Echo cs-800p

[James Miller]

Yeah i found it tough to tune the limited coil with out a tach. It was hard to hear the switch between the 4 stroke and the ignition cutting out. At least for me. I was curious how the 620 timing would effect a stock ported 590. Seems to work fine. I'm sure it would top off a port job though. They are kind of expensive though as you know.
If I could do it over I would have just bought the 620. I have spent the same amount on the 590 but it's still dosnt have the better porting of the 620. Oh well. Maybe I will give the 590 a go at porting..
I had a hard enough time getting my RA grinder in a 80.cc cylinder,how am I ever going to get it in a 60.cc cylinder?!


And then there is the carb on the 590.. has those crazy high and low bypass deals in it.. fix is plug hole in bottom of main jet to be able to fully tune it I believe for the stock carb.. its amazing that between the rev limiter and bypass in the carb that you can still cook these saws from what I've read. And seen in pictures of some of the used 590 cylinders of Ebay.. yikes!

If your against the limiter with a stock 590 or even muff modded your extremely lean. Stock most of them are happiest around 12k. The limiter is 13.5k. My ported 590 with a firewood tune will stay off the limiter and just tag it now and then setup to play at a gtg.

 

[James Miller]

I've never seen the limited coil on the 590 as an issue, it's set well above where it runs in the cut.

The horror stories about smoked P/C's are simply from folks who didn't take the time to remove the limited caps and custom tune them. The CS-590 more than the CS-600/620's are super lean right out of the box. Some are so lean they woln't even rev well until fully warmed up.

Echo needs to build a 70-75 cc saw on the CS-620 platform, they are missing a nice chunk of the market......IMHO......

Theres a new 70cc echo in real world testing now. Don't know if it's based on the 600 series case though.

 

[Kcdub1000]

I've never seen the limited coil on the 590 as an issue, it's set well above where it runs in the cut.

The horror stories about smoked P/C's are simply from folks who didn't take the time to remove the limited caps and custom tune them. The CS-590 more than the CS-600/620's are super lean right out of the box. Some are so lean they woln't even rev well until fully warmed up.

Echo needs to build a 70-75 cc saw on the CS-620 platform, they are missing a nice chunk of the market......IMHO......

The limited coil is definitely not a issue. But tuneing by ear with out a tach. to know where I was I couldn't tell you if that was the ignition cutting or a 4 stroke.. both sound rich to me..so I eliminated that concern on mine..

According to my tach my 590 is free spinning up to around 10,000 rpm. If I can trust it.. I'm no where near 12,000. I Still have room to lean it out some..

 

[Kcdub1000]

If your against the limiter with a stock 590 or even muff modded your extremely lean. Stock most of them are happiest around 12k. The limiter is 13.5k. My ported 590 with a firewood tune will stay off the limiter and just tag it now and then setup to play at a gtg.

It's crazy after some port jobs guys couldn't get this carb to lean enough. Even closing the h screw off, were still calling it rich, from what the bypass would feed. If I recall I think I'm about 1 turn out or so on my h screw.. so plenty of adj left. I did remove the snorkel in the air cleaner and replaced with a spacer. and put 2 holes in rear of the cover for air flow so it didn't have to pull it from its elaborate path it had to travel to get there. Holes can be closed due to conditions (dust or water)

I always try to error on the rich side of my tunes. Tuning saws is relitavly new to me, but been tweaking dirt bikes for some time. Always ran my bikes a little rich, still do.. if I was racing and rebuilding every weekend that's a diffrent story.


Isn't there a cs680 saw that is really close to 70.cc that comes with that awesome air cleaner? Or is that a older model? I think it's up in the cs800 price range though.

 

[Cliff R]

The best method to tune the "H" speed screw is to start out noticeably rich. Not "blubbering" and barely running but 4-stroking easily when the load is removed. Start leaning it up and making cuts, removing the load about mid-way thru the cut to make sure it's 4-stroking. Keep leaning it up and continue making cuts until you obtain best cutting performance, but still 4-stroking when the load is removed. If you are unsure about going lean fatten it back up slightly and cutting performance should fall off slightly and 4-stroking easier when the load is removed. It's one of those thing you need to sneak up on, and ALWAYS er just a tad rich vs a tad lean.

The rev-limiter can be a little annoying as part of the final tune if it is set too low, which isn't really a problem with the CS-590's I've set-up here. The CS-360T is another story, the rev-limiter is set too low making it difficult to tell the difference between a correct "H" speed screw setting and being on the limiter. The CS-360T would be a much better saw without a limited coil.....IMHO........Cliff

 

[Kcdub1000]

Update on the carb. It took a while to recieve. I put the 63-1 carb on today. There are some small differances between the carbs but it worked. After about 20 min trying to restart my saw, I finally got it idling. Seems to run strong with the new carb. Planning on taking out the 800 and 590 tomorrow and do some buckin. Pge took down some trees at my parents house.
I also ported the 590 and that is running really strong now! We shall see how the 800 pulls now.

 

[The Singing Arborist]

Kcdub1000, Thanks for refreshing this thread and putting in your findings on the CS800.

I ended up buying it late last year and have been impressed and not impressed with it at the same time. I found the same problems with the plug cover for the high/low settings for the carb. It's a real pain. I didn't install it right and ended up sucking way too much sawdust into the carb...ended up in the piston...and you bet, it blew that up. It was one of the best learning experiences though. I ordered a new piston and cylinder, and did my first engine rebuild. It runs great now.

Did you have to make any modifications to the new, larger carb to get it to fit? Also, now that you have some time after the port job, how do you think the saw reacted with that? I'm pretty interested in doing both of those to my saw.

 

[Kcdub1000]

You are welcome! I have had alot of fun building both of these saws.

That's a bummer about getting dust getting in your saw! Isn't that plug a horrible design!? I was fighting it again today. Such a pain to open and close.

I did not have to modifie anything really. The only thing I did was put a small zip tie to the left of the throttle linkage to keep it from moving so much when you hit the gas. Every thing works, it's just not quite a smooth to operate the levers as the stock carb. The choke is either on or off. It dosnt have that half throttle position when you push the choke back in. So that's kind of a bummer.

So I ran the saw today. The log I was cutting was about 16 inches and green, Dougfur. So pretty soft. I did not get into the big logs yet. The saw sounds amaizing free spining. I still need to lean it up some. Going to wait for the big logs to do final tune. But I'll tell you all this. My 590 I'm pretty sure would smoke this 800 through that same log. Cutting with them back to back. The 590 is just plane mean now after the port job. But I changed timing and experaminted with the transfers on that saw. I did not change timing on the 800. But it got a good boost in compreshon. I did not get a lot of run time on the saw before I ported it though. It did seem to liven it up some. But overall i am not as impressed with it as i am the 590. The 590 really blew me away today.

I may have to dive back into the 800 later and mess with the timing. It dose seem to have plenty of torque though. The big logs will tell the full story. I will be sure to update when I get it fully tuned. I will try to get another video of it cutting.

 

[The Singing Arborist]

I have found the same thing with my 590 and the 800. You can put the same bar and chain on both these saws and the 590 would win (with the 20" and 24" bars anyway). What's weird with the 800, is it cuts the same speed if it has a 20" or a 36" bar. It doesn't seem to care what you put on it, it's just going to go at its own pace, which is a reasonable pace. I'm usually impressed with the 800 when it has the big bar and unimpressed if it has a smaller one.

 

[Cliff R]

I wasn't overly impressed with my CS-800 anyplace. It was just OK for cutting power and certainly didn't want or need to run at high RPM's.

I thought that removing a rubber plug to access the mixture screws was a little "odd" for a Pro saw, and it had an engine driven oiler vs clutch driven. It also didnt' use the round automotive style air filter like the CS-670's I owned at the same time.

As much as I've come to like Echo power equipment I'd put $550 in a CS-620PW vs more money for a CS-800. I love everything about the CS-620PW, and hope Echo will be offering a larger 70-75cc version at some point based on the same chassis........FWIW......Cliff

 

[Kcdub1000]

Well even if it's not going to be hot rod i still think it is a really cool saw. If I didn't get a good deal on the saw and I had to pay for the port work I may have gone another route.

I'm sure the 800 will do much better in the bigger logs. When it would clean up and not 4 stroke in the cut it seemed to have some real grunt. As long as it dosnt bog and holds a decent rpm I'll be happy.. it has the stock chain on it to. I Havnt touched it. I really do like the old school look of this saw. I wish they would up date the 800 with better designed parts. Like no more plug for carb adj. And maybe get rid of the mile of slack in the trigger before it dose any thing! Maybe a little more rpm in the cut. A couple other things to. But keep it looking the same. I would be interested in a 70cc as well.

It looks like the OP saw turned out pretty mean. I wont be able to really tell with mine untell I get it fully tuned. I'm pretty sure I'm still rich on the top..it sounds pretty nasty when i reve it up though. I dont have a tach on it but it sounds really good. I guess if you know what you are doing you can make this saw run. I dont. But I gave it a go. But it seems to run stronger than stock and it's not fully tuned yet I believe.

So here is a question. Should my 800 be 4 stroking in a 16 in log? It only cleaned up when I really leaned on it. I didn't want to lean it out to much. And have it be to lean it the big logs. I was going to tune it in a bigger logs. Is that the way to go? Basically do you want to tune the carb with the biggest logs you are going to cut?

 

[rmotoman]

For the 8000 run the raker down in the .4-.45 for the shorter bars. It will smoke the 590.

 

[mountainlake]

For the 8000 run the raker down in the .4-.45 for the shorter bars. It will smoke the 590.

You have that right, with a aggressive chain mine smokes my 044. Steve

 

[The Singing Arborist]

I've tuned mine to go in the bigger logs. It's usually what I use it for anyway. If the log isn't bigger than 18", I'm not normally in the mood to lug that saw around to cut it.

 

[Kcdub1000]

For the 8000 run the raker down in the .4-.45 for the shorter bars. It will smoke the 590.

I did adj the rakers on my 590 with my husky gauge for soft wood. So that gave a slight edge to the 590 even though the chips looked bigger from the 800. And the 800 has the 32 in bar and the 590 a 20. Again advantage to 590. Plus the 590 is tuned good. And the 800 was 4 stroking pretty bad unless leaned on pretty good. By the end I had leaned the 800 a total of a 1/4 turn. It ran much better than when I first got there but I think there is still more left in her. And that's a lot of rakers to file on that 800 chain! Haha. The next wood I'm cutting with the 800 is big, dry oak. So I dont want to take the rakers down just yet. Some of the rounds are to big for this bar to go strait through. So the whole bar will be buried in the wood, should be a good test. And I'm sure If i put the 32 in bar on the 590 and tried to cut the big oak it would not do as well as the 800. That's where the 20 extra cc should shine I would think.

I'm curious to see how my 800 stacks up against my dads old 100cc homelight 1020. That's what he has for the big logs. I think he has had that saw longer than I have bein alive. I know one thing that 1020 is loud.... he recently gave me his old promac 55 that is in killer shape. I love this saw! I love the old saws in general..no epa crap on them. And loud as hell. that old mac is a rever!

I've tuned mine to go in the bigger logs. It's usually what I use it for anyway. If the log isn't bigger than 18", I'm not normally in the mood to lug that saw around to cut it.

Yeah that is what I plan on using this thing for. Is the big stuff. After all that's what it was designed for rite! It's just to heavy to cut smalls with. Un less you want a arm and back workout. But it was fun to compare to the 590 side by side!

On another note. When I have to start the 800 cold, I set the bar on a log I use my right hand to feather the gas, and my left hand pulling the cord. Since after you take the choke off it dosnt hold open the throttle for you any more with the 63-1carb. And it wont start unless you give it a little gas. So it's a little bit harder to start cold with this carb. At least for me. When its warm it's usually a one pull start.

 

[Kcdub1000]

I did a muffler mod on the 800 last week. Added duel 1/2 inch pipes. It sounds great and isn't to loud. It is louder however. Of course. But a good loud. I ran the top pipe halfway into the muffler. And the lower as far as it would go before it hit the sleeve for the muffler bolt. I did this to create a little back pressure.. it also keeps the muffler working as a muffler. The sound has to bounce around before it exits it's not a strait shot out. It flows exhaust much more free now. Seems to spin up a little faster. Sounds healthy. Looks decent to. It Dose not interfear with the chain break either.

 

[Kcdub1000]

I got a chance to run the 800 today before it got to hot. After 9:00 its to hot! I can say I am happy with how it cuts now. I think the bigger carb and more free flowing muffler helped alot. It revs up much quicker and holds a better rpm in the cut. I really like the sound of this saw now. I dont have a tach on it but it sounds healthier in the cut. I'm cutting a old oak butt in the video. There is a full video but this shows how it cuts.

 

[The Singing Arborist]

Oh man, that did seem to do the trick. I'm definitely going to do the same to mine (when I get some time anyway). Huge thanks for posting the updates.

 

[Kcdub1000]

You are welcome. Yeah it seems better than it was. Unless it's all in my head. Haha. Now it would be fun to run it next to a stock one and see the difference. I know there is more left on the table. In the cylinder. Good luck with yours. I would like to know your results are the same.

 

[eKretz]

Very cool. I just lucked into a CS-8000 a few days ago for under $100. Good compression, starts easily, came with the 27" bar. Mine is an early version and has the big HDA-45 carb. I've only cut a little with it but so far so good. Eventually I'll muffler mod and port it.