Engineered Fuel vs E-Free Pump Mix

[Ethobling]

So, I've been on the fence about using engineered fuel (although I haven't used much in my lifetime...maybe only a gallon). I have heard it makes your saw run more hours and it burns cleaner, etc.

I was just thinking a little bit ago: "What does it cost to run engineered fuel instead of pump e-free mix?"

I did some rough math. Here's what I figured.

-Using a 361 as a baseline...

-Assuming an average pro saw runs for 2000 hours (If ran well, I imagine it will last longer):

-E-free pump gas ($5/gallon) + Mix @45:1 ($2/gallon): ~$7/gallon

-Tru-Fuel per gallon: ~$30

-A 361 holds 2.9 cups which is .18125 gallons. Based on loose information from this thread, I am assuming a conservative estimate of 2 tanks of fuel/hour of work.

Pump Mix Cost: 2000 hours * .3625 gallons/hour * $7/gallon = $5075 in fuel over the life of the saw

Tru-Fuel Cost: 2000hours * .3625 gallons/hour * $30/gallon = $21750 in fuel over the life of the saw

I can buy almost 14 MS462s with the cost savings by using my own mix over using engineered fuel.

The only advantages engineered fuel may have is increasing horsepower of the saw by some undefinable amount and being able to store for longer. It just doesn't even come close to being worth it in my book. If you want more power, just port your saw. The lifespan decrease you may or may not get by increasing the horsies from porting will be paid in gas savings.

Anyway, I can go into more specifics with my math and reasoning, if anyone wants. I tried by best to give conservative estimates to give Tru-fuel the best chance it could. For example, it only costs me $4/gallon for E-free pump gas and maybe only $1.50 max for mix per gallon, but I wanted to account for people who can't get it as cheap. I'll be honest and say I don't know if the 2000 hours lifespan is 100% accurate. That's why I'll include new calculations for 1000 and 500 hours below...

Pump Mix Cost (1000 hours): $2537.50
Tru-Fuel Cost (1000 hours): $10,875.00

Pump Mix Cost (500 hours): $1268.75
Tru-Fuel Cost (500 hours): $5437.50

And here's a super liberal estimate in favor of Tru-fuel, assuming you can find Tru-fuel for $15/gallon and your saw only runs 500 hours...

Pump Mix Cost (500 hours): $1268.75
Tru-Fuel Cost (500 hours @$15/gallon): $2718.75

Even with that super extreme math, you can still buy a whole new 462 with the fuel savings by using pump gas.

I'm open to corrections/clarifications. I'm doing this math late at night, so I'm tired, lol.

I think the main takeaway is this: your saw is going to run way more money in the way of fuel than your saw costs, many times over.

 

[The Shooters Apprentice]

Engendered/premix in a can fuel is for homeowners who can’t mix their own because they don’t have the combined brain cells of a house fly.

However, I do like higher octane fuel. I haven’t been able to get my hands on AV gas yet, but I’m currently running 90 octane fuel with Amsoil octane booster. I find that it greatly narrows the gap from where the saw 4 strokes at WOT and in the cut.

 

[KASH]

Just think how much you would save using pump gas and drain oil for bar oil.
Kash
Bermuda here we come.

 

[ballisticdoughnut]

I’ve experimented with several types of “engineered fuels” and I can tell you they are superior to pump gasoline. One that impressed me the most was VP T4 which is oxygenated, non-ethanol 97 octane. Definitely noticed an increase in performance. Alkylate fuel is also really good burns super clean. Not to mention the long term storage benefits. It’s worth it for the occasional user but for someone running saws for a living, I don’t see how you could justify the cost. Unless your customers are paying for it.

 

[Tomos770]

My approach is that....

When I am cutting trees/grass in a season.....normal pump gas....

When I winterize my equipement....I put 2-3dcl of Aspen fuel in it and run it for 5minutes....

So I have 5L can of Aspen fuel on a shelf.....and it last me for about 2-3yrs...

I do rotate my (pump) gas.....whatever summer "leftover" goes into my snowthrower and vice versa......and I dont care if I put 2stroke leftover mix into 4T engine....

 

[Ethobling]

I don't think having a little of TruFuel is a bad thing.

Years ago, when I was a kid, we had a couple small chainsaws that we rarely used. My mom bought TruFuel to run them and we still have maybe 3/4 quart to this day (it might be sour, now, but probably not).

It's good for long term storage, but E-free gas is also pretty decent for storage. I've had E-free gas stored in plastic 5 gallon jugs that's lasted close to 2 years in less-than-optimal conditions. I did put Stabil in them and one of the containers started to look too oxidized, so I used it to start some fires. Now, I am going to store my E-free in 55 gallon metal drums. I imagine the plastic in the containers is degrading ever so slightly and souring the gas earlier than if it was in a metal container.

I expect 3 years of storage with E-free Stabilized gas in completely full drums. Time will tell.

 

[HansFranz]

-Assuming an average pro saw runs for 2000 hours (If ran well, I imagine it will last longer):

2000 hours on a chainsaw? Really?
I have no idea, but that sounds like a LOT to me...

 

[Ethobling]

2000 hours on a chainsaw? Really?
I have no idea, but that sounds like a LOT to me...

It's probably the number I am least sure about, so I also did calculations for 500 hours, which is easily attainable under professional use.

My reasoning is this: a large company will usually run a 462 (or whatever pro saw) for at least 1 1/2 years before replacing it. Assuming a 50 hour work week (which, we know, we often do much more), that means about 3750 hours of use a year, assuming you take 2 weeks off a year.

Now, we know our saw isn't running all the time, so let's cut that number in half. 1875 hours over it's time with a pro company.

For reference, 500 hours would only be about 20 weeks/4.5 months.

This doesn't take into account that many pro companies usually get rid of saws simply because they start having problems starting and it just becomes a hassle (at least that was the reasoning for one of the tree-work business owners I worked for). They could probably do a good tune up and get them running well again. Even if that wasn't the case, these saws get thrown around and abused by the workers. I think 2000 hours for a professional who cares about his saws is definitely feasible.

Regardless, even with a tiny 500 hour runtime, the numbers don't lie; it's much too costly to run engineered fuel.

 

[Ethobling]

I have updated my original post with extra calculations for 1000 hours.

 

[Ethobling]

Update: I just talked to a logger friend who said professional sawyers often can get 7000 hours+ from their 461s before a saw rebuild. Granted, this is only 1 source, but if true, here are some new calculations...

Pump Mix Cost (7000 hours): $17,762.50
Tru-Fuel Cost (7000 hours): $76,125.00

If true, that's a crazy amount of money you're spending on gas (I'm not even talking about the Tru-Fuel cost). You will spend almost 15x the cost of a 461 in fuel before a rebuild.

Please note: I did not bother to update the fuel tank size for a 461 vs a 361. a 461 is about 3.37 cups. A 361 is about 2.9 cups. This would actually increase the final fuel cost number by about 16%.

 

[The Shooters Apprentice]

2000 hours on a chainsaw? Really?
I have no idea, but that sounds like a LOT to me...

That’s less then a year at 40 hours a week.

 

[jellyroll]

why not figure it with standard pump gasoline because a lof places don't have access to ethanol free and are forced to use 87-93 E10

 

[Ethobling]

why not figure it with standard pump gasoline because a lof places don't have access to ethanol free and are forced to use 87-93 E10

I wanted to give TruFuel the best case scenario. Also, I only run Efree because I have easy access to it at a decent price ($4.39/gal).

Also, with Efree, you are as close as you can get to TruFuel quality without having to find AVgas.

 

[jellyroll]

I wanted to give TruFuel the best case scenario. Also, I only run Efree because I have easy access to it at a decent price ($4.39/gal).

Also, with Efree, you are as close as you can get to TruFuel quality without having to find AVgas.

I can buy 110 race at the pump here but can't find E0 to save my life.

 

[Ethobling]

I can buy 110 race at the pump here but can't find E0 to save my life.

Then substitute your price for mid-grade E10. I guarantee you will still see similar results in price.

 

[jellyroll]

Then substitute your price for mid-grade E10. I guarantee you will still see similar results in price.

I mainly use 87 and have for years.

 

[rmotoman]

I mainly use 87 and have for years.

Yep been running 87 pump gas for 15 years. Never had a problem.

 

[jellyroll]

Back on topic.
With certainty canned fuels are good for joe schmoe homeowner who doesn't use much in a year or fire departments where equipment does more setting around than being used.

Last summer i ran nothing but Husqvarna brand pre mix in my trimmer to see the results and didn't like what i seen. White ash was present in the exhaust port and on the spark plug, internals was bone dry as well with no oil film present.

Now tru fuel or VP may be different i cannot say anything about that because i don't know. But can say my equipment ran better on pump fuel even though both was tuned accordingly for the fuels. Plugs and exhaust port was much better with a light coating of oil present inside the engine.

Your results may vary but the cost of the canned premix and the less than stellar results doesn't appeal to me the only real pro about it is storage life but i have seen canned premix that was already bad in the can.

 

[MacAttack]

When I see those cans of premix at Home Depot for like $25 or $27 for less than a gallon, it makes me very glad that I can buy ethanol free at the pump where I live very readily. It also makes me glad Im not a complete numb-nuts that can't mix some gas.
I've had great luck with ethanol free pump gas and mixing it myself. I've personally observed that premix staying viable for 3 - 5 years.
Unless I put it in my Canadien PM 270...the tank vent must leak air, gas gets stale in less than a year in it.

 

[Tomos770]

Back on topic...

Last summer i ran nothing but Husqvarna brand pre mix in my trimmer to see the results and didn't like what i seen. White ash was present in the exhaust port and on the spark plug, internals was bone dry as well with no oil film present.

Thats why I buy Aspen 4T (instead of already premixed 2T)....and mix oil on my own...32:1