Economical chain grinding

[fields_mj]

I had a random thought this morning (which can be very dangerous for me). I've used a few different ways to sharpen chains over the years (file, Dremel tool, timberline), but I've never used an actual chain grinder. I do some volunteer work with a group that does disaster relief, including storm cleanup. I remember seeing a video of a guy YEARS ago who did this kind of work, but he would go and just sharpen chains for people. He used a Dremel tool, and I'm guessing he either had an inverter or a small generator. If a guy were going to do something like that, is there a reasonable chain grinder that could be used in conjunction with a small generator? I'm thinking a person would want 2 or 3 of these (one for each size: .325. 3/8, 3/8 LP) so a high end system doesn't make sense. I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of a harbor freight type system. There are VERY few people that I've seen on these crews that are particular about their chains being sharp, so I would think that an expensive setup would be a wasted effort. However, we're normally cutting in a neighborhood somewhere where the trees have rocks, nails, wire and such in them so it would be good to have a way to make things sharp again rather quickly. I'm thinking of something along the lines of bolting a couple grinders to different sides of a 2' x 2' or 4' x 4' piece of 3/4" plywood and either clamp that to the tailgate or a portable table. Not sure if the $30 HF grinders are worth messing with or not, but a +$200 Oregon is certainly out of the budget.

Any thoughts, or ideas?

Thanks,
Mark

 

[Del_]

Don't take this the wrong way but sharpening chains for such a crew would be much like waking up in hell.

People who run dull chains are usually pretty good at getting them dull.

$200 isn't much of a budget.

 

[SimonHS]

There are various inexpensive chainsaw sharpeners available that work from either 12V car batteries or proprietary 18V batteries.

Here is a selection found in the UK. There will probably be more available in America.

 

[fields_mj]

Don't take this the wrong way but sharpening chains for such a crew would be much like waking up in hell.

People who run dull chains are usually pretty good at getting them dull.

$200 isn't much of a budget.

As someone who is known to have a bit of an obsession with keeping things sharp, I totally understand where you are coming from and I've met some of those people. I'm not going to say that such people are not in the groups that I'm talking about, but I will say that there are a lot more opportunities to dull a chain doing storm cleanup than what I encounter cutting firewood. I insist on keeping my chains sharp at all times, but I accept the fact that I'm not normal (in a lot of ways).

I know there are a number of "inexpensive" systems out there. I also know that there are people (like me) who would never be happy with systems like this and would insist on having a system that costs several hundred dollars if I was going to own one to use on my own equipment. I also know that places like HF, ebay, and Amazon have some cheap junk that's worthless at any cost, but they also have some stuff that does a reasonable job at a very good price. When it comes to grinders like this, I have way of knowing which one is which. In this application, the saw has likely run through at least 3 or 4 tanks of fuel, the chain was sharp to begin with and has not been sharpened since, and we'll assume it was only cutting clean wood. In my book, that chain is dull and I'm looking for a grinder that will get it 80% - 90% back to where it was at the start of the day. If a cheap grinder just won't do that job, then its good to know that now. However, if there are grinders that will do the job, it would be good to know which ones or (better yet) how to tell the difference so that only acceptable grinders are purchased.

 

[BeatCJ]

Read this. @Philbert does a great job breaking down the pros and cons.

https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/hf-chain-grinder-thread.268303/

tl;dr

They can be made to work, but you truly do get what you pay for. The Oregon 410-120 or Tecomec Evo or Compact are just over $200 and are supposed to be superior tools

 

[Philbert]

Mark,

Several issues in your post to touch on. I have volunteered with disaster / storm cleanup groups for many years, and consequently, learned a lot about chains and sharpening through those experiences.

Disasters are hard on chains. Volunteers are hard on chains. Sharpening them often requires more work than just touching up cutters after cutting some clean firewood.

For this use, I would recommend a full sized (5-3/4 inch), full powered grinder. The Tecomec ‘Compact’ is a basic version that can be purchased for $230 on eBay. I don’t recommend the clones.

Start with one good grinder, rather than 3, cheap grinders. I have run them off of small generators along the side of the road, during challenging operations.

For personal use, or light touchup, you can often get satisfactory results with the smaller (4-1/4 inch) grinders, but some of those are junk. Please note the referenced thread above.

My value choice is the Forester 04844 (identical to Oregon 310-120 ?) * if you replace the standard, fine, red/brown wheels with their coarser pink wheels.*



But these do not have the power to process a large volume of heavily damaged chains. The lower amperage motors, could possibly be run off of an inverter rather than using a stand alone generator.

Philbert

 

[fields_mj]

Thanks Philbert! I was absolutely looking at the "best case" scenario in my post, and that's not usually how it goes so your advice is absolutely warranted.

I wasn't sure how difficult it was to swap between a .325 setup and a 3/8 setup on a better grinder. When I worked as a machinist, chaining wheels on any kind of grinder (ie bench grinder or surface grinder) always involved re-facing the wheel to maintain balance. I assume that switching from .325 to 3/8 or low pro requires changing the grinding wheel and resurfacing/rebalancing it. If switching pitch is not a time consuming endeavor, then I can see where it would be MUCH better to have one decent grinder to work with.

The other question I should be asking here is about the learning curve. With every sharpening system I've ever used (not just for saw chains), there's always a bit of an art involved in getting a good edge. One of my assumptions here is that a chain grinder minimizes the "art" portion enough that a newbie could be trained to run it effectively in a very short period of time. With the group that I volunteer with, everyone who has enough experience to know how to sharpen a saw is either running a saw, a skid steer, or a mini. We often have one or two people who aren't running equipment. Sometimes they are busy playing gopher for everyone, sometimes they are busy helping home owners sort through what little remains of their worldly belongings, but towards the of the day there normally isn't much for them to do. If this is a skill that's easily taught (which is probably wishful thinking on my part), this would be something that could be done during that downtime.

 

[Mad Professor]

If you use an inverter, get a good pure sine wave one, or it might fry the electric motor(s).

 

[fields_mj]

My value choice is the Forester 04844 (identical to Oregon 310-120 ?) * if you replace the standard, fine, red/brown wheels with their coarser pink wheels.*

Just out of curiosity, what is it about these that you like better than the HF? I can't really tell by looking at it, but I'm guessing it has less plastic and the build quality (fit and finish) is better.

 

[blades]

Forester chain sharpener $157.78 model 78004. from Ahlborn Equipment This a basic grinder no frills. I have no personal experience with this particular one, am using a couple of the previous units. I do not know if it matches anything in the Tecomec line, the previous ones did. One thing that generally breaks on the tec/oregon is the spring that holds the wheel motor assembly up, those are about $12ea. I avg close to a 100 chains a month on these. Motors are holding up fine. But not as robust power wise as those on Tecomec/ Oregon. ( 2 pole vs 4 pole) 12V powered units -Bushes burn up, do not know if any are made brushless but that would drive the cost way up. As to driving with a genset I don't see a real problem there although the inverter units run quiter and use less fuel than the basic units.

 

[Philbert]

I wasn't sure how difficult it was to swap between a .325 setup and a 3/8 setup on a better grinder.

On a ‘standard’ Oregon / Tecomec grinder there are 2, metric, hex key bolts / screws: one for the small guard and one for the grinding wheel.

I replace the first one with a wingnut type bolt, so I basically have just one screw to remove.

Very easy.

I keep the extra wheels, and small parts, in a Rubbermaid container, with thin foam to pad the wheels.

Rebalancing is overthinking for this equipment and application, although, regular dressing is good practice.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Just out of curiosity, what is it about these that you like better than the HF? I can't really tell by looking at it, but I'm guessing it has less plastic and the build quality (fit and finish) is better.

It’s just junk. Read the referenced thread.
Just better to put the $30 towards a better grinder.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

The other question I should be asking here is about the learning curve. With every sharpening system I've ever used (not just for saw chains), there's always a bit of an art involved in getting a good edge.

There is a learning curve. Here is my standard advice (so often that I just ‘copy and paste):

“New to Grinding

Keep in mind that grinders don’t sharpen the chains: you sharpen the chains.

For guys new to grinding I recommend taking an old or ‘scrap’ chain, and experimenting with it, before you work on your ‘good’ chains:

- ‘play’ with every adjustment on the grinder separately, and see what each does to the cutter profile;

- intentionally try to overheat, or ‘burn’ a cutter, then work backwards to see how to avoid that (lots of small taps, no sustained contact );

- place a sharp chain that you like in the grinder, with the power ‘Off’, and try to ‘copy’ those angles and settings with the grinder adjustment (and write those settings down);

- profile the rim of the grinding wheel, with the dressing brick, then lightly dress the wheel once per chain loop, to continuously expose fresh, sharp, abrasive;

- practice, and don’t worry about speed - that will come with experience.”

Lots of comments and discussion here:

https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/511a-grinder-improvements-tweaks.197073/

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

I'm thinking of something along the lines of bolting a couple grinders to different sides of a 2' x 2' or 4' x 4' piece of 3/4" plywood and either clamp that to the tailgate or a portable table.

All of my grinders are individually mounted on a piece of 3/4” plywood, so that they can easily be moved around, stored, transported, etc., as well as mounted to any work surface with a couple of woodworking clamps.

I like to grind outside. I created a system to mount them on almost any step ladder, without drilling or extra clamps: portable, height adjutable, and almost everyone has a step ladder.




It worked well.

After a few years, I found some Oregon OEM stands on sale at a good price, so I thought that I would try them. I was actually impressed how stable they are, and they can be made very portable, by choosing easy to release fasteners, such as wingnuts, or using bolts that all loosen / tighten with the same hex key. .

I keep them broken down in a nylon storage bag, repurposed from a folding camp chair.

Very portable. Very easy to set up. Very sturdy.



Philbert

EDIT: Found a thread on this:

https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/oregon-554532-tripod-grinder-stand.348230/