One of the best video's on the subject I've seen 
Efficient Felling demonstrated by "Good Fellers"
- Thread starter weimedog
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Must be a tree where barber-chair isn't a factor........??
Quintessential hardwood cutter right there boys.
For over 25 years I cut mostly barber chair resistant beech and hard maple. Within the last 10, predominantly ash. I have changed my style over the years to include the bore cut as the ash are prone to barber chair but that seldom has happened to me.
So when you think about it, which applies to hardwood trees, every tree has somewhat of a lean to it. If you don’t have to do anything fancy such as a directional cut or something, then starting on the low side and boring right through to the back of the tree I never see much chance for a barber chair.
Typically the only barber chairs I’ve seen are when a notch has been put in the front of the leaning tree and then the felling cut starting at the back of the tree. The saw gets about halfway through the felling cut and POP. Barber chair.
99.9% of veneer loggers use some sort of this type of felling.
For over 25 years I cut mostly barber chair resistant beech and hard maple. Within the last 10, predominantly ash. I have changed my style over the years to include the bore cut as the ash are prone to barber chair but that seldom has happened to me.
So when you think about it, which applies to hardwood trees, every tree has somewhat of a lean to it. If you don’t have to do anything fancy such as a directional cut or something, then starting on the low side and boring right through to the back of the tree I never see much chance for a barber chair.
Typically the only barber chairs I’ve seen are when a notch has been put in the front of the leaning tree and then the felling cut starting at the back of the tree. The saw gets about halfway through the felling cut and POP. Barber chair.
99.9% of veneer loggers use some sort of this type of felling.
truth right here. The entire concept of working simply with a back cut trying to get to a good hinge before things move to the point where Fiber pulls & in more extreme cases Barber Chairs happen is frustrating to watch for me. Directional Felling, spur cuts, even jump cuts all techniques with bore cutting to where Barber Chairs and fiber pulls are minimized is my world. And of course when its important where the tree goes, enough hinge and face cut to not let the hinge break before the tree is going the desired way. ALL with leaving as little stump behind as possible. Surprising to me, most forums are dominated with felling advice where the board foot price is obviously low for the feller as demonstrated by waist high stumps and fiber pulls.
It isn't a bd ft price, it's a contractual thing. All contracts I dealt with, working for the Forest Service have maximum stump heights written in the contract. It's in the first few pages. Then there is a provision about utilization. If it's a contract where scaling is used, you can bet I'd get onto them about stump pull. If it is a pay before cutting sale, the forester for the purchaser would be on them. Also, it is a safety hazard for the rigging crew if the jagger is left attached to the stump.
In other cases, the land owner ought to have educated themselves and be out "checking stuff", after specifying stump requirements in their contract.
As to falling advice on forums? You get what you pay for or are willing to work for. I'm skeptical. I'm not a faller but can tell by asking other folks in the area and watching a faller work. Guess I'm an experience watcher? And, other fallers will tell you who to watch out for. There was one guy I was told to be extra careful around. He was starting out and "Don't see too good". That said it all. His work was OK, and he got advice and help from his coworkers. People tend to watch out for each other on a logging site. Usually, mostly, but not always.
Watching that was like a conversation with my logging buddy. Saw logs and veneer is a different world from firewood/ land clearing imo. Good video.
Yes it is about board ft. Especially in my world and the work I do. Lesson here is everything isn't the same as what you deal with or your work environment. Not all jobs start with a "forest service" contract. Most of the time the contract is about liability , percentages, and the incentives are about maximizing the value of a wood lot, and that means getting as much out of those tree's as possible. Most of the guys I work with will buy the timber on a wood lot and try to get every inch of useful board ft. , And that's certainly true when I cut my own timber & the farms around.
Around here most forest are harvested with feller buncher and wood moved with log skidders. To leave a high stump only invites trouble the next time that forest is cut. Skidder hitting those high stumps with give quite a jolt when hitting them.
How does a high stump increase board feet?
In this part of the world, high stumps decrease the potential volume. The only time high stumps make sense is to try to keep the logs from rolling down the hill, to keep a log deck in place on the side of a road--more steep ground, or to use for rigging. I'm probably missing something because I've not had coffee yet.
After the tree is on the ground, butt logs might be long butted if there is defect. However, the premium log in conifers is the butt log.
Is there something strange about hardwoods? I did not see any high stumps during my short time in Wisconsin, but 99% of the cutting was done by a processor.
In this part of the world, high stumps decrease the potential volume. The only time high stumps make sense is to try to keep the logs from rolling down the hill, to keep a log deck in place on the side of a road--more steep ground, or to use for rigging. I'm probably missing something because I've not had coffee yet.
After the tree is on the ground, butt logs might be long butted if there is defect. However, the premium log in conifers is the butt log.
Is there something strange about hardwoods? I did not see any high stumps during my short time in Wisconsin, but 99% of the cutting was done by a processor.
I use high stumps when trying to find sound wood in a dead/rotten/hazard tree to put a face/back in OR to counter a trunk with backlean at the base opposite the lay. I can reach 8-9' with my arms extended, so that's the extent, as I don't do ladders + saws.
That being said, the stump gets cut at the end.
Sometimes on logging jobs there is a "stumping out" phase at the end of the project. But I've also seen where they didn't come back to do that, even months after the last loads are out.
Ridgehiker
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I'm no logger but I do maintain the family tree farm, ocassionally I will cut a stump high so I can have more leverage to push it over and dig it out, other that that I cut as low as possible
That's the one I couldn't remember in my pre coffee brain. Road and landing construction.
Here is a hooktender cutting a rigging tree. It'll be a tail hold on a downhill yarding corridor. Note that he is making his cut high. We are at the top of the steep slope, where the slope flattens a bit and the unit boundary is located.
Yes. Hazard trees--dead and alive are cut in a way that the faller thinks best for their safety reasons. Another pre coffee forgotten reason.
The contracts I worked with had the large diameter (old growth) trees covered. The stump heights on those beasts were 1/3 of the diameter maximum. Exceptions can be agreed to. Also, stump height is measured on the uphill side of the tree.
A bit of a deviation from just cutting: Cruising old growth timber on steep slopes often required using a forked stick to keep the D-tape at DBH on the UPHILL side. Or, in some cases, a guestimation had to be done.
A bit of a deviation from just cutting: Cruising old growth timber on steep slopes often required using a forked stick to keep the D-tape at DBH on the UPHILL side. Or, in some cases, a guestimation had to be done.
When we cruised timber, diameter was determined about 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 feet up the trunk of the tree, this took into account butt flaring. In some cases like with extrema damage around the trunk one would have to assess the usable portion.
