Echo CS-490 DEAD after 11.5 months?

[stubnail67]

Oh and i also pull the tabs and adjust it in wood right after i buy it....so yea i void that warranty soon as it comes out of the box or real close....LOL....

 

[drf255]

I ported a 490 and they are good little saws.

It’s clear that Echo’s customer service sucks. Your plight has been experienced by many over the years.

One issue is that their saws are tuned to the lean edge because of epa requirements. One should pull/trim/replace the limiters as the first step after purchase. It voids the warranty, but you can see how that one goes. The 490 has a limited coil and needs to be tuned in wood. It’s not easy to tune by ear. I’d recommend doing it now before you burn this one up too.

My advice, if you ever need another saw, is to buy used off of a reputable member here. But a used Stihl 026 or 036 and don’t look back. Rugged old designs that are simple to repair and have an ambundance of used PEM and new AM parts that can be had for a fair price. Then just go cut.

 

[drf255]

Here’s my old sale thread if anyone wants to see inside the 490.

The build thread is over at the forbidden forum.

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/ported-echo-490.296860/

 

[Elaine Landscapes]

Like already said, Echo sets their saws up way way way too lean. It is meant to meet EPA regs. My first 490 wouldn’t even start because it was too lean. Took it back got a replacement and took it straight to a pro tuner. The limiters are gone now, the muffler has an extra port and it was tuned ‘properly.’ I also have a tach mounted to the 490 now so I can keep an eye on the WOT speed. Just me but I also run a quality oil and mix it 45:1.

The Echo dealer I bought my saw at didn’t even start the first one, saying it was ‘good to go’ and tuned at the Echo factory. That is a recipe for disaster.

I will never buy a new saw again, without ensuring the tuning is correct. Too lean will do exactly what you found with your saw (so I have been told by two chainsaw gurus now).

Love my 490 but the corporate Echo entity, not so much.

 

[pioneerguy600]

I ported a 490 and they are good little saws.

It’s clear that Echo’s customer service sucks. Your plight has been experienced by many over the years.

One issue is that their saws are tuned to the lean edge because of epa requirements. One should pull/trim/replace the limiters as the first step after purchase. It voids the warranty, but you can see how that one goes. The 490 has a limited coil and needs to be tuned in wood. It’s not easy to tune by ear. I’d recommend doing it now before you burn this one up too.

My advice, if you ever need another saw, is to buy used off of a reputable member here. But a used Stihl 026 or 036 and don’t look back. Rugged old designs that are simple to repair and have an ambundance of used PEM and new AM parts that can be had for a fair price. Then just go cut.

Good advice here, the Echo saws have not been my forte but a couple of our local dealers here had a very difficult time with Echo Corp on warranty work. The local dealers wanted to please their customers and did fix saws for customers to keep them happy, Echo Corp refused to pay them so a dealer can only eat so much without backup from the manufacturer. The saw itself is well made and rugged in most models but its the tuning issue they were forced to follow to meet EPA restrictions, tuned on the edge of lean to meet the regs. A good dealer would pull the limiters and re tune the saw, immediately that voided warranty, Echo Corp would not allow this no matter who did it. However most all re tuned saws did not come back needing warranty work.The dealer could not determine if a problem was warrantied, shipping takes time, turn around times were too long so most owners got fed up and bought another saw, most did not buy another Echo. More often than not though burned up saws are not the machines fault outright, the owner needs to know what the engine needs, if its screaming then there is a problem, hard starts, rough idle, poor acceleration, surging and very high revving are all signs there is something wrong that needs immediate resolution, far too many operators will just try to keep them running til the engine dies.

 

[Cliff R]

Just realized that I didn't put up the photos on modifying the factory limiters so you can make the needed carburetors adjustments when your new Echo is first placed in service.

You will find that some Echo models will BARELY run right out of the box and hesitate and die out until fully warmed up, and even then they will be a tad anemic until you give them adequate fuel.

Some models also respond well to a muffler mod, these include the CS-370/400's and any other model that has a CAT in it.

The CS-590/600/620's have a pretty decent muffler just a little restrictive at the deflector so we do a slight mod to those as well but leave the muffler alone.

The CS-510's are restriction internally and it's a BIG wake up call for those saws to make a mod there. Anyhow, removing the limiter caps and grinding off the stops is simple and doesn't take much more time to perform than it took me to type this:



The last pic here shows the finished product, hardly noticeable that you even modified them. That's not really a concern anyhow because rest assured that if you start your new Echo saw out correctly tuned it is not going to smoke the P/C unless you are stupid enough to straight gas it!

Final note here on tuning. Some models use a rev-limiter and other models use a timing retard module. A few are unlimited but it really doesn't matter, tuning is done in the same manner, you just have to be smart enough so any high RPM limiting features don't fool you into thinking your "H" setting isn't set correctly.

Get the saw running, fully warmed up and set the idle or "L" screw first. I turn them in until you reach maximum RPM, then back just a tad until you just here it start to slow the engine. This provides adequate fuel for transition and best throttle response. Turn the "H" screw out till the saw is noticeably rich and down on power and "four stroking" heavily. Start making cuts, leaning it up with each cut. Before the cut free rev the saw to insure it's still "four stroking" and during the cut remove the load for an instant to make sure it four strokes there as well. Continue to lean it up until it makes the best power in the cut and pulls hard clear across the load/speed range.

The rev limiters or timing retard modules come into play with some models and will fool the tuner into thinking they have made an adequate "H" speed adjustment. So sneak up on the tune and ALWAYS er just a tad rich vs a tad lean. I've been doing this sort of thing over 40 years now and full time since 2003 and have never, ever smoked a P/C in any saw I own or any Echo's we've sat up for our customers.

I'll add here then sit down that Echo has played the field some in the past 15 years or so. They've hit the market with some new models including some piston ported top handles, some "lower end" clamshell stuff, and some EXCELLENT pro type saws. To stay in the game you have to offer "homeowner" and lower end stuff, otherwise EVERYONE will run down and buy a Stihl MS-170 or even worse a Poulan at Walmart. Some of the Echo clamshell stuff is excellent, and essentially bulletproof if tuned correctly, the CS-370/400's come to mind here.

The CS-590/600/620's are about as good as it gets for 60cc offerings in those price points. The CS-590 is and continues to be the best bang for the buck out there in a 60cc saw sporting professional features.

The CS-670/680's and 800's aren't so great and Echo needs to re-think that line-up and produce larger versions of the CS-620PW......IMHO. Nothing all wrong with the 670's/800's, but they are not on par with similar Stihl and Husqvarna models in that CC/price range and you will NEVER find yourself reaching for either one if you own a nice 268/272/372XP.....FWIW.........Cliff

 

[James Miller]

490 is still my go to firewood saw. Just keeps cutting guess I'm one of the lucky ones.

 

[fulladirt]

Just realized that I didn't put up the photos on modifying the factory limiters so you can make the needed carburetors adjustments when your new Echo is first placed in service.

You will find that some Echo models will BARELY run right out of the box and hesitate and die out until fully warmed up, and even then they will be a tad anemic until you give them adequate fuel.

Some models also respond well to a muffler mod, these include the CS-370/400's and any other model that has a CAT in it.

The CS-590/600/620's have a pretty decent muffler just a little restrictive at the deflector so we do a slight mod to those as well but leave the muffler alone.

The CS-510's are restriction internally and it's a BIG wake up call for those saws to make a mod there. Anyhow, removing the limiter caps and grinding off the stops is simple and doesn't take much more time to perform than it took me to type this:

View attachment 698078 View attachment 698079 View attachment 698080 View attachment 698081

The last pic here shows the finished product, hardly noticeable that you even modified them. That's not really a concern anyhow because rest assured that if you start your new Echo saw out correctly tuned it is not going to smoke the P/C unless you are stupid enough to straight gas it!

Final note here on tuning. Some models use a rev-limiter and other models use a timing retard module. A few are unlimited but it really doesn't matter, tuning is done in the same manner, you just have to be smart enough so any high RPM limiting features don't fool you into thinking your "H" setting isn't set correctly.

Get the saw running, fully warmed up and set the idle or "L" screw first. I turn them in until you reach maximum RPM, then back just a tad until you just here it start to slow the engine. This provides adequate fuel for transition and best throttle response. Turn the "H" screw out till the saw is noticeably rich and down on power and "four stroking" heavily. Start making cuts, leaning it up with each cut. Before the cut free rev the saw to insure it's still "four stroking" and during the cut remove the load for an instant to make sure it four strokes there as well. Continue to lean it up until it makes the best power in the cut and pulls hard clear across the load/speed range.

The rev limiters or timing retard modules come into play with some models and will fool the tuner into thinking they have made an adequate "H" speed adjustment. So sneak up on the tune and ALWAYS er just a tad rich vs a tad lean. I've been doing this sort of thing over 40 years now and full time since 2003 and have never, ever smoked a P/C in any saw I own or any Echo's we've sat up for our customers.

I'll add here then sit down that Echo has played the field some in the past 15 years or so. They've hit the market with some new models including some piston ported top handles, some "lower end" clamshell stuff, and some EXCELLENT pro type saws. To stay in the game you have to offer "homeowner" and lower end stuff, otherwise EVERYONE will run down and buy a Stihl MS-170 or even worse a Poulan at Walmart. Some of the Echo clamshell stuff is excellent, and essentially bulletproof if tuned correctly, the CS-370/400's come to mind here.

The CS-590/600/620's are about as good as it gets for 60cc offerings in those price points. The CS-590 is and continues to be the best bang for the buck out there in a 60cc saw sporting professional features.

The CS-670/680's and 800's aren't so great and Echo needs to re-think that line-up and produce larger versions of the CS-620PW......IMHO. Nothing all wrong with the 670's/800's, but they are not on par with similar Stihl and Husqvarna models in that CC/price range and you will NEVER find yourself reaching for either one if you own a nice 268/272/372XP.....FWIW.........Cliff

GREAT post Cliff, Thank-you!

 

[crazyduster]

Wow too bad about the 490. I really like mine. I have an echo blower that acted up after 1 1/2 years started to run bad. I did buy it at the daler. I took it to the dealer that I bought it from for service under warranty. The flywheel key had sheered off causing a timing issue. The dealer gave me a loaner while they had it and gave me a brand new blower for no charge per echo saying the cost of repair exceeds a new one. I don't buy stuff like this from the big box stores just the dealers. Same price and if you have an issue I think they will go out of there way for you if you have an issue. My local dealer sells stihl echo and husqvarna. They register everything for me when I purchase it. They tuned my 490 and my husqvarna under warranty both were really lean .

 

[Deleted member 149229]

490 is still my go to firewood saw.View attachment 698094 View attachment 698095Just keeps cutting guess I'm one of the lucky ones.

After I converted my 490 to 3/8 lp like you did that saw really impressed me. With the 325 it just was so-so.

 

[Marley5]

Just realized that I didn't put up the photos on modifying the factory limiters so you can make the needed carburetors adjustments when your new Echo is first placed in service.

You will find that some Echo models will BARELY run right out of the box and hesitate and die out until fully warmed up, and even then they will be a tad anemic until you give them adequate fuel.

Some models also respond well to a muffler mod, these include the CS-370/400's and any other model that has a CAT in it.

The CS-590/600/620's have a pretty decent muffler just a little restrictive at the deflector so we do a slight mod to those as well but leave the muffler alone.

The CS-510's are restriction internally and it's a BIG wake up call for those saws to make a mod there. Anyhow, removing the limiter caps and grinding off the stops is simple and doesn't take much more time to perform than it took me to type this:

View attachment 698078 View attachment 698079 View attachment 698080 View attachment 698081

The last pic here shows the finished product, hardly noticeable that you even modified them. That's not really a concern anyhow because rest assured that if you start your new Echo saw out correctly tuned it is not going to smoke the P/C unless you are stupid enough to straight gas it!

Final note here on tuning. Some models use a rev-limiter and other models use a timing retard module. A few are unlimited but it really doesn't matter, tuning is done in the same manner, you just have to be smart enough so any high RPM limiting features don't fool you into thinking your "H" setting isn't set correctly.

Get the saw running, fully warmed up and set the idle or "L" screw first. I turn them in until you reach maximum RPM, then back just a tad until you just here it start to slow the engine. This provides adequate fuel for transition and best throttle response. Turn the "H" screw out till the saw is noticeably rich and down on power and "four stroking" heavily. Start making cuts, leaning it up with each cut. Before the cut free rev the saw to insure it's still "four stroking" and during the cut remove the load for an instant to make sure it four strokes there as well. Continue to lean it up until it makes the best power in the cut and pulls hard clear across the load/speed range.

The rev limiters or timing retard modules come into play with some models and will fool the tuner into thinking they have made an adequate "H" speed adjustment. So sneak up on the tune and ALWAYS er just a tad rich vs a tad lean. I've been doing this sort of thing over 40 years now and full time since 2003 and have never, ever smoked a P/C in any saw I own or any Echo's we've sat up for our customers.

I'll add here then sit down that Echo has played the field some in the past 15 years or so. They've hit the market with some new models including some piston ported top handles, some "lower end" clamshell stuff, and some EXCELLENT pro type saws. To stay in the game you have to offer "homeowner" and lower end stuff, otherwise EVERYONE will run down and buy a Stihl MS-170 or even worse a Poulan at Walmart. Some of the Echo clamshell stuff is excellent, and essentially bulletproof if tuned correctly, the CS-370/400's come to mind here.

The CS-590/600/620's are about as good as it gets for 60cc offerings in those price points. The CS-590 is and continues to be the best bang for the buck out there in a 60cc saw sporting professional features.

The CS-670/680's and 800's aren't so great and Echo needs to re-think that line-up and produce larger versions of the CS-620PW......IMHO. Nothing all wrong with the 670's/800's, but they are not on par with similar Stihl and Husqvarna models in that CC/price range and you will NEVER find yourself reaching for either one if you own a nice 268/272/372XP.....FWIW.........Cliff

This is a great informative write-up.
Precisely how I was taught to tune a saw many years ago.

 

[Elaine Landscapes]

Cliff R, thanks for your post. This will be a valuable thread with the information you added, now available for the new Echo purchaser who doesn’t realize how lean their saw could be.

Don’t mean to impose, but any chance you could also show what you do on a muffler similar to the CS-490? The guy that tuned my new saw added an extra port to the muffler, but I would love to see what you do to ensure he covered off what you have found to be most effective. Thanks!

 

[stubnail67]

I still love all my echos i just mod the air filter on certain ones with with a bead of grease or a home made foam gasket on certain models the 2511t was the worst one but i was shaving palms ...my rear handle saws are many times on their side close to the ground and suck crap in ... if i was bucking fire wood i doubt i would see much stuff get sucked in ...dont need alot of fire wood in florida well except for marshmallows....my 490 cuts good with a narrow kerf .325 16 inch...but i still need to get one of those 3/8s lo pro rims and see the difference....here its oaks pepper trees or palm trees LOL...nice pics James...

 

[stubnail67]

Cliff R, thanks for your post. This will be a valuable thread with the information you added, now available for the new Echo purchaser who doesn’t realize how lean their saw could be.

Don’t mean to impose, but any chance you could also show what you do on a muffler similar to the CS-490? The guy that tuned my new saw added an extra port to the muffler, but I would love to see what you do to ensure he covered off what you have found to be most effective. Thanks!

take off the deflector pull tube cut defector and mount it back i kept the screen on mine but here is an after pic....i had to pull the muffler the screws are a pita....on this one....the 590 is a gravy mod also...

 

[Marley5]

The screws are definitely a PITA.....warming the saw may help.

Here's the restrictor tube that needs to be removed.

 

[James Miller]

That pretty much covers it.

 

[jrs_diesel]

Excellent post Cliff!

Echo may not have the highest performing equipment, but thier build quality and design is excellent IMO. Thier approach seems geared more towards service life and longevity, current factory carb tuning not withstanding.

 

[Colt Marlington]

Here's what I did to mine for temporary, with no screen.

I figure the restricter tube alone, without screen, is less restrictictive than the stock deflector.
Stripped the head on one of the screws taking it apart.

Has a much nicer tone than stock.
But plan on making a bigger one that angles more toward the front and reinstalling the screen.

 

[Colt Marlington]

I bought an 18" .325 narrow kerf chain for mine.
Can anyone tell me if I need a special bar for this chain? Both the chain and the bar that I have are .050 gauge.

 

[Deleted member 149229]

I bought an 18" .325 narrow kerf chain for mine.
Can anyone tell me if I need a special bar for this chain? Both the chain and the bar that I have are .050 gauge.

A narrow kerf chain is supposed to be run with a narrow kerf bar. The the bar is correspondingly narrow to match the chain.
http://en.oregonproducts.com/pro/lookups/selguide.aspx?BusId=OCS&SellReg=USA&LangId=ENG