Echo 590 Timberwolf opinions

[Chris-PA]

So with no cat, no strato and a conventional carb, Echo has been able to do what no other manufacturer has?

I'd like to get some confirmation that there is no cat.

 

[mountainlake]

The CS500p doesn't have a cat either for sure, the CS400 and CS370 do have a cat.. Steve

 

[mountainlake]

So with no cat, no strato and a conventional carb, Echo has been able to do what no other manufacturer has?

I'd like to get some confirmation that there is no cat.

You already have that info from owners, you just don't want to believe it. Steve

 

[nwmo_aggie]

I have a sneeking suspicion that Echo is selling these at very little profit to themselves just to get their foot into
the firewood saw market. Not that it's wrong but I have a time believing that they'll be able to to keep this saw at
this price point for more than a year or two. It looks like a solid saw from everything I've seen.

I had a dealer tell me this. Supposedly from his district Echo guy. In fact, he had one saw on the shelf at a higher price point, don't recall the figure, but pulled it off and made a comment about that not supposed to be on there yet...maybe by fall that price will be higher. Buy now if interested.

 

[jughead500]

Yes the 590/600 doesnt have a catalytic muffler but instead a "holy" wall for the exhaust to flow thru.

 

[Chris-PA]

You already have that info from owners, you just don't want to believe it. Steve

So how does the fact of ownership conveigh knowledge of whether there are catalytic coatings in the muffler?

It is not an issue of wanting to believe it or not, rather it is an interest in engine design. The emissions problem in chainsaws is mostly that of unburned fuel going out the exhaust, due primarily to the scavenging losses of a 2-stroke and the lousy fuel mixture control of conventional all position carbs. No one else has been able to solve it with only quad transfers and modified porting with a conventional carb., it has also required a cat to react with the remaining fuel output or a feedback carb to control the mixture.

If Echo has been able to do that where, Dolmar, Husqvarna, Stihl, Zenoah, Tanaka, etc could not then it is indeed impressive and I'd like to know more about how they do it. But a healthy skepticism is warranted, and the muffler plate with lots of holes in it sounds suspiciously like a cat.

 

[nmurph]

So how does the fact of ownership convince knowledge of whether there are catalytic coatings in the muffler?

It is not an issue of wanting to believe it or not, rather it is an interest in engine design. The emissions problem in chainsaws is mostly that of unburned fuel going out the exhaust, due primarily to the scavenging losses of a 2-stroke and the lousy fuel mixture control of conventional all position carbs. No one else has been able to solve it with only quad transfers and modified porting with a conventional carb., it has also required a cat to react with the remaining fuel output or a feedback carb to control the mixture.

If Echo has been able to do that where, Dolmar, Husqvarna, Stihl, Zenoah, Tanaka, etc could not then it is indeed impressive and I'd like to know more about how they do it. But a healthy skepticism is warranted, and the muffler plate with lots of holes in it sounds suspiciously like a cat.

Yep.

 

[NWCoaster]

So how does the fact of ownership conveigh knowledge of whether there are catalytic coatings in the muffler?

It is not an issue of wanting to believe it or not, rather it is an interest in engine design. The emissions problem in chainsaws is mostly that of unburned fuel going out the exhaust, due primarily to the scavenging losses of a 2-stroke and the lousy fuel mixture control of conventional all position carbs. No one else has been able to solve it with only quad transfers and modified porting with a conventional carb., it has also required a cat to react with the remaining fuel output or a feedback carb to control the mixture.

If Echo has been able to do that where, Dolmar, Husqvarna, Stihl, Zenoah, Tanaka, etc could not then it is indeed impressive and I'd like to know more about how they do it. But a healthy skepticism is warranted, and the muffler plate with lots of holes in it sounds suspiciously like a cat.

Huh, that's funny about how it also always requires a cat too...... Stihl must have figured it out.... My 461 has no cat and uses a conventional carb and still meets the emissions specs.

 

[Chris-PA]

Huh, that's funny about how it also always requires a cat too...... Stihl must have figured it out.... My 461 has no cat and uses a conventional carb and still meets the emissions specs.

OK, that is a valid point. Can anyone explain how that works, and why Stihl and others are moving toward Strato + AT/MT if it isn't needed? Are the emissions limits averaged over the total sales, the CAFE limits for cars?

 

[nmurph]

Yes, I think they have some form of credits they are issued, probably based on the percentage of OPE sold. That was the reason given for the short reintroduction of the 440- the 441 sales allowed them to burn some credits on the 440.

 

[Miles86]

Maybe certain brands want you (consumer) to believe that strato-computers-etc.. are required , think how this helps take the control of future saw service OUT of the users hands and forces it to the repair shops.

Its all been done before , just look at you car, those that are old enough to have cars in the 70's or earlier can see exactly were all this is going.

GOVT regs+manufacturers (asking for these regs)= higher profits. Also reduces competition in the business.

Echo has a good saw in this model.

 

[Chris-PA]

Maybe certain brands want you (consumer) to believe that strato-computers-etc.. are required , think how this helps take the control of future saw service OUT of the users hands and forces it to the repair shops.

Its all been done before , just look at you car, those that are old enough to have cars in the 70's or earlier can see exactly were all this is going.

GOVT regs+manufacturers (asking for these regs)= higher profits. Also reduces competition in the business.

Echo has a good saw in this model.

I really wish they'd bring back those steering wheel mounted spark control levers. It's just wrong that they added those fancy centrifugal weights that advance the spark automatically, it's just one small step down the slippery slope to full government mind control of everyone.

I don't like added complexity if it doesn't provide something of value, but these systems are stone-simple and directly address the two major causes of unburned fuel blown out the exhaust - fuel that you pay for, doesn't provide any power, and contains much more nasty stuff that you breathe than does exhaust. Properly done strato gives more power, and does not need any additional moving parts. Feedback carbs are very simple, keeps the engine in perfect tune when under load, and can protect the engine from damage due to air leaks and such.

 

[nmurph]

Yeah, and I like to hand crank the old Farmall. It worked equally well in 30° as it did in 100°.

 

[dl5205]

Yeah, and I like to hand crank the old Farmall. It worked equally well in 30° as it did in 100°.

I liked my old Unstyled B JD, and my kick-only HD sporty 1000. Nostalgia is wonderful. But really, starter motors are more wonderful.

 

[Chris-PA]

I liked my old Unstyled B JD, and my kick-only HD sporty 1000. Nostalgia is wonderful. But really, starter motors are more wonderful.

The 6V system in my TO-20 wasn't the best of ideas. 12V is a lot more forgiving of a few less-than-perfect connections!

 

[mountainlake]

So how does the fact of ownership conveigh knowledge of whether there are catalytic coatings in the muffler?

It is not an issue of wanting to believe it or not, rather it is an interest in engine design. The emissions problem in chainsaws is mostly that of unburned fuel going out the exhaust, due primarily to the scavenging losses of a 2-stroke and the lousy fuel mixture control of conventional all position carbs. No one else has been able to solve it with only quad transfers and modified porting with a conventional carb., it has also required a cat to react with the remaining fuel output or a feedback carb to control the mixture.

If Echo has been able to do that where, Dolmar, Husqvarna, Stihl, Zenoah, Tanaka, etc could not then it is indeed impressive and I'd like to know more about how they do it. But a healthy skepticism is warranted, and the muffler plate with lots of holes in it sounds suspiciously like a cat.

Most people that mod a CS590 muff can tell with a cat is including me, I don't have A CS590 but have a new CS500p which doesn't have a cat muff. Most Echo muffs without a cat have a tube inside with lots of holes in it that the exhaust has to go through. Maybe the Echo saws without a cat use a lot of back pressure to keep the emissions down and that is why they respond so well to just a simple muff modd and tuning. Still don't believe it buy one and see for yourself. Steve

 

[Andyshine77]

The 590 does not have a cat muffler.. I don't see the stock muffler being that much more restrictive than most saws, 361, 660 and so on. With design you don't always have to have strato porting for an engine to run clean. Like others have said just look at the ms461 as an example. The echo has a better overall design philosophy than the newer Stihl and Husky saw IMHO. Keep it simple stupid comes to mind with these Echo's.

 

[pin oak]

Well it sure is good to know I was not hallucinating when I did my muffler mod and did not know a cat muffler when I was cutting and drilling it. It is NOT a cat muffler. Some people can kiss a certain part of my anatomy. The older and more experienced I get the less tolerance I have. ;}

 

[Spellfeller]

Bought a new CS-590 ten days ago, thanks to much of the advice and reviews I read here on Arboristsite.

Granting that I:
1. am a total novice,
2. have only run one tank of fuel through it on 8" logs in a suburban setting,
3. am comparing it to an 80's vintage Poulan 2000,
I think it is an awesome saw for the money, easy starting, smooth, powerful, simple to adjust and clean.
I am totally psyched to take it to the mountains of Western NC next month and do some more serious work with it.

 

[jughead500]

Its a good saw really.when you show up for me to tune yours I'll break out the cs600 and let you hear it with a muffler mod.