Echo Gloves: not that Safe?

[Philbert]

Is the primary material in chaps Kevlar?

Kevlar is one material that can be used in chaps. It was one of the popular, early materials used, and people often refer to all the protective fibers in chaps as ‘Kevlar’.

If you read the technical product descriptions for different brands of chaps, you will find different materials mentioned, although, sometimes they refer to brand names (‘Kevlar’) versus generic names (‘para-aramid fiber’).

But also a variety of other materials. The chaps standards are performance based, not material specific.

STIHL, for example, uses different protective materials in different countries!

For a good ( but geeky) explanation, read the technical blogs posted by Clogger (I wil try to post a link).

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Here is one link. They have some others in their blogs that are specific to fibers used, advantages and disadvantages of each, etc.

https://blog.goclogger.com/the-clogger-guide-to-global-chainsaw-protection-standards/

Philbert

 

[JimR]

I worked in a machine shop with a guy that tore up his left hand really bad with a kickback. He was trimming branches in an a tree and cutting from a tractor bucket. The saw kicked back and was coming at his face. He put his hand in the way to stop the saw. He kept all his fingers but cut up the palm of his hand really bad severing the nerves in his hand. I saw him a few times afterwards and his hand was really bad. I don't recall him staying at work much longer after that accident. His hand was pretty useless.

 

[Hermio]

View attachment 1214778

This is pretty astounding to me, as it seems the left hand is pretty well protected when gripping the handle and with an anti kickback lever. I wonder if a lot of these injuries were from saws without the brake, or how many were by people holding on to what they are cutting? The data seem counter intuitive. The leg data are believable. The majority of homeowners probably do not own or use chaps, and I have seen quite a few professionals that do not use them.

 

[Hermio]

I worked in a machine shop with a guy that tore up his left hand really bad with a kickback. He was trimming branches in an a tree and cutting from a tractor bucket. The saw kicked back and was coming at his face. He put his hand in the way to stop the saw. He kept all his fingers but cut up the palm of his hand really bad severing the nerves in his hand. I saw him a few times afterwards and his hand was really bad. I don't recall him staying at work much longer after that accident. His hand was pretty useless.

The fact that he was using a tractor bucket to stand in was not wise either. Many have fallen that way.

 

[holeycow]

I met two unfortunate fellows who have the tell-tale ragged scar from chin to forehead.

Wise professional sawhands wear all the safety gear they can get. They know. Things have happened to them and around them during their many years.

I will say it again: for those of you who think you have the reflexes, strength, or whatever to stop a violent kickback, you are dead wrong. The most violent kickbacks occur with fast saws and short bars, so thinking your hopped-up wee saw is not dangerous is folly.

This thread was so off the rails for a while it was concerning. It is straightening out, finally...

20 minutes of familiarization is near "0" with a tool as potentially dangerous as a powersaw

​

This is pretty astounding to me, as it seems the left hand is pretty well protected when gripping the handle and with an anti kickback lever. I wonder if a lot of these injuries were from saws without the brake, or how many were by people holding on to what they are cutting? The data seem counter intuitive. The leg data are believable. The majority of homeowners probably do not own or use chaps, and I have seen quite a few professionals that do not use them.

Those are not professionals.

The back of the left hand gets struck with a saw that just ripped itself out of your hands. Really.

Your grip is weak relative to the instantaneous kick of a fast saw, or any saw. Posture and proper body positioning is key. Standing off to the side with a bent elbow is not proper body positioning. It's a perfect opportunity to add to the left hand/left arm injury stats.

 

[Hermio]

I met two unfortunate fellows who have the tell-tale ragged scar from chin to forehead.

Wise professional sawhands wear all the safety gear they can get. They know. Things have happened to them and around them during their many years.

I will say it again: for those of you who think you have the reflexes, strength, or whatever to stop a violent kickback, you are dead wrong. The most violent kickbacks occur with fast saws and short bars, so thinking your hopped-up wee saw is not dangerous is folly.

This thread was so off the rails for a while it was concerning. It is straightening out, finally...

20 minutes of familiarization is near "0" with a tool as potentially dangerous as a powersaw

​

Those are not professionals.

The back of the left hand gets struck with a saw that just ripped itself out of your hands. Really.

Your grip is weak relative to the instantaneous kick of a fast saw, or any saw. Posture and proper body positioning is key. Standing off to the side with a bent elbow is not proper body positioning. It's a perfect opportunity to add to the left hand/left arm injury stats.

My local timber buyer/sawmill operator does not use any PPE except for eye protection. He cuts thousands of trees per year and is in his 70s. I would say since he has done it for a living for so long he qualifies as a professional. I am sure he is quite skilled. But it only takes one screwup to prove the need for PPE. He is nearly deaf, by the way.

 

[holeycow]

When I first started working in the bush in about 1981, the sawhands didn't wear much, if any, ppe. There were occasional cuts. Nothing too severe in my circle, thankfully. Very quickly after that ppe became voluntarily in use, and soon after, mandatory. I was in the industry for nearly 40 years. Things happened. The deaths were due to mis-judged trees or momentary lapses causing strikes by trees or tree parts, not cuts. The cuts caused debilitating, life changing injuries for several, but nobody bled out.

I was so glad I was wearing my leg protection when I struck just above my left knee a couple of years ago (see diagram). The strands stopped the saw dead. Fast. I wear steel toes, chaps, hardhat, muffs, and those silly gloves all of the time now. I bought the gloves when I bought the first top handle, which I feel is the most dangerous saw. 25cc of scary.

The "fashion" of ppe has come around. Good.

 

[Hermio]

When I first started working in the bush in about 1981, the sawhands didn't wear much, if any, ppe. There were occasional cuts. Nothing too severe in my circle, thankfully. Very quickly after that ppe became voluntarily in use, and soon after, mandatory. I was in the industry for nearly 40 years. Things happened. The deaths were due to mis-judged trees or momentary lapses causing strikes by trees or tree parts, not cuts. The cuts caused debilitating, life changing injuries for several, but nobody bled out.

I was so glad I was wearing my leg protection when I struck just above my left knee a couple of years ago (see diagram). The strands stopped the saw dead. Fast. I wear steel toes, chaps, hardhat, muffs, and those silly gloves all of the time now. I bought the gloves when I bought the first top handle, which I feel is the most dangerous saw. 25cc of scary.

The "fashion" of ppe has come around. Good.

I think I might buy such gloves!

 

[holeycow]

I bought the Oregon ones. They fit very nicely when you measure your hands according to their directions. I generally use them while cutting, and use bare hands or regular gloves when loading/stacking. I don't want to wear them out too fast, lol.

 

[Paul Bunions]

The Echo gloves seem to run small, but that seems to be true of most gloves. I think glove makers realize insecure men want to tell people their hands are "extra-large." My hands are exactly average size, and the extra-large gloves I bought take some wiggling to put on.

 

[Hermio]

The Echo gloves seem to run small, but that seems to be true of most gloves. I think glove makers realize insecure men want to tell people their hands are "extra-large." My hands are exactly average size, and the extra-large gloves I bought take some wiggling to put on.

Many years ago, I bought some "chainsaw safety gloves". They were one size fits all. Well, I think they would have almost fit Andre the Giant! They were so huge on me that they were useless, so I threw them away. I have been using normal work gloves for years, and I wear either large or XL, depending on brand. So, I prefer to try them on before buying. If I get them by mail order, I will insist on a free return if they do not fit.

 

[Husky77]

chainsaw gloves are good in general, some cheap some expensive, you get whatever you like or your budget will allow. Left hand protection is better than nothing wrong should all agree on that but as some humans makes others wonder how they evolved this far you'll always get them and they will always have accidents that's why "health & safety" insists on risk assessment. It's like an idiots guide of what to do and not to do. To most it's common sense but for some reason that's getting beennout of people.
If anyone is dull enough to hold wood while cutting with a chainsaw I'm afraid one day that chain with have you. Make this clear I'm not talking about people who know what they are doing I'm talking about the diy guy that is accident prone..... and i do know of a few sadly.
A glove may help with a small saw but if you have a 60cc+ saw running at full throttle you'll be very lucky to get away with just needing a band aid. I just hope anyone reading this far never unexpectedly test out the chain stopping capabilities of any protective clothing/gear.
Stay safe and be happy out there.

 

[Hermio]

chainsaw gloves are good in general, some cheap some expensive, you get whatever you like or your budget will allow. Left hand protection is better than nothing wrong should all agree on that but as some humans makes others wonder how they evolved this far you'll always get them and they will always have accidents that's why "health & safety" insists on risk assessment. It's like an idiots guide of what to do and not to do. To most it's common sense but for some reason that's getting beennout of people.
If anyone is dull enough to hold wood while cutting with a chainsaw I'm afraid one day that chain with have you. Make this clear I'm not talking about people who know what they are doing I'm talking about the diy guy that is accident prone..... and i do know of a few sadly.
A glove may help with a small saw but if you have a 60cc+ saw running at full throttle you'll be very lucky to get away with just needing a band aid. I just hope anyone reading this far never unexpectedly test out the chain stopping capabilities of any protective clothing/gear.
Stay safe and be happy out there.

I have tested my chain brake deliberately at full throttle, and it stops the chain almost instantly. That is why I was dubious about the need for a glove. But I guess even a stopped chain can cut, so the glove should help. I am no arborist, but I have seen quite a few videos of arborists who held branches with their left hand while cutting with the right so they could control the fall of the branch. I always thought that looked dangerous. I would never do it, even with a top handle saw. (Some of these guys used a rear-handle saw.)

 

[moxiemaul]

Yeah I've seen vids like that too- and some of their training footage where the policy for the new/inexperienced guys is 2 hands on the saw. The single handed ops sure look scary like when they bore right into the base of a branch. Experience and training... I'll cut somewhere else if I'm feeling some need to hold the branch while cutting OTOH I'm just clearing stuff away on the ground so here vs 2 feet over doesn't matter much to me.

 

[HumBurner]

This is pretty astounding to me, as it seems the left hand is pretty well protected when gripping the handle and with an anti kickback lever. I wonder if a lot of these injuries were from saws without the brake, or how many were by people holding on to what they are cutting? The data seem counter intuitive. The leg data are believable. The majority of homeowners probably do not own or use chaps, and I have seen quite a few professionals that do not use them.

I would imagine idiots and people with no business running a powersaw make up the bulk of those stats.

 

[holeycow]

That diagram is based off of industry data (reportable incidents), so professionals.

 

[Chainsaw Pete]

I am not overly impressed with kevlar. From riding motorcycles, I know it is vastly inferior to leather when it comes to preventing road rash. Not even in the same universe.

You are confusing the abrasion properties of leather and kevlar with cutting. The chainsaw will cut leather (take a razor blade to an old leather shoe). It's sharp teeth will snag the fine threads and jam the saw.

 

[Philbert]

For reference, here is a photo from a thread I posted, several years back, showing how little material it can take to stop a saw.

I’ve also seen kite string (and tree bark) jam up a sprocket.

https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/nose-sprocket-rescue-illustrated.256640/

Philbert

 

[HumBurner]

I would imagine idiots and people with no business running a powersaw make up the bulk of those stats.

That diagram is based off of industry data (reportable incidents), so professionals.

Do you have any idea how many "professionals" have no business running a saw? I've met and seen lots of them, and they usually aren't "professionals" for more than a handful of years before they find something else to go be "professionals" of