Explain this Tilliotson HS govenor to me

Wesspur
Rugged made
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good work guys , what a mob !
was having the same symptoms as mark after a tilly HL rebuild on my poulan 54, first time running.
this saw has a vane type governor so i thought it was that.
have never seen this type valve before, so just cleaned it, made sure the ball was free and put it back in.what the heck, it's there.
guess i'll unhook the vane and see what effect the valve is having,talk about double trouble. quit messin' with my saw !
 
TRI955 said:
Mark,

Ask and you shall receive!!!! I think you found your answer.

:cheers:
Mike
Click to expand...

Yep I figured I would! This place is just alright aint it? :clap:

Tomorrow I think I will try to block one off and if that works I'll try to find someplace to order a new one to try. They can't be that much, I wouldnt think anyway.
 
Modifiedmark said:
Basically thats what I did, and it worked out, but now I'm running out of carbs! LOL.


Thats why I decided to figure out a fix for them.
Click to expand...


Make sure they all have the same carb # on them. The 361, 306 and 245 all used the same 59A carb as far as I can tell but I found the 58B on the blade saw did have a smaller venturi on it.
 
Mark,

This governor is on a lot of Stihls--051, 075, 076, 045s?--I believe on some big Homelites--2100, 3100--and some big Dolmars--152, 153. Personally, I don't spend alot of time agonizing over the functioning of these valves. I've just punched out a piece of gasket with a hole punch, fit it into the hole, and reinstall the valve. Keep the carb a bit rich and you're good to go. Valves may be available as a new replacement.

Chris B.
 
There we go a man that has done it. I'll give it a try tomorrow. I don't worry about them either, as long as they work, but when they don't ..........

I think my SXL925 has one also. Like I said I never gave em much thought in all these years, till I ran into that bad one on the 306 which just about drove me to drink (like I need help with that LOL) trying to figure it out on my own.
 
HiOctane said:
If you want to bypass it,just cut a round piece from an aluminum pie pan about same size of hole and fit under the jet.Put the jet back and let the engine singgggggggggggg...
Click to expand...

Exactly what I did and that's exactly what it did!

I learned a good lesson here from you guys, thank you. I also learned that from now on anytime I do a HS the governor will be plugged off.

I tried the 306A that I never could get right and it has been sitting here for many months. It started and run like crap, just like it did before I parked it. I then pulled the carb and did the aluminum disk under the governor.

It started in 2 pulls and ran like brand new :rock: I had the carb set at 1 1/4 turns out on the high and low and the final adjustments barely moved from that. Went and tried it out and it ran super, just like it should.

I decided to finally fix the tank cover on the Dayton/245 since I finally found new gaskets for it. I started it up and it just didn't sound quite right either, and the carb adjustments were quite aways from factory start settings.

So you guessed it, I plugged the governor off on it, and low a behold it adjusted close to the factory settings just like the 306 did.

I tried it out also and all I can say is wow, now I remember how a good 245 runs! The rings are starting to seat in it now and man does it pull!

My other HS's seem to be ok, but if I ever take one apart or if it starts doing that rich BS, there getting plugged off too.

In fact I'm going out to see about putting this 361 back together and you can bet its getting the same treatment when I put the kit in the carb.
 
Modifiedmark said:
Exactly what I did and that's exactly what it did!

I learned a good lesson here from you guys, thank you. I also learned that from now on anytime I do a HS the governor will be plugged off.

I tried the 306A that I never could get right and it has been sitting here for many months. It started and run like crap, just like it did before I parked it. I then pulled the carb and did the aluminum disk under the governor.

It started in 2 pulls and ran like brand new :rock: I had the carb set at 1 1/4 turns out on the high and low and the final adjustments barely moved from that. Went and tried it out and it ran super, just like it should.

I decided to finally fix the tank cover on the Dayton/245 since I finally found new gaskets for it. I started it up and it just didn't sound quite right either, and the carb adjustments were quite aways from factory start settings.

So you guessed it, I plugged the governor off on it, and low a behold it adjusted close to the factory settings just like the 306 did.

I tried it out also and all I can say is wow, now I remember how a good 245 runs! The rings are starting to seat in it now and man does it pull!

My other HS's seem to be ok, but if I ever take one apart or if it starts doing that rich BS, there getting plugged off too.

In fact I'm going out to see about putting this 361 back together and you can bet its getting the same treatment when I put the kit in the carb.
Click to expand...

Mark, I did the same thing today to my 245 and wow! Did that thing come alive!. Then I went ahead and did the 5400 because it was showing the same the same signs of being rich and had the same results.

Such an easy fix it almost makes a guy mad that such a headache was so simple but all you can do is smile about it and call it a valueable lesson learned.

The only thing that I did different than you was I used the same gasket material that is used for mounting the carb.
 
John, I was going to use the gasket material also, but thought that it might be affected down the road by constant exposure to the gasoline.

The pie tin material worked slick. That is if you have the right size gasket hole punch.

Did your 245 carb screws end up real close to the 1 1/4 turn out setting?

I just got this old 361 up and running tonight and with the govenor blocked off it barely needed a screw turned with that 1 1/4 turn starting point.
 
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Modifiedmark said:
Exactly what I did and that's exactly what it did!

I learned a good lesson here from you guys, thank you. I also learned that from now on anytime I do a HS the governor will be plugged off.

I tried the 306A that I never could get right and it has been sitting here for many months. It started and run like crap, just like it did before I parked it. I then pulled the carb and did the aluminum disk under the governor.

It started in 2 pulls and ran like brand new :rock: I had the carb set at 1 1/4 turns out on the high and low and the final adjustments barely moved from that. Went and tried it out and it ran super, just like it should.

I decided to finally fix the tank cover on the Dayton/245 since I finally found new gaskets for it. I started it up and it just didn't sound quite right either, and the carb adjustments were quite aways from factory start settings.

So you guessed it, I plugged the governor off on it, and low a behold it adjusted close to the factory settings just like the 306 did.

I tried it out also and all I can say is wow, now I remember how a good 245 runs! The rings are starting to seat in it now and man does it pull!

My other HS's seem to be ok, but if I ever take one apart or if it starts doing that rich BS, there getting plugged off too.

In fact I'm going out to see about putting this 361 back together and you can bet its getting the same treatment when I put the kit in the carb.
Click to expand...

I had the same trouble with a Husky 2101 - the spring in the governor gets weakened over time, allowing excess fuel through. It works by supposedly vibrating at certain RPMS, so the ball vibrates open, allowing raw fuel through, so the motor rpms drop, so the ball stops vibrating and closes off the extra fuel so the motor speeds back up. Simple, but the springs get weak.

I was advised to use a carb welch plug to block off the governor - fits perfectly! And that 2101 really revs now!
 
Gregford said:
I had the same trouble with a Husky 2101 - the spring in the governor gets weakened over time, allowing excess fuel through. It works by supposedly vibrating at certain RPMS, so the ball vibrates open, allowing raw fuel through, so the motor rpms drop, so the ball stops vibrating and closes off the extra fuel so the motor speeds back up. Simple, but the springs get weak.

I was advised to use a carb welch plug to block off the governor - fits perfectly! And that 2101 really revs now!
Click to expand...

That welch plug sounds good, but it would have to go all the way to the bottom of the well. Might be difficult to get in there right.
 
Well I guess I'm a day late and a buck short to this conversation, but I was also having the same problems back in the winter with the 181SE that I ported - no matter what I did it would just chug along at what sounded like ~11K RPM, same as before I did the work. I did some asking and searching here and eventually found mention by Brad Snelling of encountering the same issue when modding a saw - if I remember right, the 076 he built from NOS parts but maybe not - and his solution was to split an aluminum can (beer, pop etc.), flatten it out, and hole-punch a 1/4" or 5/16" disc out of it. I guess pie plates would work just fine too, but me not being much of a baker there weren't any handy. :givebeer: Anyway, I did the same and long story short the 181SE screams like a banshee now. Up to that point I had done an entire carb rebuild (probably unnecessary in retrospect) AND replaced the carb with a slightly larger one (I think from a 288, but not sure). What made it really confusing was that the second carb was also governed, even though it wasn't necessarily the right one for that saw, which really threw me off. Had me questioning the porting work I had done even though all signs pointed to a fuel delivery issue.

I too have dedicated myself to blocking off the gov's on all future such Tillotsons as they find their way across the workbench. Mark, you mentioned that you thought your Homelite XL-925 had the same setup, and you're probably right. My XL-902AM is pretty much a carbon copy of a 925 and it does. My Pioneer P41 does also, and I'm fairly certain I remember seeing a couple others amongst my ever-growing shelf of project saws. I think the Mac 10-10 Auto was one of them.

It IS a good, cheap way of increasing the longevity of a saw for the average homeowner (much cheaper than engineering a rev-limited coil, I would imagine), though it makes it a pain in the neck for people who are a little more experienced with engine tuning.

EDIT: Did a bit of digging for old times' sake, here's the original post I remembered reading about this (and I did remember it as the 076 build correctly!):

http://www.arboristsite.com/showpost.php?p=1306863&postcount=120
 
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Gregford said:
Not at all. The carb welch plug fits perfectly. One of the guys on the forum advised me to use a welch plug and They fit so well!
Click to expand...

That is what I used on mine. The welch plug left over from a Walbro carb I worked on was perfect.

I tapped on it lightly with a small hammer to flatten it...then compared it to the small copper washer that was in the bottom of the governor bore and it was a perfect match for diameter.

Basically, anything that is fuel and heat resistant that will cover the inlet of the governor will suffice.

This thread should be made a sticky.
 
Oldie But A Goodie

I know this thread is a couple of years old, But I was having the same trouble on a newly rebuilt Poulan 306A and I thought it was a great fix and worked very well if the governor is not working properly. I just wanted to pull this card to the top of the pile and give thanks to the authors who's words are forever insightful.
Thanks, Nick.
 

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