Echo CS-490 DEAD after 11.5 months?

[North by Northwest]

Echo apparently has some sketchy dealers , have heard numerous horror stories within warranty denials for various reasons . I have a yr old timber wolf and it has been a great performer that has run on 91 Octane and Amsoil Sabre @ 50:1 . I advised the dealer of this prior to purchase , since I also use Sabre in my Husky 576xp . He had no issues with other than Echo oil being used in his brand voiding warranty which I had heard from other forums in the past . Same with my Husky Dealer and their Ultra Syn blend oil policy .

 

[mountainlake]

There are way to many shady dealers everywhere. Steve

 

[wyk]

I love my echo's, but you do need to make sure they are tuned right. From the dealer, they can be very lean. I prefer the fact they do not have electronics since I can mod them to work without just fine. We have an ms241 on the estate that is about to go on it's third carburetor in 4 years(my choice would have been to replace the saw this time around). The next time it acts up it gets replaced with an Echo 500 or 501. Same weight anyways. I'll make sure it doesn't run too lean.

 

[holeycow]

This would be very interesting if true. Can you substantiate this claim?

ya, my ******** meter is pinned too.

 

[Colt Marlington]

I don't think they measure the power differently. But I generally think most of their saws are designed to make their power at a lower rpm with a wide low revving powerband. So maybe similar torque at a lower rpm equals lower hp rating.
This with the exception of the 2511T which has quite a quick and high revving engine.

I didn't expect my 490 to be a screamer out of the box. It is what it is, and I got a smokin deal from my local pawn shop.
I just expected something that was easy starting, reliable, and could run a 20" bar and chain better than most 40cc saws. And I think it does all of that in spades.

But the 501P probably gets closer to a 261CM, and is pushing into the pro category of saws with a higher power to weight ratio and a little more style and substance.

 

[Listen_Up_Sonny]

Hello, I am the original poster. I've been silent for a long time because the saw has been at the dealership for a longtime. I am returning to post the resolution to my issue. About the only things I'm happy with are that the saw is fixed and there is value in any resolution.

I just picked up the rebuilt saw from the echo dealership. The claimed cause of failure was sawdust ingestion from a not sharp saw blade. Echo, after some run around, offered a partial warranty where they covered parts and I covered labor. The total personal cost to me was $230 (2/3's the original purchase price), about a days worth of driving around and annoying phone conversations, 4 months without the saw, and personal frustration. I believe that a fair deal is one where both sides feel like they could've done better, but I do not look at this as a fair deal. I look at it like a government shutdown. I was the side that felt the pain the most and was willing to accept a mediocre deal. I did investigate making a claim through my states implied warranty laws and I believe I could've made a reasonable case. But, like I said, there was value in a resolution.

I want to be crystal clear that the Echo repair dealership was not involved in the original sale, does not get paid unless either echo or the customer pays them, and does not have the decision power on whether or not a warranty is denied. It would be unfair to hold them at all culpable. Additionally, they do not actually sell echo chainsaws, which should tell you something. I think the only reason I was offered anything was because they advocated strongly for me, and they definetly spend more than the 2.25 hours I was billed for.

Here are some thoughts, feelings, and takeaways:
1. ECHO CHAINSAWS ARE FRAGILE LITTLE FLOWERS!
Personally, I think the idea that a dull chain killed this saw is sheepish. I do not know nor can I prove one way or the other that more attentive chain sharpening would've prevented this issue. I do know that I acted reasonably and how most people would: followed manufacturer guidelines including not removing limiter caps, careful about fresh and properly mixed gas and proper oils, maintenance sharpening regularly and if chip size/performance suffered, replaced chains as needed, didn't continue to run saw when performance issues were noted, etc. Keep in mind that all components were less than a year old, I have receipts for chains/files/truefuel/echo premix oil/echo tune up kit, the air filter was not gross or damaged, and...I mean a chainsaw should not be killed by sawdust except due to gross negligence.

2.Echo will do anything to avoid a warranty claim, they'll always blame it on you, it'll cost you $45 and 3 months to even attempt to make a warranty claim, and these saws are not worth fixing:
Echo empirically stated that the cause was bad gas, my fault, and not under warranty when initially contacted. Well, the very fact that they changed their reason when they actually looked at the saw should tell you something. In addition to the firm rebuff, it will also cost you $45 and 3 months just to find out if they'll stand behind their products. Even with echo finally covering the parts, this saw was not worth fixing. If you had to cover parts, it would be more than the new cost. They are simply throw away saws if you have any problem. The only reason I elected to repair it was that I needed the saw, would rather make echo pay for some parts and me pay a local business, and a stihl was not in the budget.

3. Echo doesn't care about your satisfaction or loyalty.
Satisfaction is the bare minimum you expect from a purchasae. If you pay $1 for a McD's burger, you are satisfied because it served it's purpose. You weren't expecting filet mignon. If you get a little more than you expected for the price, you become loyal. I expected to at least be satisfied. I wasn't expecting the saw to go head to head with a saw 2-4x it's price, but I expected the saw to serve its purpose faithfully. My first chainsaw was a little echo about 20 years ago. It served it's purpose and offered a little more than I expected, so I became loyal. I've bought a handful of other items: trimmers, blowers, a mutli-head unit over the years. These all served their purposes for long periods of time. I purchased this saw and a higher end echo trimmer in the past 2 years. I was comfortable buying these without much concern about the warnings from others because I was loyal. Well, the chainsaw has been a huge disappointment and the trimmer has also underwhelmed. My loyalty is gone.

Rant Over!

 

[Squatch]

That’s crazy you had to pay $230 and waste that much time and energy to try and get some of the advertised 5year warranty!!!

I’ve been toying with the idea of adding a 490 or 501p to my stable because of the value and warranty offered by echo. After reading your experience I will definitely be going with a husky of Stihl.

It would be EASY for them to fix or better yet replace the saw at no cost to you, and given all of their equipment you own they should have bent over backwards for you. It probably would have saved them time and money in the long run.

Good on you getting the word out. It will cost them at least 1 potential customer.

 

[fulladirt]

Thanks for the update.
Sad that you were treated like that man I'd be pissed too.
We have 2 Echo saws (bought from a good dealer)
Has anyone ever had a GOOD experience dealing with Echo warranty?

 

[shadco]

On one hand, if the saw was bought from a good saw shop I bet it would be just fine. Buying at a box store and getting a box, vs having someone going over the saw with you and explaining how to be successful with the saw are 2 entirely different things. There are at 2 good saw shops that sell echo near me, I bought my Stihl’s (saws, line trimmer, blower, and Kombi ) from one of them but they both seemed solid on the Echos too, they made sure they ran right before I left, and reviewed how to tune in the manual.

Don’t buy outdoor power stuff from box stores.

.

 

[SEAM]

I am sorry for your bad Echo experience...
You said in your initial post that you use premix and also self-mixed fuel. Depending on the pre-mix (alcohol-based (Motomix, Aspen, etc.) or gasoline-based) this may cause problems as gasoline and alcohol have different properties and require re-tuning of the carburetor when switching between them.

The 40+ bucks charged for looking at a saw under warranty is ridiculous!

I have used a number of smaller Echo saws (second hand) regularly for years without problems so far and also run a number of older pro models (30+ years old) from time to time... always thought the brand produces high-quality stuff.

 

[Squatch]

On one hand, if the saw was bought from a good saw shop I bet it would be just fine. Buying at a box store and getting a box, vs having someone going over the saw with you and explaining how to be successful with the saw are 2 entirely different things. There are at 2 good saw shops that sell echo near me, I bought my Stihl’s (saws, line trimmer, blower, and Kombi ) from one of them but they both seemed solid on the Echos too, they made sure they ran right before I left, and reviewed how to tune in the manual.

Don’t buy outdoor power stuff from box stores.

.

Truth!

 

[Colt Marlington]

I think the $40 and them always assuming the customer is always wrong is why most people on this site don't mind immediately voiding their warranty with mods, and figure on taking care of any problems themselves.

$230 is a lot of coin for taking a little ole chainsaw apart and putting it back together.

 

[Deleted member 149229]

I love my Echo saws but yes the company itself sucks for warranty. This happened to one of my Echo saws at 10 months, Saw was bone stock. Took Echo another 10 months to finally decide it was my fault. Still own Echo saws and string trimmers but I “void” the warranty as soon as it comes home, the warranty is useless.

 

[champion221elite]

Thank you OP for the update. I have an un-molested CS490 that I bought back in August of 2018. I had been holding off doing a muffler mod and carb tune for the sake of preserving the 5 year warranty. I have now realized that Echo's warranty isn't worth the paper it's written on. I was also planning on picking up a CS620P this Spring, but that may not be happening after reading about your misfortune.

I do have a question about Echo suggesting the cause of failure was sawdust ingestion. Was your air filter clean and well seated on the intake? If the filter was clean, and seated I fail to see how saw dust could get into the engine. Furthermore, if damage was caused because of a poorly engineered filter/ intake shouldn't that have been a factory defect and therefore a warranty issue?

 

[Cliff R]

The root problem here is the fact that Echo is hell bent on pleasing the EPA and turns their power equipment loose pretty lean right out of the box. Even so in the hands of the average homeowner or non-commercial use they fair pretty well.

IF a few simple steps are taken BEFORE you place the saw (or other power equipment) in service it will not have a P/C issue.

I know this because I work on power equipment here, and see "smoked" P/C from all brands, and most of the time it's simply from the operator running them in a poorly tuned condition where they aren't getting the fuel they need to keep EGT's down and adequate lubrication to the internal components.

There are always a few that come in where the owner should have hired the work done and kept his day job. This includes picking up the WRONG fuel can without any oil mixed in it, or fuel so old it I can pour it in the driveway outside the shop and have trouble lighting it with a torch! Yes, just had this happen last week when I guy brought in a Honda 2500 watt generator that would not run. Absolutely NOTHING wrong with it aside the fact that the fuel wouldn't burn, but he thought, like most other homeowners than the Stabil he put in the fuel back in 2005 would preserve the fuel no matter how long it sat till the next power outage........lovely!

Anyhow, these Forums exist to educate folks, so here goes. When you buy an Echo saw (or other brand that has a carb with mixture screws/limiter caps) remove them and modify them so you can custom tune the saw if/as needed. This is where the Echo haters chime in and scream you'll void the Warranty, well, IF you follow these directions you aren't going to need the Warranty and done correctly no one will be able to notice that you modified them anyhow. (pics below)

The manufacturer's do try to set them up so they don't have issues, but there are WAY too many things beyond their control, including fuel type, octane, amount of ethanol, quality (yes some fuel isn't as good as others), how old it is, quality and amount of oil mix being added, altitude, DA (Density Altitude)/air quality, failure to clean the air intake system/air filter, etc, etc, etc, etc.

So IF you want your little Echo to always be at it's best, learn how to remove the limiter caps, modify them, put them back in place, and make correct carb settings based on the fuel you are using and parameters the saw will be used in.

IF you want to be with the masses and simply buy a saw that gets casual use, fuel that's sat in a gas can for months or even years, and don't really care to have your saw always be at it's best and last a lifetime, then stay off the Forums and sit in your recliner and have the wife fetch you beers instead.

To this day it AMAZES me how well some of this equipment lasts with the abuse and neglect that it gets from the owner/operator. To make that deal even worse those folks come on here whining like little baby's AFTER they have smoked the P/C......and NEVER put Stabil in saw gas, just use it up within a couple of months, then throw it out before dumping it into any of your power equipment, ESPECIALLY if it wasn't in a sealed container as ethanol soaks up water 1 to 1 and forms "apple jelly" in the fuel can, saws fuel tank, and ends up plugging up the tiny passages in the carb (Mountain Lake refers to this above) leaning out the A/F ratio even further. As a side note here I absolutely LOVE ethanol, it keeps us BURIED in work in the shop with no end in sight.

In closing and FWIW, I can purchase an Echo CS-590 for a little over $300, have it shipped here, quickly remove the limiter caps/custom tune, give it to a company who removes trees for a living, and their ground crew will run the dog-living-piss out of it every single day, and run into them many months or even years later and they tell me the saw still runs flawlessly and has needed nothing but a few dozens chains replaced and a bar or two. IF I were to simply gas the same saw up, fire it up for a quick test run, hand it over to the same company.......it would be back in here in less than a month with a "smoked" PC, guaranteed!........FWIW........Cliff

 

[champion221elite]

Thanks for the update.
Sad that you were treated like that man I'd be pissed too.
We have 2 Echo saws (bought from a good dealer)
Has anyone ever had a GOOD experience dealing with Echo warranty?

I did have a positive experience with an Echo warranty a few years back. I have an Echo PB-250 handheld blower that had intermittent lack of spark. It was about 3 years old so I contacted Echo and made a warranty claim. They instructed me to take it to my local Echo service center (almost an hour from my home). I left it with the service guy who diagnosed the blower as having a failed ignition coil after having it for a few weeks. Total turn-around time was about 6 weeks. Echo covered the parts and labor 100%. Sadly, the small engine shop went out of business and I have lost that local resource.

 

[Listen_Up_Sonny]

It would be EASY for them to fix or better yet replace the saw at no cost to you, and given all of their equipment you own they should have bent over backwards for you. It probably would have saved them time and money in the long run..

The real disrespect is that the $200 I paid in labor is more than their unit cost on a new one. There are ways they could've kept me happy without it costing them anything such as the original purchase price credited towards a new, more expensive saw, etc.

Don’t buy outdoor power stuff from box stores.

This is very good advice and it is and isn't relevant to my situation. I purchased it in a bit of a pinch due to a windstorm and needing to do lots of cleanup. It was the fastest way I could get my long driveway open, and there was only one other saw available in the area because everyone made a run on saws that day. And, regardless of where I bought it from, I expected better (probably naively so).

$230 is a lot of coin for taking a little ole chainsaw apart and putting it back together.

It is. It came in small bursts. $30 for my local guy, $40 for the diagnostic, and $160 for the labor. If I had known the trajectory of this path, I wouldn't have gone down it. But, sometimes, you don't realize you're in the woods until you're deep in.

I do have a question about Echo suggesting the cause of failure was sawdust ingestion. Was your air filter clean and well seated on the intake? If the filter was clean, and seated I fail to see how saw dust could get into the engine. Furthermore, if damage was caused because of a poorly engineered filter/ intake shouldn't that have been a factory defect and therefore a warranty issue?

The original filter was used, but not gross. It was properly installed and visually undamaged. Yes, I agree that it should've been a full warranty issue...LOL

The root problem...
In closing and FWIW, I can purchase an Echo CS-590 for a little over $300, have it shipped here, quickly remove the limiter caps/custom tune, give it to a company who removes trees for a living, and their ground crew will run the dog-living-piss out of it every single day, and run into them many months or even years later and they tell me the saw still runs flawlessly and has needed nothing but a few dozens chains replaced and a bar or two. IF I were to simply gas the same saw up, fire it up for a quick test run, hand it over to the same company.......it would be back in here in less than a month with a "smoked" PC, guaranteed!........FWIW........Cliff

Yes, I agree with what you're saying. But, bad/lean gas was not the mode of failure. They are claiming sawdust ingestion. Can I assume that since it was rebuilt by a dealer, they tuned it properly at this point? I know that it needs ongoing tuning.

 

[Cliff R]

Brand new CS-490 today at Rural King for $227, they are having a 35 percent off sale......

"Sawdust ingestion", never heard of that deal before and I've been working on power equipment since the mid 1970's and full time in my business since 2003. I guess it's possible if someone ran it with a huge hole in the air filter element or without one at all!

The "smoked P/C" was most likely a tad lean right out of the box, which is a slow death and NEVER gets any better the longer you own and use the saw because it will eventually get "varnished" up enough in the tiny fuel passages inside the carburetor to go even leaner.

The ONLY way I know of to prevent this is to use the saw often, change out the fuel often (no more than about 2 months per batch), and if/when you are finished with it for the "season", get it fired up, dump the tank,, and run it till it stalls out and if able pull the choke lever as the engine dies out.

It will take a few extra pulls at the next outing, but rest assured the fuel woln't have eaten up the fuel line, and clogged up the carb, etc......Cliff

 

[Jer75]

Reading this thread with interest, as I recently added a CS-490 to my stable.

I happened to be into the local John Deere dealer today, and they're Echo servicing dealer as well. During our visit we were talking about the Echo warranty, and I'd told him I've never had to use it (I also have a CS-330t, CS-400, and CS-590) but that my understanding is that it's a gimmick, and folks have a hard time getting Echo to stand behind stuff when issues crop up.

He agreed, and told me that they'll often try to put the blame on the customer and frame it around gas issues. He said they tried that with a customer he'd sold a string trimmer to, and he said he argued with them and he had receipts showing the customer had bought the high dollar Echo canned fuel and that's all he ever used. He said he spent probably over 2 hours on the phone with them over some period of time, and they first wanted to pay for part of it but not the labor etc. He eventually convinced them and they replaced the trimmer... it was a $130 trimmer! Took 6-weeks.

Also told me of how they can't even get some of the saws the big box stores can, and that a guy bought a chainsaw from a farm store in the next town over, had issues with it THAT DAY... (probably tune related) and the guy took it back to the farm store the same day he bought it and they told him to take it to the JD dealer the next town over (him...), that they're a servicing dealer. So the customer comes in mad and with a bad attitude, all because that his saw isn't set up right, and this guy had nothing to do with it...

He told me people will say "...well, you're made whole anyway, yada, yada" but he said his shop rates are $80 an hour, Echo pays him $25.

Anyway, thought I weigh in. Gotta feel for the service centers - a whole new world!

 

[stubnail67]

I keep saying some of the echos pull fines into the air filters....I clean my saws after every use...you should not have to... I do its why i find certain models have filter issues the 490 is one so is the cs 310 and the 352 also the 2511t....the cs 400 and 370s are real good the cs 355t is good the cs 330t was good and the cs 271t filters well for such a simple filter... the 590 is not bad with a few o-rings its fixed....Knowing this i blow everything off and check the filters every time it sux but its all part of it...on the saws i mentioned that are no issue even in palms you can go a few uses ... I have only seen fines in the cs 400 series once my boss who tapped his filter ones per year... LOL.... I wish they would use the type that the 370 and 400 use in my opinion they work much better.... grease /o-rings people have different fixes....Bottom line after a hard day clean it and check the intake if i see fines i close the choke and clean it... then blow the inside of the air filter area out with a compressor takes minutes... i plug the intake with a thumb when i do this.... good luck hope it helps ya all....oh and i sharpen my chain after every use... just how i roll....