Scrounging Firewood (and other stuff)

[Lee192233]

I'm really hopeful we'll see vocational education/ apprenticeship come back around. I really enjoyed shop, wood shop, and agg classes in school, and did everything I could so I could co-op in my 12th grade year through vo-tech. (Took diesel mechanics) which lead me to a career as a heavy equipment mechanic.
Sadly, there a re a lot of companies that won't even consider someone without some sort of degree for management positions. We just went through that here at work. They were looking for a new manager of maintenance, and some collage idiot with a liberal arts degree got the job over the guy that's worked here 20+ years and knew what's going on and how to manage the guys.
Really doesn't help the schools push the collage agenda ever harder every year.

That’s what happened in manufacturing, the large companies got away with apprenticeships programs for a long period, now there a large void of skilled labor, they figured it was cheaper to have stuff made in third world countries, rather than train people in our own country, see where that got them ,

Try running an automotive service business. For years they'd push the troublemakers and not so smart kids into auto maintenance classes.

Around here tool and die apprentices can make $30+ dollars an hour. Can't get kids that wanna work like that though.

I think a big problem is all these kids see the social media types making a crap ton of money basically doing stupid ****. Unfortunately the value of hard work is no longer taught by parents either.

 

[Squareground3691]

Try running an automotive service business. For years they'd push the troublemakers and not so smart kids into auto maintenance classes.

Around here tool and die apprentices can make $30+ dollars an hour. Can't get kids that wanna work like that though.

I think a big problem is all these kids see the social media types making a crap ton of money basically doing stupid ****. Unfortunately the value of hard work is no longer taught by parents either.

Yup , it’s hard to find motivated young people today, I can’t tell you how many apprentices I have to let go because of it , and lack of basic math skills they should of learned in high school or vocational school,

 

[ATpro]

I’m in manufacturing, and there’s a large shortage of skilled people out there , lots of to be made if you’re ambitious and want to put in the time and effort.

The thing is, the vocational ed helped me along the way. When I got out of the service went to work in the forestry industry. They hired me as a crew member of a timber cruising crew. The reason I got the job is my surveyor experience, wasn't long before I was running the survey and setting up the plots to be evaluated.

I went to school at night for forestry and obtained certification as a Prescribe Burn Manager. I started working as a contract Prescribe Burn Manager where I could handle the survey, setting up the boundary, establish fire lanes, do the environmental impact report, and manage the burn. As a certified Prescribe Burn Manager I could provide burn insurance for my clients.

When I decided to retire from forestry I went back to work as a butcher and then as a Market Manager. On the side I trapped, commercial fished, had a metal prefab shop, I kept the candle burning at both ends. Through all this, it was my back ground obtained in my youth through vocational training and time in the service .

 

[GrizG]

Not everybody goes to collage, a job in the trades can pay as much as one receives with a collage degree.

If you factor in the opportunity costs of college (not only the tuition, books, room and board, interest, etc., but also the money not earned while in school) and many college degrees have a negative return on investment. But that’s just the financial stuff… there are lots of other reasons for college beyond a paycheck. That said, I saw first hand while college level teaching that some people have no business in college… and my girlfriend (who has spent her working career as a professor, department chair and dean) would tell you the same thing. Making career decisions at age 16-18 is kind of absurd if you think about it. I used to be fond of saying kids aren’t real people until they hit about age 24 and have had some life experiences…

 

[sean donato]

If you factor in the opportunity costs of college (not only the tuition, books, room and board, interest, etc., but also the money not earned while in school) and many college degrees have a negative return on investment. But that’s just the financial stuff… there are lots of other reasons for college beyond a paycheck. That said, I saw first hand while college level teaching that some people have no business in college… and my girlfriend (who has spent her working career as a professor, department chair and dean) would tell you the same thing. Making career decisions at age 16-18 is kind of absurd if you think about it. I used to be fond of saying kids aren’t real people until they hit about age 24 and have had some life experiences…

I agree with that to a point. I've always wanted to be a mechanic, like even when everyone else wanted to be a fireman or cop, I wanted to fix things. Aligned my classes to that end.

 

[ATpro]

I agree with that to a point. I've always wanted to be a mechanic, like even when everyone else wanted to be a fireman or cop, I wanted to fix things. Aligned my classes to that end.

I did the same for vocational reasons, knew I wasn't going to collage. With a draft lottery number of "41" I knew I was headed to Vietnam. Got my draft notice 2 weeks after I had enlisted in the corps of engineers. Called the draft board up and said "sorry boys, I enlisted with the USACE".

 

[JimR]

Scrounging this morning got me 9 Oregon M72 .325 .05 18" chainsaw chains for $3.33 each. A local guy had bought a big box of Amazon overstock items cheap. Inside were 8 boxes of these chains. I bought 3 boxes for $30.00. There are 3 chains per box. Amazon gets $45 a box for these.

Yesterday I used an epoxy sealer on the front wheels off of my DK6010 parts tractor. These rims had the paint scorched on them. This morning the tires came in for it. Hopefully I can inflate the one flat back tire and roll this off my equipment trailer. Otherwise I will have to get a used tire for the rear axle.

On Tuesday I found a really nice set of trailer tires for my equipment trailer for $125. The guy had 5 mounted 8-14.5 tires w/rims. Then he threw in one unmount spare, the axle hub brake drums, bearings and backing plates. Then I asked if he had an ST 225/75/15 kicking around and he gave me a really good one of them for free. He converted this trailer of his to regular rims so that all of his trailers (4) use the same tires and wheels. This was a real deal for me and saved me a lot of money.

Now I am off to the automotive paint store to have some Kioti orange made to finish painting the wheels.

 

[sean donato]

Scrounging this morning got me 9 Oregon M72 .325 .05 18" chainsaw chains for $3.33 each. A local guy had bought a big box of Amazon overstock items cheap. Inside were 8 boxes of these chains. I bought 3 boxes for $30.00. There are 3 chains per box. Amazon gets $45 a box for these.

Yesterday I used an epoxy sealer on the front wheels off of my DK6010 parts tractor. These rims had the paint scorched on them. This morning the tires came in for it. Hopefully I can inflate the one flat back tire and roll this off my equipment trailer. Otherwise I will have to get a used tire for the rear axle.

On Tuesday I found a really nice set of trailer tires for my equipment trailer for $125. The guy had 5 mounted 8-14.5 tires w/rims. Then he threw in one unmount spare, the axle hub brake drums, bearings and backing plates. Then I asked if he had an ST 225/75/15 kicking around and he gave me a really good one of them for free. He converted this trailer of his to regular rims so that all of his trailers (4) use the same tires and wheels. This was a real deal for me and saved me a lot of money.

Now I am off to the automotive paint store to have some Kioti orange made to finish painting the wheels.

Not too long ago, we swapped my dad's car trailer from 14 to 15" wheels. Too hard finding good quality 14" trailer tires with the proper load range. Can't imagine 14.5" would be much easier.
Wheels look nice, and good score on the chains.

 

[Lionsfan]

Not too long ago, we swapped my dad's car trailer from 14 to 15" wheels. Too hard finding good quality 14" trailer tires with the proper load range. Can't imagine 14.5" would be much easier.
Wheels look nice, and good score on the chains.

Mobile homes were so popular around here 25 years ago there were mountains of barely used 8x14.5's on the rim for $20 and whole axle assemblies were often times given away. Not anymore.

 

[svk]

It has been impossible to find new tires for small diameter rims around here. When I see good tires for 14 and 15 inch rims I grab them and store them in the garage. This has come in handy many times versus having to order tires online. Really useful for older trailers and small cars.

 

[Arbor1]

Try running an automotive service business. For years they'd push the troublemakers and not so smart kids into auto maintenance classes.

Around here tool and die apprentices can make $30+ dollars an hour. Can't get kids that wanna work like that though.

I think a big problem is all these kids see the social media types making a crap ton of money basically doing stupid ****. Unfortunately the value of hard work is no longer taught by parents either.

A guy I know has a daughter going the automotive route. Honors, AP, wants to be a mechanic. From what I'm told she's one of a handful of girls in the class, but the class is packed. This is high school, but if they follow through and do all three years they walk out with some certifications.

 

[farmer steve]

It has been impossible to find new tires for small diameter rims around here. When I see good tires for 14 and 15 inch rims I grab them and store them in the garage. This has come in handy many times versus having to order tires online. Really useful for older trailers and small cars.

Most of the farm wagons and some of the farm equipment has 15" tires. Luckily my buddy has a vehicle or 2 that stihl runs 15s and I get them when he puts new tires on.

 

[WetBehindtheEar]

If you factor in the opportunity costs of college (not only the tuition, books, room and board, interest, etc., but also the money not earned while in school) and many college degrees have a negative return on investment. But that’s just the financial stuff… there are lots of other reasons for college beyond a paycheck. That said, I saw first hand while college level teaching that some people have no business in college… and my girlfriend (who has spent her working career as a professor, department chair and dean) would tell you the same thing. Making career decisions at age 16-18 is kind of absurd if you think about it. I used to be fond of saying kids aren’t real people until they hit about age 24 and have had some life experiences…

/Rant/
I think one of the biggest culprits in this whole skilled labor shortage is the Feds and Department of Education colluded in the late '80s & early 90's with statements to the effect that, "College educated people make 2-3x what a laborer will over their lifetime..."
They saw college education as a way to level the socio-economic gap that they saw widening (poor black and brown people stuck in the slums).
So DoEd said EVERYONE needs to go to college. Then changed entry standards to allow for (arguably) less qualified students to acheive admission to colleges and Universities.
They ALSO started giving money away to anyone who got in, taking BS liberal arts degrees, with NO HOPE of getting a return on their investment.
And NOW, 25-30 years later, we're crying about not having enough tradesmen/women.
AND they want fracking LOAN FORGIVENESS because they spent a bunch of government money with no marketable skills!
/Rant/
In southern WI -can't speak to other parts of the state- we're (finally) starting to addres this shortage and all of the unions have posters up in the high schools and many guys I know have kids apprenticing with IBEW or the Machinists Union or plumbers making $18-$20/hr learning a trade.
My nephhew in Portage is a Sr. in HS apprenticing with a plumbing outfit - he's a really sharp kid who *would* make it in college but he doesn't want that so more power to him.

 

[chipper1]

This is high school, but if they follow through and do all three years they walk out with some certifications.

Nice when you do the time and then get that cert, unfortunately for me, they changed it when I was a yr into the two yr program . The good thing is I was able to pick up the geometry, which was something that ended up helping me stick with high school.

 

[WetBehindtheEar]

Sorry - one more thought on this...
I am most definitely NOT a socialist/communist...
But if you take out federal loans on a college education that is in a field of study that is already saturated (liberal arts/general studies), I feel like the government should have a say in what course of study you take.
Just like the military - "Son, I know you want to be a sniper/pilot/tank driver but we're full up on snipers/pilots/tankers. Unless you're Annie Forking Oakley reincarnate with that rifle, we need more truck mechanics."

 

[benz66]

I'm really hopeful we'll see vocational education/ apprenticeship come back around. I really enjoyed shop, wood shop, and agg classes in school, and did everything I could so I could co-op in my 12th grade year through vo-tech. (Took diesel mechanics) which lead me to a career as a heavy equipment mechanic.
Sadly, there a re a lot of companies that won't even consider someone without some sort of degree for management positions. We just went through that here at work. They were looking for a new manager of maintenance, and some collage idiot with a liberal arts degree got the job over the guy that's worked here 20+ years and knew what's going on and how to manage the guys.
Really doesn't help the schools push the collage agenda ever harder every year.

IBEW, Steamfitters and Operating Engineers all have good apprentice programs. They all have great income. I had 2 cousins who were crane operators (operating engineer) and did very well. One did well enough he could afford to farm. My uncle and his son was/is a steamfitter. I've done pretty much all that, along with plumbing, building, concrete, etc, but never got paid that well. I had a friend who got in to the tool and die apprenticeship at Sheaffer Pen, back when they were in business, and he did well too, but I don't know of any formal apprenticships for that anymore. Good money to be made in most construction trades ... until the economy goes bust again.

 

[benz66]

If you factor in the opportunity costs of college (not only the tuition, books, room and board, interest, etc., but also the money not earned while in school) and many college degrees have a negative return on investment. But that’s just the financial stuff… there are lots of other reasons for college beyond a paycheck. That said, I saw first hand while college level teaching that some people have no business in college… and my girlfriend (who has spent her working career as a professor, department chair and dean) would tell you the same thing. Making career decisions at age 16-18 is kind of absurd if you think about it. I used to be fond of saying kids aren’t real people until they hit about age 24 and have had some life experiences…

3-6 yrs in Ol Unc Sugar's grunt squads (military) makes 'em grow up and figger out what they want to do to be productive. Then, if they really need college, and can afford it, by all means, go. College was/is used as a holding tank for immature brats until they grew up, or failed. A degree from the school of hard knocks is worth a lot more than a sheepskin in my opinion. The military can cram about as much in a mushy skull as a college degree in ONE year after basic.

BTW, the homeschool kids I have seen are as good at 18 as a kid with 4-6 years in the military or a BS, and with more than someone with a BA.

The opportunity costs of college are so high now, it is not worth it, even for engineer or lawyer. Nothing says you have to have a degree, you just have to pass the exams.

The goobermnt needs to get out of the student loan bidness, and out of education at all levels.

 

[GrizG]

/Rant/
I think one of the biggest culprits in this whole skilled labor shortage is the Feds and Department of Education colluded in the late '80s & early 90's with statements to the effect that, "College educated people make 2-3x what a laborer will over their lifetime..."
They saw college education as a way to level the socio-economic gap that they saw widening (poor black and brown people stuck in the slums).
So DoEd said EVERYONE needs to go to college. Then changed entry standards to allow for (arguably) less qualified students to acheive admission to colleges and Universities.
They ALSO started giving money away to anyone who got in, taking BS liberal arts degrees, with NO HOPE of getting a return on their investment.
And NOW, 25-30 years later, we're crying about not having enough tradesmen/women.
AND they want fracking LOAN FORGIVENESS because they spent a bunch of government money with no marketable skills!
/Rant/
In southern WI -can't speak to other parts of the state- we're (finally) starting to addres this shortage and all of the unions have posters up in the high schools and many guys I know have kids apprenticing with IBEW or the Machinists Union or plumbers making $18-$20/hr learning a trade.
My nephhew in Portage is a Sr. in HS apprenticing with a plumbing outfit - he's a really sharp kid who *would* make it in college but he doesn't want that so more power to him.

My brothers were journeymen union Tin Knockers. They went into their apprenticeships at a time when there were waiting lists to get into the union programs... you needed inside help to actually get in. Our uncle was that help... For them it worked out pretty well. They got their training and earned a good paycheck. Ultimately they were both disabled.... one due to a job site spinal cord injury and the other due to graves disease. For them it made a lot of sense to take that path as neither was "college material." They weren't "stupid" by a long shot but they weren't willing to go through the distributive requirements and other hurdles to getting an associate or bachelors degree. Now if they'd gone into a manufacturing technology, construction, welding, or another trade oriented program offered by one of the ag-tech schools it would have been a different story. The closest one of those was 70 miles away via mountain roads so commuting wasn't an option... and they didn't want to give up the local party scene!

 

[GrizG]

IBEW, Steamfitters and Operating Engineers all have good apprentice programs. They all have great income. I had 2 cousins who were crane operators (operating engineer) and did very well. One did well enough he could afford to farm. My uncle and his son was/is a steamfitter. I've done pretty much all that, along with plumbing, building, concrete, etc, but never got paid that well. I had a friend who got in to the tool and die apprenticeship at Sheaffer Pen, back when they were in business, and he did well too, but I don't know of any formal apprenticships for that anymore. Good money to be made in most construction trades ... until the economy goes bust again.

One of my uncles and his son, my cousin, were union steam fitters... both primarily worked as welders under that umbrella.

 

[GrizG]

/Rant/
I think one of the biggest culprits in this whole skilled labor shortage is the Feds and Department of Education colluded in the late '80s & early 90's with statements to the effect that, "College educated people make 2-3x what a laborer will over their lifetime..."
They saw college education as a way to level the socio-economic gap that they saw widening (poor black and brown people stuck in the slums).
So DoEd said EVERYONE needs to go to college. Then changed entry standards to allow for (arguably) less qualified students to acheive admission to colleges and Universities.
They ALSO started giving money away to anyone who got in, taking BS liberal arts degrees, with NO HOPE of getting a return on their investment.
And NOW, 25-30 years later, we're crying about not having enough tradesmen/women.
AND they want fracking LOAN FORGIVENESS because they spent a bunch of government money with no marketable skills!
/Rant/
In southern WI -can't speak to other parts of the state- we're (finally) starting to addres this shortage and all of the unions have posters up in the high schools and many guys I know have kids apprenticing with IBEW or the Machinists Union or plumbers making $18-$20/hr learning a trade.
My nephhew in Portage is a Sr. in HS apprenticing with a plumbing outfit - he's a really sharp kid who *would* make it in college but he doesn't want that so more power to him.

It's a good rant. I live near a Jr. HS, the one I attended many many moons ago. I walked through their property to get to the local park a few years back and peeked into the shops. The woodshop had computers sitting on the work benches and all the stationary tools were shoved into one corner. I didn't see any wood! Sad situation...