Echo Gloves: not that Safe?

[Hermio]

Not my point. My thought was IF you had something happen that caused the chain to cause an injury to your hand, I doubt the chain brake would have been engaged. So, if you are using the gloves to protect your hand, the Class of PPE should be calculated on the chain speed without the brake engaged.

Theoretically true. But I as yet cannot envision how a running chain would get to my left hand in any position but cutting with the saw upright and my hand on top of the handle, in which case the chain brake would likely engage before it could get to my hand. When the saw is horizontal, as in felling, my hand would not be behind the chain brake lever, but I don't see how the bar would get to my left hand in a felling position, even when bore cutting. I guess I have not seen the physics of all possible movements. Anyway, as an advanced amateur, not a pro, I try to avoid cutting situations I judge to be beyond my capabilities. I have hired pros for some jobs. Sometimes I barter the saw log for the services, and I take the tops for firewood. I recently did this for a white oak that got blown down. It had a sawlog of about 36" at the butt end and maybe 24" at the top end, about 36-40 feet long. It was attached to its root ball but pretty hung up among other trees, as it had a pretty full crown. (Probably why the wind blew it down.) I got close to 2 cords of firewood from the top. I figured it was a good deal, as the logger had to bring out a crew, a skidder, a loader and a log truck for one tree.

 

[Hermio]

Not exactly.

There are EU standards.
There are US standards (plus a separate standard for USFS).
There are Canadian standards (BC had their own).
Australia, New Zealand, Japan, etc.

Some of the Clogger blogs (linked above) discuss and compare these, including differences in testing methods.

For example, ‘chain speed’, to me overlooks / ignores differences in stopping a 30cc saw and a 70cc saw.

So OK for meeting minimum standards, and, perhaps, comparing two items tested the same way, but the standards have limits.

Philbert

Yeah. I bought what was available locally so I could try it on for fit. I suspect that the higher-rated gloves might be a bit bulky or cumbersome, but I could be wrong. But no one carries those in stock here anyway.

 

[BeatCJ]

Yeah. I bought what was available locally so I could try it on for fit. I suspect that the higher-rated gloves might be a bit bulky or cumbersome, but I could be wrong. But no one carries those in stock here anyway.

I would suspect to get a higher rating, they would HAVE to be bulkier. Like chaps, pants or pads, to get better ratings you need some thickness.

 

[Hermio]

I would suspect to get a higher rating, they would HAVE to be bulkier. Like chaps, pants or pads, to get better ratings you need some thickness.

Interestingly, an earlier poster here said he cut two fingers off, but luckily was able to get them re-attached and regain most functionality. Chainsaw safety gloves would not have protected him from that kind of injury, as the chain-stopping fibers are confined to the back of the hand, as far as I know.

 

[Philbert]

I would suspect to get a higher rating, they would HAVE to be bulkier. Like chaps, pants or pads, to get better ratings you need some thickness.

Not always. Could have different protective fibers or design.

Philbert

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

....I think a significant portion are based on operator error. (99%, 99.99%?)

I agree, and to expand on that, if we're never tired, distracted, complacent, or in a hurry, and always plan everything out and think through all of what could possibly go wrong and plan for it, and there are no mechanical failures, that leaves everything to operator error. Being human I have a lot of that, experience is teaching me to compensate.

If you've thrown a chain you know how much force the chain catcher absorbs and why gloves are a great option. My thrown chains haven't hit me so gloves protected me from other unexpected hazards, a coworker (who runs loose chains) was not so fortunate. (@Philbert taught me how to sharpen chains so if one hits me I'd best be wearing PPE. )

....For example, ‘chain speed’, to me overlooks / ignores differences in stopping a 30cc saw and a 70cc saw.

And 25" of .375" is a world of difference from 36" of .404".

When 36" of .404 comes off the bar...

(Hard-nose is run loose, and I've since learned...)

 

[HumBurner]

I agree, and to expand on that, if we're never tired, distracted, complacent, or in a hurry, and always plan everything out and think through all of what could possibly go wrong and plan for it, and there are no mechanical failures, that leaves everything to operator error. Being human I have a lot of that, experience is teaching me to compensate.

If you've thrown a chain you know how much force the chain catcher absorbs and why gloves are a great option. My thrown chains haven't hit me so gloves protected me from other unexpected hazards, a coworker (who runs loose chains) was not so fortunate. (@Philbert taught me how to sharpen chains so if one hits me I'd best be wearing PPE. )


And 25" of .375" is a world of difference from 36" of .404".

When 36" of .404 comes off the bar...

(Hard-nose is run loose, and I've since learned...)

I'm far more afraid of chain toss than kickback, as chain-toss is pretty much out of the operator's control. Tiny twigs/sprouts are usually the culprit with little consistent reasoning (angle/angle of approach, too tight/too loose?, sudden buildup of debris in the bar/oiler hole, etc...)

I really like the rolly-style chain catchers, as they seem to stand a much better chance at grabbing the chain at one or more points, as opposed to the little slanted-catchers.

 

[Philbert]

I'm far more afraid of chain toss than kickback,

Gloves on the Right hand help there. Along with the chain catcher, chaps, and that wide, flat area under the rear handle, that many people think is just to put their foot on when starting the saw.

Philbert

 

[Hermio]

I agree, and to expand on that, if we're never tired, distracted, complacent, or in a hurry, and always plan everything out and think through all of what could possibly go wrong and plan for it, and there are no mechanical failures, that leaves everything to operator error. Being human I have a lot of that, experience is teaching me to compensate.

If you've thrown a chain you know how much force the chain catcher absorbs and why gloves are a great option. My thrown chains haven't hit me so gloves protected me from other unexpected hazards, a coworker (who runs loose chains) was not so fortunate. (@Philbert taught me how to sharpen chains so if one hits me I'd best be wearing PPE. )


And 25" of .375" is a world of difference from 36" of .404".

When 36" of .404 comes off the bar...

(Hard-nose is run loose, and I've since learned...)

I have thrown a chain a few times. They have never swung up above the saw in my experience. They always seem to go below it, making it more of a hazard for the legs then the left hand. Has anyone here had a thrown chain go upwards towards the left hand?

 

[Hermio]

Gloves on the Right hand help there. Along with the chain catcher, chaps, and that wide, flat area under the rear handle, that many people think is just to put their foot on when starting the saw.

Philbert

The safety gloves I looked at do not have the fibers designed to stop a chain on the right hand, but I suppose they are not needed for a thrown chain, as it will stop pretty quickly anyway.

 

[Hermio]

I agree, and to expand on that, if we're never tired, distracted, complacent, or in a hurry, and always plan everything out and think through all of what could possibly go wrong and plan for it, and there are no mechanical failures, that leaves everything to operator error. Being human I have a lot of that, experience is teaching me to compensate.

If you've thrown a chain you know how much force the chain catcher absorbs and why gloves are a great option. My thrown chains haven't hit me so gloves protected me from other unexpected hazards, a coworker (who runs loose chains) was not so fortunate. (@Philbert taught me how to sharpen chains so if one hits me I'd best be wearing PPE. )


And 25" of .375" is a world of difference from 36" of .404".

When 36" of .404 comes off the bar...

(Hard-nose is run loose, and I've since learned...)

Tiredness is indeed one of the biggest risk factors for accidents. I generally work with my saw 2 hours or less at a time to buck wood for firewood. I can cut 2-3 cords in that time. After cutting, I load up the rounds to put them in my woodpile. That takes longer by far than cutting them, and requires more physical labor. I get really tired doing that. But it is not very dangerous compared to sawing. Main dangers are dropping a round on my foot (But I use steel-toe boots), banging my shins, straining my back, and I must always be careful in my use of a hookaroon. It is a great tool but I never want to hit my leg instead of the log!

 

[Gardiner Schneider]

If nothing else, hearing loss qualifies as an injury.

What did you say?

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

I have thrown a chain a few times. They have never swung up above the saw in my experience. They always seem to go below it, making it more of a hazard for the legs then the left hand. Has anyone here had a thrown chain go upwards towards the left hand?

For me, there were a few times cutting brush with a small saw the chain peeled itself off and swung down and around, once if I remember it brushed the back of my right hand, nothing that would have been serious without gloves. Using semi-chisel and less angle on the top cutter solved that problem because no matter how tight I made the chain a small branch combined with small and aggressive chain led to a thrown chain eventually.

Doing landscaping (primarily) most stuff is small, when I have a big tree it's usually a twisty windfall so lots of planning, slow planned cuts, no thrown chains.

 

[Paul Bunions]

Here's some fine news. Every time I wear the gloves, they turn my fingers black.

 

[Hermio]

Here's some fine news. Every time I wear the gloves, they turn my fingers black.

Which gloves? The Echo?

 

[Paul Bunions]

Yes. I thought maybe it was dirt from working on my saws, but it's the gloves.

It would be pretty bad to need these gloves and find out they're Chinese fakes.

 

[Philbert]

I have heard of ‘white finger disease’ (serious) when operating a chainsaw.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/raynauds-disease/symptoms-causes/syc-20363571

Philbert

 

[Paul Bunions]

Well, I have cheap black dye disease.

 

[Paul Bunions]

Speaking of safety, I got whacked in the head today by a branch. I am dismantling a large, complicated fallen oak, the whole area is shrouded in grapevines, so it's hard to see what I'm doing. I cut a branch I thought was all below waist height, and when I got through, a connected part that was up over my head swung down and hit me pretty hard.

I examined everything very carefully before I cut, but the visibility just wasn't good enough.

I might have ended up in the ER without my Oregon helmet. I'm sure I would have had cuts on my forehead and serious bruising, at least. The branch hit the plastic and bounced off, and I went on cutting.

 

[Hermio]

Speaking of safety, I got whacked in the head today by a branch. I am dismantling a large, complicated fallen oak, the whole area is shrouded in grapevines, so it's hard to see what I'm doing. I cut a branch I thought was all below waist height, and when I got through, a connected part that was up over my head swung down and hit me pretty hard.

I examined everything very carefully before I cut, but the visibility just wasn't good enough.

I might have ended up in the ER without my Oregon helmet. I'm sure I would have had cuts on my forehead and serious bruising, at least. The branch hit the plastic and bounced off, and I went on cutting.

Which serves to emphasize that the saw itself is not the only possible source of injury. I was once pulling a fallen tree out of the woods. An 8" branch got wedged between standing trees, so I had to cut it off. I should have relieved the pressure by making multiple shallow cuts on the compression side first, but I did not know it at the time. I just made 1 shallow cut on the compression side and then cut on the tension side. When the branch let go, it jumped about 4 feet. Lucky for me, I was on the tree trunk side of the cut, so it did not hit me. Had I been in the way, I would have been seriously injured or killed. I said a little prayer to my guardian angel for that one. He has saved my butt many times in my life.