Extreme lean + heavy on lean side + heart rot . . .

[Gologit]

Good post. Just what a Coos Bay is has been a source of argument for as long as I can remember.

The diagram with the examples of the T cut and the triangle cut is the closest to what I learned. Beranek's idea is a little different. Some other guy down the road might make a combination of the two.

Some guys don't face up a Coos Bay, some guys do. I like a little face in soft wood, depending on how heavy it leans.

Whatever works, safely and efficiently, is what a guy should use. If somebody can show me a better way I'll sure try it.

My argument with pdqdl's post was that he had no first hand knowledge of how to cut a Coos Bay...and it showed in his description of how to cut it. Well meaning but dangerous advice, taken verbatim by a newbie, can hurt somebody.

 

[imagineero]

Well, maybe I spoke out of turn. I've only ever known a coos bay to be the above pic with at least 1/3 of the sides cut out, none of that 't' cut or triangle cut stuff. I'm certainly not an old hand at the game, so I can't say with authority what a 'true' coos bay is, but the above pic is the one that makes the most sense to me. It has no real directional control beyond gravity, but it takes all the side fibres out and prevents chairing. It's also quick and simple, and works on large and small diameter trees where the bore cutting stuff is less practical. It's a pretty forgiving technique too; your side cuts don't need to match up perfect (but do be close please!) and the back cut doesn't need to be too perfect neither, so long as it's a little lower than the side cuts you'll stay out of trouble.

Plus, it explodes. What more could you want?

Sorry, we don't have guns or explosives in australia :-(

Shaun

 

[Gologit]

LOL...the "true Coos Bay" and what exactly it is, or isn't, or could be, or should be, has provided hours of argument, gallons of beer consumed while arguing, loud talk, bold claims, derisive laughter and the occasional page added to somebody's dental record when things got out of hand.

It's right up there with "which saw is better", "my boots are better than your boots", "what makes the best crummy", "my aunt is a better timber faller than you are", "whose turn is it to buy this round" and "where the hell are our paychecks" for getting arguments stated.

In my neighborhood the T and the triangle are the favorite. It's the way I was taught. Go over the hill a ways and somebody will be using Beranek's cut. If it works it works.

I've found though, that matching your cuts gives a little more predictability to the fall. A little face might help with preventing fibre pull and losing scale. And, on a heavy leaner, there have been a couple of times when a good fast saw was the only thing that kept it from 'chairing on me.
I could hear that tree talking and I didn't like what it had to say. :msp_wink:

And what's this about no guns or explosives in Australia? My kid goes to college in Brisbane and he says there's plenty of excitement around there. I'm probably better off not knowing too much about that.

 

[madhatte]

I know of the Beranek strip cut. I've never used it. I know of the "T" variation, and I've also never used it. I know, and have used often, the triangle. It's handy in sprung alder and hemlock, brittle, whippy stuff with a penchant for horizontal movement. I should mention, once again, that I'm a forester, not a logger. I cut stuff out of the way much more often than I cut it down. I seldom worry about scale. I am much more often concerned with the safety of whomever follows me down whatever road I'm opening up. Most of the time, if I can drive over, under, or through something, I won't bother cutting it at all. I don't have time. I have somewhere else to be.

 

[pdqdl]

No need to get shirty mate ;-)

...And no offense mate, but there's nothing about "trees" in "PDQ lawn and landscape". I give you credit, but you gotta give full time loggers some credit when you jump into the logging forum while advertising yourself as a lawn guy. Not sayin' you don't do trees, it's just that it's like the reception that you'd get if you operated a single handed day trawler and walked into a bar full of alaskan crab guys who just got back to shore and tried to compare techniques. Yeah, you're all fisherman, but... oh well, nevermind. I'l just grab another beer.

Shaun

I understand how most folks think, and I would never purport to tell you guys how to do any logging. That isn't what I do.

I am, however, quite expert at tree work, and the fact that I run a grounds maintenance company that does a whole lot more than just make stumps does not prevent me from knowing the answer to a simple question. I have tried pretty hard to not be "shirty", but when I provide an accurate answer on a topic I am quite familiar with, I don't expect anybody to get defensive about their protected turf.

Gologit, you have not yet explained how my simple answer is incorrect in ANY way. I did not present my post as a lesson in "how to", I only described the cut, which is a direct answer to the previous question.

The question was "what's a Coos Bay cut?" NOT "how do I do a Coos Bay cut?"

No need to get shirty mates ;-)

 

[pdqdl]

...
My argument with pdqdl's post was that he had no first hand knowledge of how to cut a Coos Bay...and it showed in his description of how to cut it.

Total BS.

Why don't you just admit that you were slamming my answer because I don't climb trees on the west coast?

 

[tramp bushler]

Simmer down all :msp_smile:
I really am amazed we got such a battle going. When the o.p. didn't do the cuts perfect ly but got the tree down safe and sound. Didn't get a saw smashed or anything else apparently.
I think he did great. Especially in 107+ degree heat. :msp_thumbsup:
I have a hard time getting past the ( drop, notch ect stuff. ) it's. Not just terminology. It's a way of thinking to get good results! !!
Tell any good bullbuck your gonna go drop a severally

thousand dollar tree. And he probably will tramp you on the spot. As usually when you drop something it breaks! ! .

 

[tramp bushler]

But. Tho the Timber beasts on the Loggin side may fight at the drop of a hat. And usually its a race to see who can drop their hat faster.
They don't short bus a guy for asking a question..
I'll be dipped if I can figure out why some of the arborists on the tree care forum are all uppity. . Some of the questions posted in 101 should be in tree care and climbing.
Especially when all they can talk about is gin+tonic on the tree trimmer side. Well maybe its not that bad. Pretty hard for me to take derision about any? I would have about anything to do with a tree.
I don't see how that has much to do with making stumps from the top down. And doing it safely.


.

 

[tramp bushler]

I guess I better just turn loose of it. No sense me being mad all day because of some piece of crap who got put on ignore.
By the way. On heavy leaners, I always put in a face. Usually not a great big one. Then Icut the sapwood on both sides on the holding wood. Then I either get with it on the backcut. Or bore thruhorizontally
With the bottom of the bar facing the outside of the back cut and cut my way out. I.m.e.there is a lot greater possibility of the tree sitting on the bar but a lot less chance of the stump pull grabbing the chain and taking the saw away from me when the tree takes off.



One trick that works well is to have the backcut a bit lower than your other side cuts. Just like a kerf Dutchman usually the tree won't take your saw via stump pull.

 

[Gologit]

Gologit, you have not yet explained how my simple answer is incorrect in ANY way. I did not present my post as a lesson in "how to", I only described the cut, which is a direct answer to the previous question.

Go back and read post number 12. The remarks I put in parentheses are the actual words from your post that I found wrong. You gave bad advice, pure and simple. You should know better.

 

[Sport Faller]

Total BS.

Why don't you just admit that you were slamming my answer because I don't climb trees on the west coast?

You seem a little extra butthurt, don't be such a sensitive bebe, I see you're from Kansas City, maybe you should just stick to giving advice about decent BBQ, Raising Cattle, and having a football team that chokes in the postseason

 

[rwoods]

Don't shoot - this is just a question, or three

Gentlemen, upfront - I have zero experience with this cut. However, from studying the diagrams, it appears to me that the primary purpose of this cut, and its varients, is to lessen the time in the backcut so as to hopefully out run a barber chair - correct?

Is not the question of a minimal, or no, facecut a question of trying to create a tipping point that is less likely to result in a barber chair?

I assume this was misspoken, "This removes enough strength from the stem to prevent a barber chair from starting." - It is the strength of the stem that holds back a barber chair and the purpose of the "T" or triangle is to preserve stem strength through leaving grains that would otherwise be severed with an ordinary backcut. Correct?

Ron

 

[Gologit]

Total BS.

Why don't you just admit that you were slamming my answer because I don't climb trees on the west coast?

'Cause it's not true. I pointed out what I saw as mistakes and bad information. I'd do it again.

Don't feel bad about not working on the West Coast. It's not for everybody. Somebody has to stay in town and keep the lawns mowed and the rose bushes pruned up all pretty. That's a talent 'ya know...you should be proud. Really.

Tell you what..I have a job coming up. It has cowface ground and it's mostly the timber that's too big for the feller-buncher. It's a couple of weeks work if everything goes right.
There's one canyon side with a lot of heavy leaners. They're heavy enough, and leaning enough that there's no way to lay them around the hill so I'll probably use the CoosBay on a few. They're old second growth, 36" and up, and they need to save out...that's important. Very important.

Come on out. You look after your room and board and I'll pay you what you're worth. One thing, though...if you splatter that fine second growth the guy that owns the trees might want to have a word or two with you.

 

[Gologit]

I assume this was misspoken, "This removes enough strength from the stem to prevent a barber chair from starting." - It is the strength of the stem that holds back a barber chair and the purpose of the "T" or triangle is to preserve stem strength through leaving grains that would otherwise be severed with an ordinary backcut. Correct?

Ron

Yup....I think he meant it the other way around.

The CoosBay is another good tool to have but I don't trust any technique to the point where I'd say it was fool proof.
If I ever find a method of cutting that's 100% reliable every time with no mistakes and no surprises I'll be a happy man. Beware of the "if I do this, the tree will, of course, do that" idea that so many people have. The tree doesn't care.

LOL...that's the reason that there's spikes all the way to the toe on calks...you can run for cover faster if you have good traction.

 

[rwoods]

Trees are like McCulloch chainsaws; you should not think in terms of absolutes beyond this truth - once you do they will bite you. In the case of trees they may kill you. Ron

 

[rwoods]

Some other common traits of trees and MACs: Every one is a different experience and you can't have experienced them all. Ron

 

[tramp bushler]

Some other common traits of trees and MACs: Every one is a different experience and you can't have experienced them all. Ron

Or don't want to experience any more of them than I already have. Cully's that is.
No offense mentioned Randy.
I think McCollughs got home sickness and would refuse to run the further they got away from their place of birth. That must be why Randy had such good luck with them.

 

[pdqdl]

You seem a little extra butthurt, don't be such a sensitive bebe, I see you're from Kansas City, maybe you should just stick to giving advice about decent BBQ, Raising Cattle, and having a football team that chokes in the postseason

The only advice I have on those topics is that even hoping the Chiefs make post season play is a fools notion. I think when the college draft comes up, they look at everybody's grades, and selectively pick the chumps that choked on all their finals. I gave up on the Chiefs about 30 years ago.

I don't know cows, and my wife does the BBQ. Don't laugh, she got 2nd place in the Farmland BBQ contest one year, and was going to be a judge in the American Royal BBQ contest. Come to think of it, she paid her way through college by raising cows, too.

I gots no butthurt, I just have a problem with folks that deliberately read things wrong because it suits their agenda.

 

[pdqdl]

...
Tell you what..I have a job coming up. It has cowface ground and it's mostly the timber that's too big for the feller-buncher. It's a couple of weeks work if everything goes right.
There's one canyon side with a lot of heavy leaners. They're heavy enough, and leaning enough that there's no way to lay them around the hill so I'll probably use the CoosBay on a few. They're old second growth, 36" and up, and they need to save out...that's important. Very important.

Come on out. You look after your room and board and I'll pay you what you're worth. One thing, though...if you splatter that fine second growth the guy that owns the trees might want to have a word or two with you.

I'd really like to take you up on that, but I'm afraid I won't. I'm not worried about getting paid what I'm worth; heck, I'd do it just for the vacation. I would have a lot of fun if the only thing I had to worry about all day long was where am I going to stick my chainsaw next.

Sorry, I don't think I trust you. It would be nothing but an invitation for abuse, scorn, and derision.

 

[slowp]

I'd really like to take you up on that, but I'm afraid I won't. I'm not worried about getting paid what I'm worth; heck, I'd do it just for the vacation. I would have a lot of fun if the only thing I had to worry about all day long was where am I going to stick my chainsaw next.

Sorry, I don't think I trust you. It would be nothing but an invitation for abuse, scorn, and derision.

Nope. I worked on a Gologit project and there was none of the above. He brings sandwiches and coffee.
No mayo on the sandwiches though. That's because it is a warmer climate than here. He doesn't even tease much when you get your saw stuck really good in a tree. Nor did I hear bad words when the nail or whatever it was was hit. (not by me).

I actually used the Coos Bay on an alder that was leaning. It worked. But I only have tried it oncet. I have not climbed a tree since 1980 something either. But I do live in the PNW/West Coast.