Evaluating my "green" red oak

[DonB]

As I said in my intro post to the group, I heat the house with oak and specialize in live oak. We don't need too much to keep warm down here with the way our house is built. When I do firewood I usually lay in enough to last for a good four years at the time. Green live oak is a fine firewood to use. No problems at all and it burns hot and slow, same as after it's seasoned a few years. This year, however, I needed to utilize the recently killed half of a huge old lightning-split red oak from out behind the house. I netted about 400 ft³ after splitting and stacking. Since I've not used red oak, much less fresh-killed red oak, I was a bit concerned about it especially after reading some bad press on unseasoned red oak.

It's still a little early in the year to start putting heat into our house but I decided to build a fire in our Hawke insert last night to check it out. It was cold and windy yesterday with mid-30's forecast for last night so I just wanted a lightweight test fire. I wasn't going to use any of the live oak that I cut and split in 2004. I still have a rick of that left.

About 6 PM I lit off a fire of splitting trash, some red oak bark splits, a few pieces of 1" pine kindling and two 3" limb pieces. Once that was going good, I threw on a couple of the greenest splits of red oak and a gnarly hunk of crotchwood. This quickly made a very hot fire that produced very little chimney smoke even though it was dampered down with all the air intakes closed up tight. By 10 PM we had to open windows to let out some heat. At midnight I threw on a couple more splits and another gnarly hunk of saw-ripped knucklebone. At 7 this morning, even with two windows open all night, the stove blower set to lowest speed and the air intakes shut, it was 80° at the other end of the house with a dang hot fire still going in the stove

I guess this stuff will work just fine for me.

 

[willsaw4beer]

Ya I never burn it green but red oak is probably my favorite wood to burn. Supposedly hickory and locust have more btu's, but none that seems noticeable to me. (No osage orange or anything fancy like that up here...) Red oak burns long, hot, clean, and leaves good coals.

 

[LAH]

I've burnt tons of seasoned Red Oak over the years. Simply said: It's great stuff.

 

[arhillbilly]

it is also a pleasure to split

 

[Haywire Haywood]

it is also a pleasure to split

+1.. easy stuff to split. Unless it's a crotch or a real big piece like 30" dia, the weight of my 6lb maul falling pops it apart most times, at least the 16" long rounds I've been splitting lately. The big pieces get noodled about halfway through then popped the rest of the way. The rest is cake.

Ian

 

[Buckethead]

I was splitting up the last of my Red Oak today. I've got about 3 cord of wood, mostly Red Oak with some White Oak and some Maple mixed in. I love splitting the Red Oak....nice straight grain that pops really easy. Makes splitting very fast as the splitter rarely travels more than 12" and usually more like 6" to totally separate the pieces.

I'm really looking forward to burning it next season.

 

[Joshlaugh]

I cut a good 2 cord of red oak this past fall and agree with everyone that splitting it was pretty easy. I can't wait to burn it next year.

 

[blackdiesel]

We always burn green hardwood, creasote build up in the flue is the only down fall to it. IMO. Let the flaming begin

 

[Scrapiron]

Well....

This is my first year with an OWB. The previous owner burned anything and everything (green, pine, maple whatever fit). I've got about 1.5 -2 cords of seasoned sweet gum and had a huge load of fresh red oak dropped off. I spent a few hours today splitting (and using the chainsaw) on that wood. Sure is purty. I've thrown some of the red oak in, and as you say, it burns hot and long.

The previous owner steered me towards a local guy for wood. He's an old fella who lives by himself. I went over there yesterday to talk to him about getting some wood delivered. He said he could drop a 3/4 ton truckload of busted oak and hickory for $60. Freshly cut.

Well, I wasn't looking for green wood and $60 for green is a wee bit high (IMHO). He said he's been doing heating with wood all his life and he burns nothing but green oak / hickory. He said a few years ago, he tried just seasoned wood for a winter. Had to clean his chimney 3 times. When he burns green, he cleans it once at the end of winter. He said using green, the flue was cleaner as well. I'm not sure sure.

I was going to cancel (I said I'd take 3 loads to start with.. one load per weekend), but thought better about it. I figure, here's a guy who relishes being busy and needed and he's not that busy anymore. He also could use the money. I am fortunate enough that I don't need to be concerned (I am cheap though) about paying $60 for green wood. My wife agrees- she said buy the wood and season it for next year. This year we may need to find a 'seasoned' source of wood. Thankfully people are dropping off wood as well.

So I'm torn on paying for green wood, but ya know what, I talked to him for half an hour (and learned a lot about the area and him) and he gave my daughters some candy and bananas. Sometimes ya gotta pay it forward.

Long post to say, I'm going throw in some green wood and see how it does.

 

[DonB]

I clean my chimney every year (whether it needs it or not ). Some years I burn green wood but the two or three following years, I burn nothing but progressively older wood. To be honest, I do not notice any difference in the amount of gunk I scrub out of it from year to year. It's always about the same.

 

[Crofter]

Dont believe the green wood bs unless you also believe in perpetual motion machines or 200 mile per gallon carburetors..

I like red oak to be at least two seasons old and oneyear is just tolerable but you use noticeably more to get the same heat. Fresh cut is miserable to use in any kind of an efficient stove with reduced draft. You have to have it roaring up the pipe and that may indeed have the flue gas temperature hot enough to burn out the creosote but you waste a lot of wood in the process. If you try to damp it down it makes oodles of creosote.

Here is a clip that I think is fairly accurate. Link below to the whole article.

It is also useful to note how these concepts apply to un-seasoned (green) wood fuel. If only seasoned a short time, 50% moisture is a realistic figure. Then a two-pound piece has one pound of wood fibers (worth 8660 Btu). There will be 1.54 pounds of water to vaporize and heat up (taking away 2200 Btu). The two-pound piece has a net available energy content of 6460 Btu or 3230 Btu/pound. This is only HALF of the available energy present when burning seasoned wood. Green wood consumes the bulk of its energy just to keep itself going, and is obviously subject to easily going out.

A freshly cut tree has even higher moisture content, often above 60%. Similar calculations show that this fresh wood has only 2000 Btu/pound of energy available.

http://mb-soft.com/juca/print/311.html

 

[TallElf]

It appears to be 6 of one 1/2 dozen of the other. I myself burn a mixture of green/seasoned this year because I finally got my own saw so I jammed the wood stack with some dead, and some live knock downs. I am truly a scavenger when it comes to my burn pile. If it is round and barky,cut it and burn it. (sumac is an exception, that gets slashed and hacked and stacked for bonfires (only after 1 year of drying, then there is no smoke)

 

[stan v]

We lost a live oak and my neighbor lost a red oak to Hurricane Ike mid September.....helped him with the red oak of which I kept probably 1/2 cord, split and stacked at the time under an overhang by my home (breezeway, wind gets to it easily) on boards which are on a concrete foundation. Splits are less than 16" long and generally less than 4" wide, most maybe 3" or less. This wood is for my BBQ smoker (BubbaT)....I'm thinking by mid March or so this red oak should be good to go for the pit. The white oak has been split smaller still because I know it'll take longer to season.

Any experienced BBQ's out there?

 

[AIM]

I don't have the best luck burning green stuff. Especially fresh cut. I will say that it only needs to sit for about a month then it does alot better. I have no idea how much moisture is dried out in that first month but it must be a fair amount. I agree with the science that says btu's are lost burning green so I try to let it set for as long as possible.

 

[Ljute]

...If it is round and barky,cut it and burn it. (sumac is an exception, that gets slashed and hacked and stacked for bonfires (only after 1 year of drying, then there is no smoke)

Darn! I just threw some sumac into the pile to be split. What will be the problem when I burn it in the woodstove?

 

[DonB]

Dont believe the green wood bs unless you also believe in perpetual motion machines or 200 mile per gallon carburetors..

I like red oak to be at least two seasons old and oneyear is just tolerable but you use noticeably more to get the same heat. Fresh cut is miserable to use in any kind of an efficient stove with reduced draft. You have to have it roaring up the pipe and that may indeed have the flue gas temperature hot enough to burn out the creosote but you waste a lot of wood in the process. If you try to damp it down it makes oodles of creosote.

Here is a clip that I think is fairly accurate. Link below to the whole article.

It is also useful to note how these concepts apply to un-seasoned (green) wood fuel. If only seasoned a short time, 50% moisture is a realistic figure. Then a two-pound piece has one pound of wood fibers (worth 8660 Btu). There will be 1.54 pounds of water to vaporize and heat up (taking away 2200 Btu). The two-pound piece has a net available energy content of 6460 Btu or 3230 Btu/pound. This is only HALF of the available energy present when burning seasoned wood. Green wood consumes the bulk of its energy just to keep itself going, and is obviously subject to easily going out.

A freshly cut tree has even higher moisture content, often above 60%. Similar calculations show that this fresh wood has only 2000 Btu/pound of energy available.

http://mb-soft.com/juca/print/311.html

This is funny, especially the part I put in bold. What is obvious is this must have been written by a researcher who never burns green oak in a good stove. Every afternoon this week I've thrown a load of this wood onto the leftover coals (along with a coffee can full of splitting trash or a few bark splits) and within a short while you couldn't force it to go out without using a water hose. Maybe his definition of "un-seasoned (green) wood" means it was still growing leaves last month. My definition of green wood is a little different.

Even though I have a good supply of fully seasoned live oak (four years old) I'm still playing with the freshly cut red oak. It works just fine. It was 28° here last night. I loaded the stove at 10 PM and it was 76° at both ends of this (2400 sf) house at 7 AM. Since it was only up to 40° at 9 AM, I fed it a crotch piece to munch on til I load it up again late this afternoon.

Crofter, your statement really cracks me up too. You said, "Fresh cut is miserable to use in any kind of an efficient stove with reduced draft. You have to have it roaring up the pipe and that may indeed have the flue gas temperature hot enough to burn out the creosote but you waste a lot of wood in the process. If you try to damp it down it makes oodles of creosote."

This wood (like the green live oak I use every few years) burns so well that I have to keep the insert air intakes closed and the blower speed at minimum or it gets way too hot in here. That doesn't seem too miserable to me. BTW, it burns with very little chimney smoke. Most of the time I see little or nothing coming out.

I'm looking forward to the time my red oak supply is two years old. If it's as great as you say, maybe I'll only have to load my stove once every three days to keep warm

 

[Crofter]

What are you doing burning that wood in Alabama? When it gets as warm as that here I get enough heat just rubbing a couple of sticks of my dry wood together, and wouldn't even bother lighting it, Lol!

Yes you will notice how much more heat you get when its dry. Probably take you a whole lot less time than it would up here to season.

I can remember cutting green poles up after school with a buck saw for the nights burning. Yep I been there, done that, but when I have the option I know a better way.

 

[Scrapiron]

Donb- I have the same experience as you with my "green" red oak. It's not "fresh", but probably about a month since it was cut. It burns hot and long and I'm not noticing a significant amount of buildup (and no I don't get my OWB super hot).

I do mix it up with some year+ seasoned gum and so far so good. Again, this is my first year with an OWB, so I gotta use what I got this year.

 

[DonB]

What are you doing burning that wood in Alabama? When it gets as warm as that here I get enough heat just rubbing a couple of sticks of my dry wood together, and wouldn't even bother lighting it, Lol!

Yes you will notice how much more heat you get when its dry. Probably take you a whole lot less time than it would up here to season.

I can remember cutting green poles up after school with a buck saw for the nights burning. Yep I been there, done that, but when I have the option I know a better way.

Heheh, indeed we don't need that much wood down here. I have a real hard time going through a cord a year but I still enjoy saving the many hundreds of dollars a year I'd spend on heat pump electricity to keep this place at 65°.

Since I only cut firewood on an average of every four years, I do burn some green oak once in a while and it always does fine. I usually use live oak that got hurricane'd or died of natural causes but that stuff burns just as good fresh cut as it does after it's been processed for a few years. I don't have any fully seasoned red oak to use for comparison but I'm seriously pleased with the performance of what I have now.

I'm thinking my red oak may already be about halfass-seasoned compared to what you deal with up there. The tree was split down the middle by lightning and laid in the sun all summer until I got around to whacking it up a few weeks ago. I'm hoping the half that's still standing manages to hang in there for few more years until I burn up what I've got laid in now