Ever hit a sprinkler line with a stump grinder?

[arbor pro]

I get a locate called in on the utilities but anything not locatable by the utilities is not covered for repair including irrigation lines. I've never had an issue with a homeowner understanding this and have only hit a few 'zone' sprinkler lines being 1" poly - very easy to repair. Never hit a pvc line and shouldn't - it should be at least 12" deep.

Of course, it all boils down to keeping the customer happy so, if you hit a line and failed to explain beforehand that you're not responsible for such, then you fix it to keep the HO happy and move on. Never hurts to ask the HO to pay for it and explain why but it all comes down to keeping them happy.

I don't usually think about signing a contract for a $60 stump but not a bad idea from a liability viewpoint. Always best to look for signs of irrigation before starting on a job and talking to the HO about potential damage.

 

[arbor pro]

THE MORAL OF THE STORY:

Pipes that close to the stumps were just going to be busted no matter what. In my book I say bust those things, get the stumps out, and repair the pipes, but not for free. If they want it done for free, then I will refuse to do the work.

Bingo. Just need to make sure the HO understands that stickly little point BEFORE you do the work, not AFTER.

 

[gr8scott72]

I assume there is an 811 here too. I need to start putting them on that whole pipe finding process before bringing the grinder. That spare part bucket is a good idea. The best idea is the ground probe, so I can find these things myself at very least.

Some of you guys exagerate a lot. None of your comparisions about dropping trees on houses or pulling out washing machines have anything to do with pipes no one could have known about. I here the ding though - the ding bat brigade. :spam:

Asking me to damage the ground around pipes without damaging pipes that the HOs don't have any idea what so ever about is a little bit on the pretender side. If they gave a "piece," they would have remedied this before grinding by informing me of pipe locations like responsible HOs. Instead they only became serious about them after I found them myself. They were jerking me around about it, and that is all there is to it.

I've got a thing about anyone in the world. I treat them like my neighbors because they are all part of the same community. Some neighbors I rub hard, but most I treat very respectfully. These people with the pipes just happened to rub me too hard, so I don't take them like adults headed in the right direction with anybody any more after that. It doesn't matter how old a person is. If they need to be tipped off that they are worthlessly disrespectful, I will deliver that hardened note. Otherwise some people just run around like they have no effect on people when they cut up on people like they do. In an area of 5 million + people, I'm sure I can stand to lose a few clients over disagreements about how a service man should be treated. He seemed to be kind of respectful towards the end of my stint at the property :greenchainsaw: I guess I know what I'm doing after all.

THE MORAL OF THE STORY:

Pipes that close to the stumps were just going to be busted no matter what. In my book I say bust those things, get the stumps out, and repair the pipes, but not for free. If they want it done for free, then I will refuse to do the work.

Huh?

 

[pdqdl]

Bingo. Just need to make sure the HO understands that sticky little point BEFORE you do the work, not AFTER.

Yep. That about covers it.

 

[teamtree]

Pretty simple fix....we hit them all the time....patch them and go....

I always ask the homeowner if there is anything to be concerned about as far as irrigation, electric, etc. If it is near the street I call in an underground locate.

But from now on, always ask the homeowner before you get started. If they tell you nothing to be worried about, have them sign a statement to that effect and they will be liable for any repairs....you are only there to grind the stump.

I have found that a few questions before you start or during the estimate can avoid many problems down the road. If they are cool about me saying...."if we hit a irrigation line....we will fix it and go on" then I don't worry too much about it.

 

[teamtree]

I think you are putting too much responsibility on the homeowner.....

Even if they are clueless.....you are a contractor working on their property and you should have gone through a checklist before you start the process, which includes asking the important questions.

I am not saying you are totally responsible but it sounds like you did not do your due diligence in this case. If you start to dig without knowing what is under the ground it is on you. Most people don't know where there irrigation lines are so you need to ask if they have an irrigation system. If yes, where is it? If they don't know and can't mark them, then you indicate the possibility of hitting them and who will be responsible for the repair.

I ask this question and explain the situation before I start then when I hit the line because they can't tell me where it is, then they can pay the landscape company to fix it or cover the cost for me to fix it.

 

[lone wolf]

I assume there is an 811 here too. I need to start putting them on that whole pipe finding process before bringing the grinder. That spare part bucket is a good idea. The best idea is the ground probe, so I can find these things myself at very least.

Some of you guys exagerate a lot. None of your comparisions about dropping trees on houses or pulling out washing machines have anything to do with pipes no one could have known about. I here the ding though - the ding bat brigade. :spam:

Asking me to damage the ground around pipes without damaging pipes that the HOs don't have any idea what so ever about is a little bit on the pretender side. If they gave a "piece," they would have remedied this before grinding by informing me of pipe locations like responsible HOs. Instead they only became serious about them after I found them myself. They were jerking me around about it, and that is all there is to it.

I've got a thing about anyone in the world. I treat them like my neighbors because they are all part of the same community. Some neighbors I rub hard, but most I treat very respectfully. These people with the pipes just happened to rub me too hard, so I don't take them like adults headed in the right direction with anybody any more after that. It doesn't matter how old a person is. If they need to be tipped off that they are worthlessly disrespectful, I will deliver that hardened note. Otherwise some people just run around like they have no effect on people when they cut up on people like they do. In an area of 5 million + people, I'm sure I can stand to lose a few clients over disagreements about how a service man should be treated. He seemed to be kind of respectful towards the end of my stint at the property :greenchainsaw: I guess I know what I'm doing after all.

THE MORAL OF THE STORY:

Pipes that close to the stumps were just going to be busted no matter what. In my book I say bust those things, get the stumps out, and repair the pipes, but not for free. If they want it done for free, then I will refuse to do the work.

So its the stupid homeowners fault you caused this damage huh? do you blame everything that happens on someone else if you did that to me and did not accept responsibility you better run away fast!

 

[oscar4883]

:agree2:

 

[pdqdl]

I posted a couple of questions; no answer yet!

1. How did you hit an irrigation line with pressure in it.
(irrigation lines DON"T have pressure in them unless the system is turned on. Since you wouldn't be grinding while the sprinklers were running, I suspect a problem)
In other words, how do you know it was an irrigation line? I'll bet it was a service line to some other water supply on the property.

2. How deep were you digging when you hit the pipes?


Non-answers to these important questions don't inspire us to have confidence in you.

 

[treeclimber101]

Listen a irrigation pipe is a five minute repair , and these :censored:heads that are calling you a hack for breaking a line are all hypocrates anyway , everyone breaks something once in a while and :censored:em if they can't admit it , but seriously though you need to communicate with the HO better and ask questions and when it comes to irrigation systems if they don't know where the lines are how are you gonna avoid them , there is no markout for pvc

 

[lone wolf]

Listen a irrigation pipe is a five minute repair , and these :censored:heads that are calling you a hack for breaking a line are all hypocrates anyway , everyone breaks something once in a while and :censored:em if they can't admit it , but seriously though you need to communicate with the HO better and ask questions and when it comes to irrigation systems if they don't know where the lines are how are you gonna avoid them , there is no markout for pvc

Its his attitude that the homeowner should know that bothers me!

 

[treeclimber101]

Seriously on a unrelated story , last winter I removed a oak tree at a business and had markouts and knew where the sprinklers were , long story short I crushed a schedule 40 drain line for a sump pump and the basement flooded a week later the owner called me , I went out there exposed the break cut it repaired it and cleaned the line with a jet pump, then charged him 800.00 for the repair he was a little taken back but guess what I'm not a mind reader if theres somethings as significant as that in the ground because of previous drainage issues than he should have known where it was and made me aware of it .....

 

[lone wolf]

Seriously on a unrelated story , last winter I removed a oak tree at a business and had markouts and knew where the sprinklers were , long story short I crushed a schedule 40 drain line for a sump pump and the basement flooded a week later the owner called me , I went out there exposed the break cut it repaired it and cleaned the line with a jet pump, then charged him 800.00 for the repair he was a little taken back but guess what I'm not a mind reader if theres somethings as significant as that in the ground because of previous drainage issues than he should have known where it was and made me aware of it .....

you are Lucky he didn't get a lawyer!

 

[treeclimber101]

Its his attitude that the homeowner should know that bothers me!

Well ya know what I know where each and every one my lines are and guess what I can take a cut shovel and find them in less then two trys so ignorance s not an excuse , every irrigation company gives a drawing for the system to reference at least something as a guide so if your gonna have a machine digging up your yard ya may wanna go dig it up..

 

[treeclimber101]

you are Lucky he didn't get a lawyer!

He coulda that would have been interesting to me to have a judge rule on it . I think that it would have gone my way , listen to the message when you call in markouts , they will notify gas water electric and cable including municipal sewer all others are the responsibilty of the contractor prior to starting I asked are there anything in this area that I should be concerned of and his answer was I don't know but what else could be there ...

 

[lone wolf]

anyone else here care to weigh in on who would be responsible?

 

[randyg]

It doesn't matter how old a person is. If they need to be tipped off that they are worthlessly disrespectful, I will deliver that hardened note. Otherwise some people just run around like they have no effect on people when they cut up on people like they do. In an area of 5 million + people, I'm sure I can stand to lose a few clients .

I heard it put like this: Leave a customer happy they hired you, and they will tell their friends. Make a customer unhappy, and they will tell EVERYBODY!

On the other hand: "Never give advise. The WISE don't need it, and the FOOLS won't heed it."

Hey, not callin names or anything, just sayin...

 

[treeclimber101]

There comes a point where your just fixing someone elses :censored:up plain and simple and why should I claim that mistake and pay a 1000 for my deductible have a loss run on my insurance I will not be taken advantage of , I meet every Owner prior to the work starts ask every question even as mondain as they seem and explain exactly what I will be doing on there property right down to when we take lunch break so If theres something missed it isn't by me ...

 

[Toddppm]

The only thing that seems to have been done wrong was not to let them know of the possibility that a line could be hit.
If I know they have a sprinkler system I write on the proposal that we're not repsonsible for damage.

I've never had a customer have a diagram of their system. I don't know if the installers don't give them one or they throw it away. Then again sprinklers aren't all that popular here either. Have repaired one that we broke when transplanting a shrub and others we knew we would run into ahead of time.

 

[pdqdl]

Listen a irrigation pipe is a five minute repair ,

... and when it comes to irrigation systems if they don't know where the lines are how are you gonna avoid them , there is no markout for pvc

No irrigation repair is done in 5 minutes. Even by the irrigation specialist parked beside the injured pipe.

Yes! There are ways of locating even a PVC pipe. Unless you specialize in irrigation, it will be cheaper to hit the line and then fix it.



Others have said that you can find a pipe with a probe, while preparing to do stump grinding. I won't say it's impossible, but it is sure unlikely to work in the root flare of an established tree. How would you tell a tree root from an irrigation pipe? Sound? Not real likely, since the roots will all interfere with hitting the pipe to begin with.