What an incredible PITA.!
At least you got some satisfaction in the end.
At least you got some satisfaction in the end.
Echo CS-490 DEAD after 11.5 months?
- Thread starter Listen Up Sonny
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
Dust ingestion destroying the P/C in that short of a time? It's amazing an MS-660 lives past the first tank of fuel you run thru one. I think they run my dust and chips thru the engine than they do on the ground!
Seriously, the CS-490 is a decent little saw, but a bit "weak" for the CC's. I've set up a few of them as mentioned and every single one has led a good life to date. One of my customers owns a tree removal service and uses his as a limbing saw and his ground crew has been running the bag off of it for several years now right along side a CS-590 I set up for him. Both have been flawless to date but they look pretty "rough" as that sort of life is about as hard on a saw as it gets.......Cliff
Seriously, the CS-490 is a decent little saw, but a bit "weak" for the CC's. I've set up a few of them as mentioned and every single one has led a good life to date. One of my customers owns a tree removal service and uses his as a limbing saw and his ground crew has been running the bag off of it for several years now right along side a CS-590 I set up for him. Both have been flawless to date but they look pretty "rough" as that sort of life is about as hard on a saw as it gets.......Cliff
Dust ingestion sounds like dealer bs to me, most likely tuned lean. Steve
+2, 3, 4, 5 and 6!
I don't buy into the "dust ingestion" BS. Every single Echo saw I've pulled out of the box and set up for myself or my customers has REQUIRED more fuel added to the tune to make them happy. IF I would have left them as-is they would have "smoked" the P/C's, some in pretty short order as they were WAY too lean.
This fact makes buying used Echo saws a crap-shoot as many of them you will find on Ebay will have some metal "smeared" over the ring on the exhaust side of the piston, have seen this WAY too much for my liking and prefer to buy them NIB and modify them before they have any run time on them......FWIW......Cliff
I don't buy into the "dust ingestion" BS. Every single Echo saw I've pulled out of the box and set up for myself or my customers has REQUIRED more fuel added to the tune to make them happy. IF I would have left them as-is they would have "smoked" the P/C's, some in pretty short order as they were WAY too lean.
This fact makes buying used Echo saws a crap-shoot as many of them you will find on Ebay will have some metal "smeared" over the ring on the exhaust side of the piston, have seen this WAY too much for my liking and prefer to buy them NIB and modify them before they have any run time on them......FWIW......Cliff
Listen Up Sonny
ArboristSite Lurker
There definitely was sawdust in the cylinders. There was also gas soaking the air filter. Something was seriously wrong with the unit. Without an autopsy by a knowledgeable person, I'll probably never know why it was bogus. I never bought the notion that I ran a dull chain. To be honest, I think the decision making comes from echo corporate. The dealer is reputable and doesn't actually selle echo chainsaws (maybe my first clue). Anyway, I did push back against this. They seemed like a White House staffer trying to defend some of the crazy talk from up top, LOL. I don't really think they believed it. The owner of the shop was the person that got me in contact with the right person at echo. Once I got to the top, people were reasonable to work with. I think they have a gauntlet of underlings to throw you off the scent.
Funny thing is under every Echo advertising poster or tag on their product in big bold letters the sprout '5 YEAR WARRANTY' and so many noobies always say the 5 yr warranty was what made them buy an Echo over an x..y..z.
I know this is an old thread but I’m calling BS on this... you never have to tell Echo what plug you are using nor do the investigate (other then the Engine Failure Diagnosis form to verify heat range) but none of that has to be involved. Sounds like you have a ****** dealer or have only bought them from a box store which does nothing at all to make sure they run right out of the box.
The fact that people buy outdoor equipment from these stores are a joke. Don’t expect support from a big box store... You are telling me a independent dealer should go to bat for you (someone that bought it a H D to save $15) but now you want them to spend the time and man power to put together a claim and fight for you, ok...
D
Deleted member 149229
Guest
Wish I knew everything like you do, wish I still had the rejection letter from Echo. My dealer quit the business because he kept getting all the repair warranty work from HD and not getting reimbursed from Echo. Echo put him off for 10 months before making the determination to reject the warranty, the saw was sent to them. Here’s a pic of the broken piston on the intake side, you tell me how it happened. Echo claimed wrong plug and my fault.
I don’t know “everything” but I do know Echos... some of them. One thing to note... that is not the intake side of the piston (the transfers sweep forward and the arrow towards the exhaust). Any dealer that does warranty’s often should be able to get it done fairly quickly and know that they don’t get reimbursed but rather credited to their echo account. I will say that to me it looks like a piston material failure by the breakage of the piston and lack of overall transfer ie no ring failure. I will say that Echos 2 strokes get a lot out of a small package and people often dismiss the fact that proper lubrication is key. Oil is not just oil, it lubricates, cools, and cleans and has an effect on everything it touches. I’m not saying that was your cause for failure but rather an observation that is common in “big box store” purchases and failures.
If you every need support or parts, let me know I’d be happy to help you or anyone on this forum out.
D
Deleted member 149229
Guest
Amazing how my dealer, me and Echo all said intake side. Guess we were all wrong.
I appreciate your sarcasm when you can see in the other photos that the ring pin is on the rear (4:30) side of the piston and the small arrow points towards the exhaust port (as shown in the CS400 manual when it talks about piston specs.)
I’m just trying to assist and clarify but it’s clear you’re not interested, I’ll pack sand.
Attachments
If that was the intake side when the saw was pulled apart, the piston was in backwards. No likely but could happen. Steve
To answer " did anyone ever have a good outcome trying to get Echo Warranty Service?"
NOT ME!!!! I've bought 4 Echo saws and IMHO the cs310 (is crap) the cs352 a LOT better saw ( crappy chain catcher), dealer would not stand behind a Month old saw, about 1.0 hour or less of use. On the other hand its a good light saw a LOT better than cs310 and worth the price difference. A cs 490. So far so good keeps up with my Sthil 026. A cs590, so far so good a tad bigger and stronger than the Sthil 029. How do I feel about my Echo Dealer?. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. I am very mad. Do I really believe Echo Warranty is any Good! Ha. Ha. Ha. Really! Are you serious! Ha. Ha. I'm laughing so hard I'm chocking. Oh! Wait! I'm chocking back tears.
But, wait!!!! I can actually fix and tune my own saws.
So!!!!!!!
In my case,. Echo saws are pretty good BECAUSE they are lighter than my Sthils.
I'm past 72 yo. Getting old and weaker. In fact I can barely do my Finger Tip Push ups these days. Lighter saws make me work more often. However, Yesterday, I was clearing Storm damage. A big ole Pine Tree. I carried two saws to the job. Opted to use my very old Sthil 029 with a 24 inch bar with a professional chain hand filed very sharp, MM well tuned. It just needed running.
When I laid into that tree the Home owner smiled. He was very impressed. He said, man that saw really cuts well. In fact he asked about buying the saw. Since I have an Echo cs 590 and really don't need the Sthil I guess I could let it go for 300 bucks, maybe! But Echo Warranty is the Subject! Right!
So,,,,has anyone seen any Flying Saucers hoovering over their houses lately?. They tell me if you see an Ailen Eating boiled eggs drinking beer and speaking Japanese, then no Problem, Echo will fix your saw for free for the full 5 year warranty. My dog believes it's true too. He just barked 3 times and licked himself. Wait! Was that my dog or my dealer! Getting hard to tell the difference. Might as well buy your Echo whereever you get the lowest price and hope for the best. My opinion.
Good luck.
Nice reading - you are in a love-hate relationship with your Echos 
.
I never buy saws with warranty, so I wouldn't know. But I guess light weight comes with breaks easy. There is no such thing as a bullet proof and featherweight power tool.
.I never buy saws with warranty, so I wouldn't know. But I guess light weight comes with breaks easy. There is no such thing as a bullet proof and featherweight power tool.
motoguy
ArboristSite Member
I bought my C501p and CS620PW because they seemed to be well regarded saws, and Echo had a good reputation. I knew I'd be removing the carb plugs and doing a muffler mod as soon as they arrived, so warranty was a non-issue. They've been great saws the couple of years I've had them.
You pays your money and you takes your chances.
In my case the Store Owner lets the Manager handle the Saws. They sell Sthil and Echo. Back in 2015 I bought my first Echo the cs590. Never had the first Problem. Then 3 more sae purchases later the Manager that was really honest suddenly left. When I took the new cs352 in the door the New Manager was on duty. I recognized him as someone from a different dealership where I felt should be named Rip em off equipment company. I already knew BEFORE he opened his mouth that Id better be ready for a denial. I try not to hate anyone but this guy has cost that dealer several sells because I am a man lots of people ask advice from. I'll send em elsewhere. So in the end a 12 dollar part cost that dealer dearly. It's gonna hurt Echo too.
One skunk can stink up a whle village. At my age I'll be lucky to be working another 10 years so probably won't but another saw. However, as long as I'm alive I'll croak like a Mill Pond Frog. A lot of people will hear m croaking and drive right past. Echo will loose too. People need to realize the people they hire xan make or break a company. When a dog bites it's the Owner who pays. Good luck.
This Forum exists to educate folks and most are handy enough to do their own work, like removing limiter caps and giving these new saws sold to meet EPA the fuel they REQUIRE to live a long and healthy life.
If you "smoke" a P/C on a new piece of power equipment because you ran it before removing the limiter caps for custom tuning you may be forced to deal with some dealer BS and trouble getting help with Warranty issues, etc. Customer service in all industries seems to be seriously lacking these days.
A very good friend of mine was a depot level service tech for Echo, highly skilled and knowledgeable. They cut him loose during some "downsizing" about 10 years ago, shame on them. He told me that nearly all the issues he was seeing with smoked P/C's was nothing more than Echo pleasing the EPA and willing to accept a percentage of smoked P/C's as a result. He highly recommended WAY back in 2003 when we first met to not put one minute run time on any of their power equipment without removing the limiter caps and custom tuning.
He also stressed TCW-III oil and good quality fuel. I've had ZERO failures and have purchased, tuned, sold and ran/run more Echo chainsaws than most who will read this. Some are so lean right out of the box they will barely pull a load till fully heat soaked and then still "anemic" from being too lean. Combine that with some restrictive mufflers (CATS) and deflectors and it's a recipe for disaster.
On the other side of that coin IF the new owner of a CS-590, for example removes the limiter caps, custom tunes, uses good fuel and oil you will find yourself with a saw that will last for DECADES and never grumble once. I've been running the dog living chit out of a CS-370 and a CS-590 for many years now just to see if I can kill them, and they are FLAWLESS!
From time to time these threads come up and folks bash shops and Warranty stuff. I get all that but it should not deter others from buying some of Echos' excellent products and taking the time to custom tune them BEFORE placed in service. I'll bet very few if any folks who do that will have nothing but good results and enjoy a long service life from that piece of equipment.....FWIW......Cliff
If you "smoke" a P/C on a new piece of power equipment because you ran it before removing the limiter caps for custom tuning you may be forced to deal with some dealer BS and trouble getting help with Warranty issues, etc. Customer service in all industries seems to be seriously lacking these days.
A very good friend of mine was a depot level service tech for Echo, highly skilled and knowledgeable. They cut him loose during some "downsizing" about 10 years ago, shame on them. He told me that nearly all the issues he was seeing with smoked P/C's was nothing more than Echo pleasing the EPA and willing to accept a percentage of smoked P/C's as a result. He highly recommended WAY back in 2003 when we first met to not put one minute run time on any of their power equipment without removing the limiter caps and custom tuning.
He also stressed TCW-III oil and good quality fuel. I've had ZERO failures and have purchased, tuned, sold and ran/run more Echo chainsaws than most who will read this. Some are so lean right out of the box they will barely pull a load till fully heat soaked and then still "anemic" from being too lean. Combine that with some restrictive mufflers (CATS) and deflectors and it's a recipe for disaster.
On the other side of that coin IF the new owner of a CS-590, for example removes the limiter caps, custom tunes, uses good fuel and oil you will find yourself with a saw that will last for DECADES and never grumble once. I've been running the dog living chit out of a CS-370 and a CS-590 for many years now just to see if I can kill them, and they are FLAWLESS!
From time to time these threads come up and folks bash shops and Warranty stuff. I get all that but it should not deter others from buying some of Echos' excellent products and taking the time to custom tune them BEFORE placed in service. I'll bet very few if any folks who do that will have nothing but good results and enjoy a long service life from that piece of equipment.....FWIW......Cliff
Absolutely correct Cliff within the Echo dilemma . I have experience rejetting a few CS400 echo,s that were so lean that they could not be tuned fat enough . However majority of the echo,s can be tuned with just limiter or Welch plug removal . Unfortunate that echo has this mind set , overall a quality product . I can just imagine this scenario , within purchasing a new vehicle lmao .
I don’t know why this is always discussed as a problem with Echo. As far as I can tell every chainsaw brand is required to meet EPA regulations. Do you Husky and Stihl fans just run them straight out of the box as delivered?
By the way, my CS450 that I bought new well over 10 years ago tunes perfectly within the range of the limiters.
By the way, my CS450 that I bought new well over 10 years ago tunes perfectly within the range of the limiters.
I do EXACTLY the same with Stihl unless it's a later "bottom end" model with a fixed jet carb on it. They all like, want and respond well to adding some fuel/custom tuning.
Husqvarna small power equipment seems to be closer to "ideal" right out of the box, Stihl not too bad, but in contrast Echo traditionally er's more on the lean end of the scale and why it is NOT an option (IMHO) to run one right out of the box vs spending a few minutes giving them the fuel they need for best efficiency, power, and long life without taking a gamble on "smoking" the P/C. This goes WAY beyond their saws, plenty of good things waiting for you with their string trimmers and leaf blowers as well.
If you want to be like the masses and just buy equipment and expect it to be fine then you are opening up the door for having to find out how good, bad or useless their Warranty may be with these things. Custom tune, minor exhaust mod on a few models, use good oil mix, and proper maintenance and enjoy the equipment for many years w/o issue is more likely to be the case........FWIW......Cliff
Husqvarna small power equipment seems to be closer to "ideal" right out of the box, Stihl not too bad, but in contrast Echo traditionally er's more on the lean end of the scale and why it is NOT an option (IMHO) to run one right out of the box vs spending a few minutes giving them the fuel they need for best efficiency, power, and long life without taking a gamble on "smoking" the P/C. This goes WAY beyond their saws, plenty of good things waiting for you with their string trimmers and leaf blowers as well.
If you want to be like the masses and just buy equipment and expect it to be fine then you are opening up the door for having to find out how good, bad or useless their Warranty may be with these things. Custom tune, minor exhaust mod on a few models, use good oil mix, and proper maintenance and enjoy the equipment for many years w/o issue is more likely to be the case........FWIW......Cliff
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
Tutorial: make your own raker depth gauge supported by software tool- Latest: Herbert Schwarz
-
-
-
-
-