Extreme lean + heavy on lean side + heart rot . . .

[pdqdl]

...
I'll be dipped if I can figure out why some of the arborists on the tree care forum are all uppity...

.

They are, aren't they? Considerably worse than even the forestry and logging forum. Some us like to poke around elsewhere at AS, but my personal experience is that the only forum that isn't uppity is the chainsaw nuts. They seem to help everybody, even the rankest newbie, and the answers are generally without criticism or rancor.

 

[tramp bushler]

Some of them are. Shaun is great, D D , Pelorus, you, beast master. Ms200 .. there are several others. But several of them need a good beating.
No doubt some of them are good at what they do, but I'd bet a good sum of money they aren't as good or better at what they do than I am at what I do. I guess they never heard of professional coertesy.
Texas Timbers asked a question. Stated he didn't know, Bob answered his? Helpfully and far as I can see benifically. Didn't tell him to go get on the short bus.
Don't stress about Bob. He's a good Guy. He's given me an ass chewing a time or 2 mostly I needed it.
Big difference between an ass chewing and derision. I had to ignore the retired Norwegian army Zero and his buddies on the chainsaw forum. . Distance saves me busted knuckles. !!!!!

 

[pdqdl]

Bob?

 

[rwoods]

They are, aren't they? Considerably worse than even the forestry and logging forum. Some us like to poke around elsewhere at AS, but my personal experience is that the only forum that isn't uppity is the chainsaw nuts. They seem to help everybody, even the rankest newbie, and the answers are generally without criticism or rancor.

pdqdl, most us chainsaw nuts just enjoy the fun associated with chainsawing - whether it be the great outdoors, hotrodding, making something your own, restoring or collecting. Nothing too serious. And something that only a few do for a living. I trespass over here in the logging forum because it reminds me of times in my youth and I like to learn proven techniques. Things do get a little more serious here for lots of reasons. Chief among those is reaction to unsafe advice or advice which may be misunderstood and misapplied. Trash talking aside, I doubt the criticisms of your post were meant to be personal. And I would wager that you know more about safe falling than most chainsaw nuts, including myself. Much of your post was accurate and appropriately cautionary, but place yourself in the mind and shoes of a newbie with a saw and a leaner then go back and read your statements literally as a newbie would - I think you will see the reasons for the reaction. I could see someone whittling a tree down like a knife sharpened pencil or beaver style. I doubt you meant to leave that impression. I also doubt that you meant to imply that this cut is a guarantee against a barber chair. As Gologit read it, it was right for him to note it. I would dare say his viligence has saved a few lives around here. I for one am glad he speaks his mind. Ron

 

[rwoods]

Bob?

= Gologit. Ron

 

[Gologit]

Bob?

What?

 

[tramp bushler]

Gologit = Bob.
I think, hundred percent fer sure, maybe, perhaps.

 

[tramp bushler]

Treepedo. Is pretty cool too.

 

[paccity]

this one got the the business , heavy on one side and a lot more heart rott than expected . did not even come apart when it tipped . notch , side , side, gunit.

 

[pdqdl]

pdqdl, most us chainsaw nuts just enjoy the fun associated with chainsawing - whether it be the great outdoors...

Thank you for your balanced response. My response was not to a "newbie", but to a fellow that has obviously been doing big timber work in a very rough environment. His history displays that he can think for himself.

My point throughout has been that I was identifying the cut, not training someone how to do it. I answered the question, and I got dumped on for it. With respect to accuracy in my post, Gologit seems to be quibbling about minor expressions. Nothing I posted was inaccurate, nor misleading.

When he adds scornful remarks like how I need to return to mowing lawns and trimming roses, it is an obvious put-down. Now I have very thick skin, and my feelings are not hurt. In fact, I am accustomed to this every time I venture into his forum. But when somebody kicks me in the shin and talks down to me, I feel compelled to respond.

 

[paccity]

a few people lurking. :msp_smile: bob's being quite diplomatic i think.:msp_wink:

 

[hammerlogging]

I assume this was misspoken, "This removes enough strength from the stem to prevent a barber chair from starting." - It is the strength of the stem that holds back a barber chair and the purpose of the "T" or triangle is to preserve stem strength through leaving grains that would otherwise be severed with an ordinary backcut. Correct?

Ron

the barberchair is a slabbing effect. I think that cutting off the sides eliminates the propogation of the slab across/through the stem as the tension is released during the back cut.

 

[hammerlogging]

Not just terminology. It's a way of thinking to get good results! !!
Tell any good bullbuck your gonna go drop a severally

thousand dollar tree. And he probably will tramp you on the spot. As usually when you drop something it breaks! ! .

Yup. thats why we dump them. Dumping is a gentle pour. May I gently pour this timber, sir?

 

[hammerlogging]

One trick that works well is to have the backcut a bit lower than your other side cuts. Just like a kerf Dutchman usually the tree won't take your saw via stump pull.

this is why you release your own bore cut below your backcut, but if a bar is stuck in the tree casue it sat on your guy's bar cause he cut off the far side of his hinge when he bored, you release from above the backcut, it may want to grab your chain as it falls, but the stuck bar will remain on the stump when the tree goes.

Glad I could find some useful things in here, and once I edited out my smart ass comments, maybe I added something useful!

There are a number of people that participate in here that are not fallers or loggers and some are great, but not all.

 

[slowp]

I use the term, Launch.

Launching is a common procedure used when a pitch of ground is too steep for the skidder to reach. It can be used in the planning process.

Example:

On the rare occasion when an 'ologist is out with you looking at a unit, or has looked on their own and they express concern about the steepness of the hill and the distance to the top boundary. You say, "The fallers can launch the trees down the hill so they can tree length them out with the skidder." Our second growth trees are "rubber trees" they don't break up when launched properly.

Launching is also used near roads. Launching used to be done in the evil days of clearcutting old growth.
You'd see a faller standing on top of a rock, cutting a large tree. The tree would fly through the air and land below. Often there would be rolling of the tree for quite a ways. Old growth trees were not "rubber trees" and much of the tree would bust up in pieces after being launched. It looked like fun though. But you didn't tell them that. :taped:

 

[rwoods]

the barberchair is a slabbing effect. I think that cutting off the sides eliminates the propogation of the slab across/through the stem as the tension is released during the back cut.

Thanks, my pea brain is overloaded but I believe I am on the same page. Anyway I probably just stumbled over the way the process was phrased as I equated "weakening of the stem" as the polar opposite of preserving holding wood to prevent slabbing. Ron

 

[northmanlogging]

gees I'm just happy that nobody tore into me...sometimes eyes sez stupids stuffs eyes regrets

 

[tramp bushler]

I use the term, Launch.

Launching is a common procedure used when a pitch of ground is too steep for the skidder to reach. It can be used in the planning process.

Example:



Launching is also used near roads. Launching used to be done in the evil days of clearcutting old growth.
You'd see a faller standing on top of a rock, cutting a large tree. The tree would fly through the air and land below. Often there would be rolling of the tree for quite a ways. Old growth trees were not "rubber trees" and much of the tree would bust up in pieces after being launched. It looked like fun though. But you didn't tell them that. :taped:

Actually since working up tops has always been loathed And busting the first 2 logs is even worse. It was common on steep ground to run them out Down the mountain. When the ground is broke up across the hill if you fall a 180 foot tree into a 70' lay , running it down hill
Can save out anouther good log or more. Helicopter loggers ain't the only ones who can fly timber

 

[rwoods]

Ron

I see our mystery London poster has come and gone again. Same post as before. Ron

 

[Rounder]

Gentlemen, upfront - I have zero experience with this cut. However, from studying the diagrams, it appears to me that the primary purpose of this cut, and its varients, is to lessen the time in the backcut so as to hopefully out run a barber chair - correct?

Is not the question of a minimal, or no, facecut a question of trying to create a tipping point that is less likely to result in a barber chair?

I assume this was misspoken, "This removes enough strength from the stem to prevent a barber chair from starting." - It is the strength of the stem that holds back a barber chair and the purpose of the "T" or triangle is to preserve stem strength through leaving grains that would otherwise be severed with an ordinary backcut. Correct?

Ron

It's pretty much just minimizing the amount of holding wood that you have to deal with once you're ready to turn things loose....As oppose to just putting a face and proceeding with standard back cut. A heavy leaner usually isn't going to let you have much of a face to start with and will leave you with a whole lot of holding wood to chase. It'll chair when that small face closes shut and you're a mile behind in the backcut trying to sever holding wood that runs the full width of the tree..

Hope that makes sense Ron, no good at explaining things.