Echo or Stihl for firewood?

[charlesfarm]

Hello all,

I have been reading so much here and learning a ton from all the posts here -- thank you for sharing your vast knowledge! I just joined up today after reading thousands of posts during the last several days.

My wife and I are tired of spending $270 a month to heat our house with propane (forced air furnace). Our hot water heater, dryer, and stove are all electric and the electric bill runs an additional $120 a month! The house is an old farmhouse built in 1910 (about 2100 square feet), but the windows are newer and the walls filled with blown-in insulation. My wife's at home with the children during the day (we homeschool) so pretty much everything is running most of the time. We do keep the house at 67 during the day and turn it down to 50 at night -- makes a big difference in our propane usage.

With our income tax refund we will be installing a woodburning cookstove and will begin heating our home entirely with wood -- and cooking primarily with it during the winter months. My only saw is an Echo CS-3000 (w/ 16" bar) which I used last year to fell, limb and buck a black locust with a 22" trunk. That is a chore I do not want to repeat, so I plan to retire the little top-handle to cutting the smaller stuff. Since I will be doing all the cutting, splitting, and stacking myself, I need a solidly built and powerful saw for bucking and limbing what I figure should be about 4-5 cords a year.

I have an Oregon parts account (I do small engine repairs on the side for extra cash), so I can get their whole line at cost. I spoke to the local Stihl dealer and he quoted me a price of $517 for the MS361 without the bar and chain. I'd then run an Oregon Power Match and use LG chisel chain on it. I also talked to my cousin who is an Echo dealer and he simply quoted me the retail price of $399 for the CS520 (with 20" bar and chain). The Echo is a considerably smaller saw (50.1 cc vs. 59 cc) with an unknown BHP rating (I guess Echo doesn't rate the HP of their saws?) New in 2007, Echo is now carrying a 5 year consumer warranty on their equipment.

I have four questions:

1. Do you think the MS361 is overkill for what I will be using it for?
2. Does anybody have experience with the CS520 from Echo?
3. Should I be concerned that Stihl only carries a 1 year warranty versus the five year now being offered on the Echo?
4. Is a 20" bar too much, or should I stick with a 16 or 18?


Thanks a bunch, I'll finally close my mouth and hear what you have to say!

God bless,
Chris Charles

 

[Butch(OH)]

The 361 is a honey of a saw, the 520 is a very good saw. I like them both. For 4-5 cords a year the 520 would do the job well and the 361 would not be pushed at all but of course the 361 will, (and should) out perform the 520 in the cut. The 361 price will not vary much from dealer to dealer. The 520 can be had for a lot less than the price you were quoted. Money meaning nothing I would of course go with the 361 You can see my saw list below I own a few of both brands. There are no issues with either model that I am aware of and assuming they are properly taken care of the warranty is more cosmetic than anything else since any defect will show up quickly most of the time. Both will be happy to make occasional full bar cuts with a 20" but neither would be my first choice for all day cutting of 20" hard wood. Guess Iam saying its a pick'em, if you like top notch tools go with the Stihl, if serviceable tools are what you are after the Echo will not disappoint.

 

[windthrown]

Get the 361...

I have four questions:

1. Do you think the MS361 is overkill for what I will be using it for? No
2. Does anybody have experience with the CS520 from Echo? Echo, yes, CS520, no...
3. Should I be concerned that Stihl only carries a 1 year warranty versus the five year now being offered on the Echo? No! The 361 will outlast the Echo...
4. Is a 20" bar too much, or should I stick with a 16 or 18? No. A 361 will easilly drive a 28"bar and is commonly sold with the, out here in the wild wild longbar west. A 20" is fine. I bougt my 361 with an 18" and I am going to sawp that with the 20" on the 290. I am also getting a 24" bar for it. Several ponsider the 361 to be ideal with an 18" though. Depends on the trees you are going to cut. Hard small diameter oak? 18" wood be better. Larger maple and meduim stuff? I wood go with the 20".

From my personal experiece, which seems similar to your potential future... We have only electric heating here and it was $300+ a month. Last year we bought a Central Boiler outdoor wood boiler and we love it. We now heat exclusively with firewood. We use it for space heating and hot water. Electric bill went down $260 a month. It gobbles up about 5 cords a year and we live on a 105 acres lot, 85 acres in tall trees. We have all the forewood that one could ever want, just in windthrow. Hence my user name here on AS... anyway, we cut a lot of wood here, not just for firewood but also for Rx forest thinning, clearing roads, felling snags, etc.

Same as you, we have a CS3000 Echo saw with a 14" on it (the farm tramp saw, used day in and day out for fencing and limbing and road clearing, yadda yadda). It is a good top handle saw, but not ergonomic for anything more than cutting in trees with. On the ground you should really use a back trigger saw. We also had a Stihl MS290 with a 20" on it. That has done most of the larger felling and bucking and real wood cutting for the past year here. My girlfriend also has an Olympic (Italian) saw that has a 25" bar on it that I used for bigger felling and bucking. It is a pain to start though, impossible to get parts for and runs a different gas mix than the Stihl/Echo/blower/everything else here which is 50:1. I also had a painful time starting the 290 with no decomp valve. It can snap your wrist and fingers hard with starter recoil. It is a good saw, but wanted something with more anti-vibration and lighter with more power for a longer bar to replace the Olympic. After reading and posting here on AS, the collective talked me into the 361. I do not regret it. I got a great deal on a lightly used one. It starts easy, it handels differently than the Stihl rubber mount saws, but it blasts through the medium wood that I mostly cut here: alder and Doug fir. I am working on a modded 2nd muffler for it now... more power! Yum!

Don't get me wrong, I have had a lot of Echo tools and they are great. They last a log time if they are taken care of. But they tend to be more for medium use or prefessional destruction use (lot of tree butchers use them). You will be using that saw for a lot of firewood cutting in the midwest, where winters are a lot colder than here. You will also want a good all-around saw that has the power to rip through wood and light enough for limbing, bucking and all the ground stuff. The 361 is pretty solid and has a massive following here on AS. It will last 10 years easy. And still probably be worth 70% of its original value. Echo? Eh.... I do not see much great stuff posted about Echo here (I seem to be one of the few here that backs up their stuff, as I do like their small saws and blowers that I have used as a pro and homeowner). If I were you I would look more at the Dolmar 5100S as an alternative. I do not have any personal experience with that saw though.

Good luck!

 

[Patrick62]

Go for it!

Ain't nuthin' wrong with going with a 361. And, for some reason I like Echo as well. I have a 3400 top handle (excellent for the small stuff).

I Personally would go for the Stihl. The quality is good, the power is good. 18" bar is plenty most of the time.

I got a little more serious in the last year or two with firewood...

-Pat

MS 460
MS 440
MS 260P

 

[grandpatractor]

go 361

Welcome to AS, Chris.
I wood go with the 361 it you think he is a good dealer. They are supposed to be a good all around pro saw and good value.

 

[Brushwacker]

I would take the Stihl for several reasons. First it is much better of an overall saw with its extra power it can handle big blocks much more efficiently without pushing its limits. If you do not have a splitter it will work for slicing knotty pieces much better also rather then trying to pound through them with a maul. It is one of the most comfortable saws to run. It will hold its resale value much better if you sell it or trade in years to come. Even if you smashed it,blew it up,somebody would want it. The price on that echo sounds on the high side to me for what you're getting. I really don't know that model well so I could be wrong there.

 

[saxman]

I have to cast my vote for the 361. I have really been impressed with mine equipped with a 20" bar. They are a fine saw, not to knock Echo in anyway but I don't think you could do much better than the 361. Another plus on the Stihl side is a fairly extensive dealer network for parts and service support. I heat with wood also and really enjoy it, not only the savings in money but for the exercise and I enjoy the outside work. Have fun and be safe.

 

[buckwheat]

I believe that one can "over spend" on a pro saw when the volume of cutting involved can readily be handled by a homeowner, although less prestigious" model.

At 5 cords/year, I think you are right on the upper limit of a home owner unit, which is how I'd classify the Echo. I've had two of the smaller Echos, including the 3000, and I am sold that they are good reliable saws. I can't speak directly to the 520, but I would expect the same.

I think you can easily see the support for the 361 - it's a good saw, but you pay for it. My one thought is that as you gain more cutting skills and feel more confident as a wood tick, there is a tendency to go after bigger stuff. Whether felling or bucking large wood, the additional power will make the difference - not only in speed, but also in safety. There is a tendency to push a smaller saw rather than let it work at its own speed. That leads to mistakes, and every so often an injury. In this case, the more powerful saw, that you would be using on a fairly regular basis, is probably the safer saw as well.

I would recommend the 361 with both a 16" and a 20" bar. I know its said that it will handle a 24/5", but if you're into something that big, I would go with a larger saw. You'll probably be using the 16" bar 85% of the time.

One last piece of advice, since you're asking: get a 12" setup for the 3000. It will cut better; and it will become much easier to reach through brush and branches without getting in its own way.

 

[HUSKYMAN]

The Stihl is twice the saw that the Echo is and is certainly overkill. However I like overkill and believe in it firmly. Thats a pretty good price on a 361. Also consider a Husky 357XP, its a fine saw about the same size also, but $500 is about as cheap as they get.

If you can afford it go for it, otherwise the Echo will probably last you a good 5-10 years without much trouble if you take care of it

 

[goof008]

I currently run both Stihl (290) and Echo (345). I use the Stihl to get the tree to the ground and to cut it up to about 4"-8" dia. Then I whip out the little light Echo. I know the Stihl 361 has a lot more power and is lighter than my 290, but I am sure that the Echo you are looking at is lighter than both! I'd go with the Stihl, only because if something ever did happen, parts and dealers are easyier to find and the knowledge of people on here is going to make it easier to get that saw back into the woods! You might also want to look at cheaper Stihls like the MS390! It's a bit heavier than the 361, but has a lighter price tag!

Good luck

 

[windthrown]

Price vs perfomance

I currently run both Stihl (290) and Echo (345). I use the Stihl to get the tree to the ground and to cut it up to about 4"-8" dia. Then I whip out the little light Echo. I know the Stihl 361 has a lot more power and is lighter than my 290, but I am sure that the Echo you are looking at is lighter than both! I'd go with the Stihl, only because if something ever did happen, parts and dealers are easyier to find and the knowledge of people on here is going to make it easier to get that saw back into the woods! You might also want to look at cheaper Stihls like the MS390! It's a bit heavier than the 361, but has a lighter price tag!

Good luck

I almost bought a 390, mainly for the larger size and decomp button, and posted it vs. the 361 as a thread to the AS site. The collective talked me into the 361 for $100 more. I got a honey of a deal on the 361 (barely used for $100 less, actually) and I am happy that I flipped to getting it. More power, lighter, and overall it will last longer. You will be getting the best in class with a 361. If that is overkill, then so be it. If it is 'underused', then great! It will last forever, and you willl never be wanting a larger saw. We know we will... *sniff* the chainsaw gods will not allow that, will they!

 

[michael j]

Hi, this is my first post here and it looks like a good one to share my personal experience. Back around 1985 I bought an 028WB and it was a really good saw. All my heat comes from wood BTW. About 5 years ago I got a pretty good deal on an 046 Magnum demo. I still have my 028 but don't run it much anymore. A 20" bar on my 046 will eat anything I sink it into easier and quicker than struggling with the smaller saw. I guess in my ramblings I'm trying to say, buy the biggest, baddest saw you can afford. You won't be sorry. I see no overkill in having power. Just my .02. Good luck on your purchase.


Mike

 

[parrisw]

buy the biggest, baddest saw you can afford. You won't be sorry. I see no overkill in having power.

I agree, I got a smoking deal on a used Husqvarna 394 so couldn't pass it up, that thing eats anything I can throw at it, its a beast, I am just a avid firewood cutter, but love the power:hmm3grin2orange: Then I had to go buy a smaller saw too, so I got a Husqvarna 345-e. Those are my main saws, I also have a Husky L65, a crafstman 14" and a old Mac 250. So you see just one saw is just never enough.

 

[charlesfarm]

Thanks all for your advice even though my question was really >>>:deadhorse:

I just found out the other day that my little CS-3000 is not going to serve me as a limbing saw -- it's only producing 75 pounds of compression. I will keep it around to re-ring someday, but I won't be relying on it miles from home. Well, I started looking for two saws.

I went to a Stihl dealer in Des Moines and looked at all their saws. The 361 is a great looking saw. Fit and finish was superb, weight and balance felt great, and based on the feedback here, the performance backs up the outward appearance. Then I went to the echo dealer and looked at the 520. Felt flimsy to me and although it is probably a very able saw, it's not in the same class with the Stihls and not exactly what I am looking for.

Then I went to the Jonsered dealer (he's also an Echo dealer). Looked at the CS2159. Pretty nice saw, but was quoted a price of $500 for it and I feel that the Stihl is worth the extra $79. I also looked at the Echo CS-370 for use as a limbing saw, but I wasn't that impressed. The auto style air cleaner was a nice feature, but the choke control felt flimsy. I did think that $250 was a very fair price on that saw and would consider it in the future (now that you guys have me saw addicted).

I have decided that I would be buying two Stihl saws. An MS361 w/ 18" bar for felling and bucking. And an MS250 w/ 16" bar for my limbing. Now where to buy??

Called one dealer that's about 30 miles from me to see if he'd throw in a case for each if I came in there with cash on Saturday -- nope -- not even a little 2-cycle mix or bar oil, or a half-price chain ... nada. I forgot to ask if he'd throw in a orange toothpick, but my guess is no. He just lost out on a $900 sale + my future business.

Next call ... Des Moines dealer. If I bought both saws there, they'd sell me the saw cases for $20 each and maybe throw in some bar oil. Not good enough I told myself.

Third call ... Missouri. 50 miles away from me. Sure we'll throw in the cases. Only problem -- they only had one 361 in stock and two 250's and my income tax return won't be deposited until Friday. So me and my sons (7 yr, and 3yr) drove down there and put a deposit on them. Will be picking them up first thing Saturday morning.

I can't wait to start cutting some wood!! Thanks again for all your advice!

God bless,
Chris

 

[Jimfound]

Way to go Chris. Good luck...I am sure you will enjoy the new saws. I think its great you brought your "helpers" along in case the deal went shady

Tax return!!?? You already filed your taxes? Damn...you are on the ball sir!

 

[johnha]

Well if you're going to give the government an interest free loan of your money, you *should* get it back as early as possible.

 

[buckwheat]

Glad to see you're making out so well and finding what you want. FWIW - I have two saw cases, both of which are sitting out in the shed collecting dust. You'll need spare loops, files, wedges, PPE, maybe a spare bar; or possibly upgrade to solid bars over laminates; two cycle oil, bar oil, fuel cans, etc... Just food for thought.

 

[charlesfarm]

We have six children, so we usually get back a nice return every year and I want to get it back ASAP!!

I'm an Oregon parts dealer, so loops, files, wedges, bars, and stuff I will buy the Oregon brand. I am happy with their quality and especially the price! As for the carrying cases, I hope mine don't end up empty and in my barn, but time will tell.

I have loads of 2-cycle oil in my shop, but it's an "off-brand" and I ran it exclusively through my Echo CS-3000, and now that saw only has 75 pounds of compression -- (however, it is a "third-hand" saw, so it's quite possible that somebody else contributed to it's premature wear before it was given to me). I am going to get some Stihl 50:1 mix -- I really don't want to chance running the cheap mix in my new saws.

By the way, Stihl recommends 13/64" files for 3/8" chain. Oregon doesn't make a file in that size. Anybody used 7/32 files on 3/8" Stihl chain? Does it make a difference?

Thanks a bunch and God bless,
Chris

 

[dingo]

By the way, Stihl recommends 13/64" files for 3/8" chain. Oregon doesn't make a file in that size. Anybody used 7/32 files on 3/8" Stihl chain? Does it make a difference.


If it makes a difference I have been using the wrong size for a long time. If my math serves me correctly the difference is 1/64. I believe our standard size will convert to metric by 64ths.:biggrinbounce2:

 

[windthrown]

>>>By the way, Stihl recommends 13/64" files for 3/8" chain. Oregon doesn't make a file in that size. Anybody used 7/32 files on 3/8" Stihl chain? Does it make a difference.<<<


If it makes a difference I have been using the wrong size for a long time. If my math serves me correctly the difference is 1/64. I believe our standard size will convert to metric by 64ths.:biggrinbounce2:

13/64"? Dang.... I was reading through the sharpening stuff in my Stihl saw books and it looked like they recommend 7/32" for a 3/8" pitch chain that I have. But the 7/32" file that I used just does not quite seem to fit/sharpen exactly right. Stihl chain sharpening file sizes seem to be really cryptic. Like they want to to take them to the dealer for sharpening or something...

The Echo chain that we have takes a 5/32" file and it sharpens just fine.