EPA rules. Found this today

[sam-tip]

The EPA has several test methods for the testing of wood burners. They are giving the manufacture and option of which methods to use. Plus many states have there own test methods or differences in the test methods. Using Cord Wood may be the EPA's way of letting the manufactures of shooting them selves in the foot. From my wood burning experience different types of wood burn different and would generate different results. Most likely resulting in bad emisson results and giving the EPA a reason to shut us down or implement more control.

 

[Fred Wright]

It is political, like pretty much everything that comes out of Washington these days. Bureaucrats have to justify their positions.

Wood burners are what, six percent of the population, if that? Wood furnace and OWB users are a fraction of that 6%. We don't have a lobbying group or organization to advocate for us. Wood burners are low hanging fruit; we're an easy target for regulation.

Folks, this isn't about cleaning up the air we breathe. It's about the ability to publish a white paper and say "We're doing something about air pollution."

 

[fixit1960]

It is political, like pretty much everything that comes out of Washington these days. Bureaucrats have to justify their positions.

Wood burners are what, six percent of the population, if that? Wood furnace and OWB users are a fraction of that 6%. We don't have a lobbying group or organization to advocate for us. Wood burners are low hanging fruit; we're an easy target for regulation.

Folks, this isn't about cleaning up the air we breathe. It's about the ability to publish a white paper and say "We're doing something about air pollution."

Maybe a little more than just a white paper. Those of us who burn wood are pretty independent by nature. We are a little closer to being able to survive/go off the grid than the average joe. If you understand my point about the government wanting to make all of us dependent on them this could be viewed as a first step in more control over us.

 

[lone wolf]

Maybe a little more than just a white paper. Those of us who burn wood are pretty independent by nature. We are a little closer to being able to survive/go off the grid than the average joe. If you understand my point about the government wanting to make all of us dependent on them this could be viewed as a first step in more control over us.

Well not a first step

 

[fixit1960]

Well not a first step

Okay first "bigger" step. But as WS suggested, after a bank of lawyers reads through 300 + pages we may find out we can't burn at all. It's time to start calling our state legislators and putting the heat on them to implement laws restricting the Federal governments oversight in these matters. I feel it's none of DC's business. God knows they can't take care of those things they should have oversight of. I wonder how many jobs this scenario will add to the EPA.

 

[lone wolf]

Okay first "bigger" step. But as WS suggested, after a bank of lawyers reads through 300 + pages we may find out we can't burn at all. It's time to start calling our state legislators and putting the heat on them to implement laws restricting the Federal governments oversight in these matters. I feel it's none of DC's business. God knows they can't take care of those things they should have oversight of. I wonder how many jobs this scenario will add to the EPA.

Government keeps getting bigger. There are so many laws you would be amazed.

 

[fordf150]

Government keeps getting bigger. There are so many laws you would be amazed.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...ues-that-weve-become-a-nation-of-regulations/

“Behold my display of the 2013 Federal Register,” Lee wrote in the Facebook description. “It contains over 80,000 pages of new rules, regulations, and notices all written and passed by unelected bureaucrats.”

But here’s the part where you really need to pay attention: “The small stack of papers on top of the display are the laws passed by elected members of Congress and signed into law by the president [emphasis added].”

 

[lone wolf]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...ues-that-weve-become-a-nation-of-regulations/

“Behold my display of the 2013 Federal Register,” Lee wrote in the Facebook description. “It contains over 80,000 pages of new rules, regulations, and notices all written and passed by unelected bureaucrats.”

But here’s the part where you really need to pay attention: “The small stack of papers on top of the display are the laws passed by elected members of Congress and signed into law by the president [emphasis added].”

Who reads that crap?

 

[hanniedog]

Probably not even they people that wrote the crap.

 

[Whitespider]

Some will say this isn't a political forum and keep this talk out of here.

Sadly, burning wood for the purpose of heating, and especially the appliances used for that purpose, has in fact become a political hot button. The idea that you can somehow have a conversation about Firewood, Heating and Wood Burning Equipment without bringing some level of politics into it is ludicrous... after all, the soon-to-be heavily regulated appliance is the one piece of equipment you cannot be without if you're gonna' burn wood.

Who reads that crap?

Although places like The Blaze do tend to draw some far-out conclusions from presented facts... even tend to push an agenda at times... that don't mean the "facts" are false or manufactured. If I have to wade through a bit of far right-wing conspiracy conclusions to get the real "facts"... so be it. I don't have to agree with Glen Beck's conspiracy theories to appreciate the facts presented by him... facts that are difficult to find otherwise. I'm an adult, I can form my own conclusions... I don't follow anyone blindly. The Blaze simply passed on a picture posted by Senator Mike Lee on social media... the picture shows the ratio of regulation to legislation in the year 2013. It (the story and picture) ain't "crap"... it's the damn truth. You're throwing away the package without opening it, or even looking to see who it came from, simply because you don't like the guy driving the delivery truck.

"I am very short-sighted, and if I don't like a situation I take my glasses off." - Jenny Eclair
*

 

[Chris-PA]

I see the much-maligned softwood tests presently used as an attempt to make a consistent test, so all submissions have a level playing field - you would want that if you submitted a stove for testing. It may be quite difficult to come up with a hardwood test, or rather a test that reflects how you think a stove should be loaded.

And yes, our society tries to enforce conformity in all things. So if you burn wood for heat, grow food, drink raw milk or eat unprocessed foods, or use unconventional health care you are targeted both officially and socially. There is no room for anyone who does not adhere to the straight and narrow, and it's not just the gubermint at all. It's an ironic sign of desperation that the more the systems fail the more one is compelled to use them.

 

[fixit1960]

Sadly, burning wood for the purpose of heating, and especially the appliances used for that purpose, has in fact become a political hot button. The idea that you can somehow have a conversation about Firewood, Heating and Wood Burning Equipment without bringing some level of politics into it is ludicrous... after all, the soon-to-be heavily regulated appliance is the one piece of equipment you cannot be without if you're gonna' burn wood.


Although places like The Blaze do tend to draw some far-out conclusions from presented facts... even tend to push an agenda at times... that don't mean the "facts" are false or manufactured. If I have to wade through a bit of far right-wing conspiracy conclusions to get the real "facts"... so be it. I don't have to agree with Glen Beck's conspiracy theories to appreciate the facts presented by him... facts that are difficult to find otherwise. I'm an adult, I can form my own conclusions... I don't follow anyone blindly. The Blaze simply passed on a picture posted by Senator Mike Lee on social media... the picture shows the ratio of regulation to legislation in the year 2013. It (the story and picture) ain't "crap"... it's the damn truth. You're throwing away the package without opening it, or even looking to see who it came from, simply because you don't like the guy driving the delivery truck.

"I am very short-sighted, and if I don't like a situation I take my glasses off." - Jenny Eclair
*

Spidey, I may be going out on a limb here, and if I am wrong forgive me, I don't think lone wolf's reference of crap was directed at the "Blaze article". I believe it was referencing the huge pile of documentation representing the regulations passed.

 

[brenndatomu]

If this was as simple as making newly manufactured wood-fired appliances "cleaner" it could be written on a napkin

I think you meant to say "...written on a diaper", after all, this is the EPA we are dealing with here!

 

[lone wolf]

Spidey, I may be going out on a limb here, and if I am wrong forgive me, I don't think lone wolf's reference of crap was directed at the "Blaze article". I believe it was referencing the huge pile of documentation representing the regulations passed.

Yup! looks like the limb held up. And it is crap.

 

[babybart]

As I read this I am sure the educated responders know where this legislation started, it was in the original draft of the Affordable Care Act, aka Obamacare. That draft had how many pages of useless bable to find a sentence of intelligible writing that makes sense? All for anyone in congress that had a vote to put there legislation in and make sure they got "their say"! Well I consider my stove as important to my God given freedom as my rifles and shotguns that I feed my family with, my heirloom seeds that I cherish and from which I grow my non-GMO fruits and veggies with, and my ARs with 30 round clips to protect me and all that I pay my taxes for and work my fingers to the bone for!!!! Walk across my fence line to take any of that which they deem illegal, against their codes, against their regulations so we can pay for more people to be on welfare and live off their system and tell me I can't live how I wish... We will see!!! Rant over, back to beer and reading, carry on comrades!

 

[lone wolf]

As I read this I am sure the educated responders know where this legislation started, it was in the original draft of the Affordable Care Act, aka Obamacare. That draft had how many pages of useless bable to find a sentence of intelligible writing that makes sense? All for anyone in congress that had a vote to put there legislation in and make sure they got "their say"! Well I consider my stove as important to my God given freedom as my rifles and shotguns that I feed my family with, my heirloom seeds that I cherish and from which I grow my non-GMO fruits and veggies with, and my ARs with 30 round clips to protect me and all that I pay my taxes for and work my fingers to the bone for!!!! Walk across my fence line to take any of that which they deem illegal, against their codes, against their regulations so we can pay for more people to be on welfare and live off their system and tell me I can't live how I wish... We will see!!! Rant over, back to beer and reading, carry on comrades!

I was with you 100 percent till you said comrades

 

[babybart]

Friends, Homeys, brothers in arms, people of the wood.... Anything blow your skirt up?

 

[blacklocst]

E.P.A. Rules!

 

[fordf150]

It wouldn't be so bad if all the manufactures just banded together and all pitched in to pay for development of a standardized test. Obviously it would have to be approved by EPA but I've seen other industries do the same thing and it really is a give/take between the regulatory body and the regulated body. At least they would be able have some influence on the standard and also push back on EPA about the levels they want to institute. I personally don't see the harm in trying to make them cleaner and Im sure my neighbor would be happier if I had an EPA stove. I know I will be happier to have once too when I'm outside not breathing the crap that comes out of my current stove. Just my opinion.

and that is where manufacturers screw up. why should the manufactures spend a dime or a minute developing a test that just furthers their demise or makes their products more expensive (the more expensive it is the less people buy of it) to manufacture, develop, and market? The only real benefit from these regulations is less competition since the mom and pop shops cant afford to compete. with less competition comes even higher prices and less innovation/ fewer choices. that isn't good for any of us. I wont even get into the debate about the EPA having the authority to do this in the first place.


I didn't post this as a political piece. It affects all of us that heat with wood and in my case sell wood and the tools to harvest firewood. Wood burners are a very small minority that gets picked on simply for that reason. Regulating emissions from a wood burner will have no effect on total emissions in the world. 45.7 million dollars a year is the cost of these regulations shared between the 11 million people that heat with wood out of a population of 316 million. sounds expensive to me or maybe i am misunderstanding how they calculate the cost and who shares in the costs they calculate

 

[Chris-PA]

The only real benefit from these regulations is less competition since the mom and pop shops cant afford to compete. with less competition comes even higher prices and less innovation/ fewer choices. that isn't good for any of us. I wont even get into the debate about the EPA having the authority to do this in the first place.

Just to play devil's advocate - why aren't Chinese saws flooding the market here like they are in OZ? How is it the US made Poulan's with strato engines can compete? The emissions regs and the patented technologies used to meet them without performance degradation are wonderful protection.