybe let the other guy take the biggest hit on it + you still get a good warranty If the old truck starts costing you a lot in repairs then yes it is worth looking at a newer one but... if you enjoy working on it and it's not costing you an arm and a leg to keep it in good condition and it may have sentimental value than keep it fix it up some and later on you will have something nice to trade in. things I buy new:chainsaws quads and boats/motors they have very little deprciation .
Mr. Firewood
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BULLSCHITT!!! I put more miles on the 70' then on my durango each month, the 65 after it is finished again will be my daily driver and I am going to sell my durango.... the 70' does more work then any new truck ever could, think I am lying? I got a chain buddy and we'll hook them up and someone is going to end up with a sore bum about it and it wont be me!
plowing 12" of snow from my accounts,... this truck was never shut off for 36 hours, not once and the only problem I had was when I hit a curb the headlight blew for the plow... btw that is a 10' blade
here is my 70 dropping off a load of wood (390 BTW) this was before I built the new steel mesh sides
all I can say on this topic is use what you have and do the best you can.
~Nate
Timberhauler
Addicted to ArboristSite
Twelve payments????What about the other 48.To mention what about the higher cost of insurance on a new truck,or how about the higher taxes on a new truck?????...I will step right up here and say that me and my little four man crew are turning a little a half million dollars a year gross...But these are four employees that are getting paid well...actually even sharing a little profit...Lets see here...As I mentioned,everything sitting on my lot is paid off,there are no payments being made.I have done well buying well maintained USED trucks for my business...Here's how it works out...I write a check,drive the truck home and it is mine....So what happens if you happen to hit a dry spell and your not able to make payments??That new truck will end up behind a wrecker.Then what?You have given up a truck that was paid for for this new truck that is no longer yours..One might say this will never happen,but after fifteen years in this business IT DOES,it happens to everyone now and then,and it's always unexpected and at the most awkward times....You better walk in someone else's shoes there buddy before you go questioning someone's brain.....And I'll bet that my trucks are making just as much money,possibly even more since they are PAID FOR,than a new truck would.
lawson's tree s
ArboristSite Operative
nice looking trucks mr.firewood ive got a 1969 ford f350 i built a aluminum chip body on it only has 64,000 original miles its got the 351 windsor . the 390 should be more than enough power for your truck. i dont own a new trucks newest one is a 89 wont own a new one to much computer stuff on them today. when they dont start you got to take them to a shop/ at least with the older stuff you can climb inside the hood and work on any thing.
lawson's tree s
ArboristSite Operative
he's a picture of my 1969 ford f350
arbor pro
Addicted to ArboristSite
The decision whether to buy new equipment or keep running old seems to boil down to three primary factors: professionalism, maintenance and financial benefit.
1) PROFESSIONALISM: Can you make your older equipment appear professional to your customer base? I certainly believe that older equipment that looks good and runs good can convey a professinal image potentially as well as new equipment. But, if you're going to run older equipment, your personal image and that of your employees had better be squeaky clean so your customers' attention is on who's providing the services for them and not on what equipment is being used to support the service.
I think more important that new or used is the realization that certain types of equipment can draw the attention of the public. When I first ran the only 18" whole tree chipper in my town, people would gather enmasse to watch an entire 40' spruce tree get run through the beast in one piece. Yes, it was brand new but, folks were watching the beast because it was a beast - not because it was pretty. On the other hand, I could draw similar attention with my 6" drum chipper. Besides the obnoxious noise level that would draw out the curiousity in people from 2 miles away, folks just loved to watch branches disappear into the machine in a blink of an eye. Perhaps, they were also curious to see if I or an employee would disappear into it just as quickly (they don't call 'em 'chuck and ducks' for nothing). A 6" disk chipper just doesn't have the same effect on folks. As another example, I get more onlookers when I run my mini skid loader than I do when I run a full-size one. People seem to find the power of the mini intriguing and are always asking me questions about it.
2) MAINTENANCE AND FINANCIAL BENEFIT: What works best mechanically and financially for your business? We're not all mechanics and, regardless of what many members of this list might think, we don't need to be to be in this line of business. I take my older stuff to a local mechanic and having him work on it is still cheaper than buying new equipment in most cases. However, when I consider asset depreciation into the tax picture, it often costs me money in by not trading off the old equipment and buying new that I can claim depreciation on.
I'll repeat my comments from my previous post - what works for one business isn't necessarily going to work for another. Period! Jazak, running new equipment might work for your business but, you're out of line by insinuating that EVERY business would be better off in the long run by running only newer equipment. You're just as entitled to your opinion as any of us are but none of us can rightly tell another business how to manage his finances. There are too many factors involved with such a decision. If a business doesn't have the income base to support new bank payments and insurance, it could just wind up as another bankruptcy statistic and the owner soon looking for a new line of work with a bad credit record hanging over his head.
I do agree with you (Jazak) that there are numerous advantages to running new equipment. However, it's important to consider those advantages without dispelling so quickly the advantages of running older equipment. Advising a new business to run only new equipment without knowing his company's financial position could be a highly irresponsible thing to do. I would like to think that we all putting our two cents worth into this forum because we want to learn and want to help other folks learn - not steer them down a path that might be deprimental to them...
1) PROFESSIONALISM: Can you make your older equipment appear professional to your customer base? I certainly believe that older equipment that looks good and runs good can convey a professinal image potentially as well as new equipment. But, if you're going to run older equipment, your personal image and that of your employees had better be squeaky clean so your customers' attention is on who's providing the services for them and not on what equipment is being used to support the service.
I think more important that new or used is the realization that certain types of equipment can draw the attention of the public. When I first ran the only 18" whole tree chipper in my town, people would gather enmasse to watch an entire 40' spruce tree get run through the beast in one piece. Yes, it was brand new but, folks were watching the beast because it was a beast - not because it was pretty. On the other hand, I could draw similar attention with my 6" drum chipper. Besides the obnoxious noise level that would draw out the curiousity in people from 2 miles away, folks just loved to watch branches disappear into the machine in a blink of an eye. Perhaps, they were also curious to see if I or an employee would disappear into it just as quickly (they don't call 'em 'chuck and ducks' for nothing). A 6" disk chipper just doesn't have the same effect on folks. As another example, I get more onlookers when I run my mini skid loader than I do when I run a full-size one. People seem to find the power of the mini intriguing and are always asking me questions about it.
2) MAINTENANCE AND FINANCIAL BENEFIT: What works best mechanically and financially for your business? We're not all mechanics and, regardless of what many members of this list might think, we don't need to be to be in this line of business. I take my older stuff to a local mechanic and having him work on it is still cheaper than buying new equipment in most cases. However, when I consider asset depreciation into the tax picture, it often costs me money in by not trading off the old equipment and buying new that I can claim depreciation on.
I'll repeat my comments from my previous post - what works for one business isn't necessarily going to work for another. Period! Jazak, running new equipment might work for your business but, you're out of line by insinuating that EVERY business would be better off in the long run by running only newer equipment. You're just as entitled to your opinion as any of us are but none of us can rightly tell another business how to manage his finances. There are too many factors involved with such a decision. If a business doesn't have the income base to support new bank payments and insurance, it could just wind up as another bankruptcy statistic and the owner soon looking for a new line of work with a bad credit record hanging over his head.
I do agree with you (Jazak) that there are numerous advantages to running new equipment. However, it's important to consider those advantages without dispelling so quickly the advantages of running older equipment. Advising a new business to run only new equipment without knowing his company's financial position could be a highly irresponsible thing to do. I would like to think that we all putting our two cents worth into this forum because we want to learn and want to help other folks learn - not steer them down a path that might be deprimental to them...
Mr. Firewood
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howel07264
ArboristSite Operative
Great post!
I totally agree with your post. I believe when i show up at a clients home looking clean and neat, driving a 45k chevy duramax, hauling a 35kstump grinder i can and do command a premium price for my services. its all about first impressions. driving a wore out clunker through some of the upscale neighborhoods i work is an open invitation to being pulled over and harrassed by the police. i see it all the time. In 5 years i've never been stopped.
I totally agree with your post. I believe when i show up at a clients home looking clean and neat, driving a 45k chevy duramax, hauling a 35kstump grinder i can and do command a premium price for my services. its all about first impressions. driving a wore out clunker through some of the upscale neighborhoods i work is an open invitation to being pulled over and harrassed by the police. i see it all the time. In 5 years i've never been stopped.
If a guy passed through those upscale neighborhoods in a truck like this he'd get pulled over by the cops?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1981...095333593QQcategoryZ39416QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I someone came to my house in a truck like this that was in good condition I would hire him just to see the truck again!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1951...oryZ6173QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
