Falling a Big One

[rbtree]

Hi Tom,

As much time as we took lining this one up, I should have done that. I almost did, but would have used a 50 foot spencer tape.

stumper,

I just underestimated the size of the tree. When we felled it, everything broke up pretty much, so it took ages to chip it up, and that was only 60 feet of brush. 10 yards of chips and most of it duff that had to be forked and raked up, then shoved in to the chipper..UGGHH

I'll be lucky to get $1200 total for the job, but that will be about 60 per manhour. I can live with that...Plus we landed a $500 job next door. .and bid a $2000 one that won't happen for a while.

Now back when fir was paying $1260 per mbf, I woulda been paying the customer!!!

It all evens out. The crane and drop job next door will end up at close to $75 per manhr...On that one, I bid $3000, and the customer gets his price reduced by the log proceeds. This is a good way to go, as, if the job takes longer, but the logs end up worth more than I guessed at, I have bargaining power to get a bonus, ie, reduce the price a bit less than the log $. And with this job, I'll have at least 30% more wood than I thought, so maybe a nice bonus will be forthcoming.

I have a dump close by, so there was little down time. And never any tipping fees, as we have free dumps all over the place.

Look at this figured sequoia!! My friend removed the tree, and milled it. It could be worth $10 per board foot, if he can find a buyer.

 

[rbtree]

Kevin.

I know. I was bummed how it turned out too. But we needed a very open face. I would have had 20 degrees less up top and 20 more under. And David is a pretty nice guy, so I didnt razz him overly much...

The bottom log will probably be cut at under 36 feet, so it will likely be a domestic sort, paying $500 per mbf, instead of about 600. So the buyer may not mind a bit of snipe left, which is how I cut it. I may still square it off. We probably lost $20 of wood, but the foot I cut off had a bit more defect than where it is cut now.

We'll also get more scale by cutting shorter, plus at 44 feet there is a 7 inch spike knot that probably should be bucked out. Likely, we'll cut a 24 and an 18.

Speaking of open faces, with a tree that tall, big and straight, assuming good fiber in the holding wood, there is no way the direction of fall would have changed much if the face had closed at 45 degrees. But, with such a small space to work with, we took no chances.. besides the whole job!!

 

[rbtree]

Yo Rob..

almost soiled....

That's why I called in David to help me, for moral support as well as his experience. I was a lot more relaxed being the helper.

If I could post the 6 mb video, you'd see lots of camera shake! And that was before the air blast after it landed!!

Oh lord, please send us some more preservation jobs instead of all this tree killing!!
Like this historic, 6.5 foot dbh liriodendron (tulip poplar) we pruned and cabled:

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Fricking, fricking awesome! Eye-gasm again. i've felt that rush through several tight squeezes, this looks real tough, especially considering how much pix seem to 'belittle' tree work, making most things look easier or less awesome! Not sure i woulda stepped up to this one, especially if there was any decay, dryness, cat facing etc.!

Nice tip on the gunning 'stix' Tom! We use 2 equal length polesaws, once 2 equal rakes. But that is clean, simple, more focused length and available! Guess any line would werk, very nice.

i like longer hinges, achieved by coming almost to the half way point of the spar diameter, so that the hinge is in the widest part of the tree. But in such tight throws, i go for a shorter hinge across the face, for narrowed , more focused gunning. i believe that is because the most leveraged pull comes from the outside corners of the hinge, so the gunning would be a tighter funnel. So to achieve that i might not go as deep, or nip the corners if i needed to go deep to undermine the center of balance more.

We try to land the leading edge (generally top flair), and stump end on ~3' high brush mattresses to absorb shock and have less chain dulling on bucking. Or sometimes on solid log to spread out focused concussion. Sometimes at other points, for easier less dulling on bucking, softer landing for log and lawn.

Those are small points on this feat though, but just using these great pix to express and develop these things i keep seeking to understand and share.

Ya gotta know i'm raving jealous of ya even meeting Mr. Dent; so many things to thank him for, and ask too!

P.S. What tuned version of the stick trick did you use, for about how much accuracy over what length drop? How much jump from stump?

Enquiring minds need to know!

 

[FSburt]

Hey Spyder you have an interesting way of showing and explaing corner nipping. I was supposed to get recertified as a FS Chainsaw instructor in June at South Lake Tahoe Dent is the qualifing person for the Calif region class. this would have been the second time I would have met him and worked with him. Intresting dude with so much info and tips that 4 days are not enough to even scratch the surface. hey fellas see if this trick works for you when falling a big one. When you finish your undercut and have to get your pie out use a wide taper falling wedge in one of the corners to break the remaining wood. Usually don't have to use it unless you want a undercut with a gap instead of the 2 cuts coming to a pinch. G Baraneks influence in words there.
I use corner nipping pretty regularly when dealing with plantation pine because the wood is so strong on the corners. Plus you don't have alot of room to punch these trees through the others and any pulling to one side will hang the tree up. I use deep undercuts also to speed up the tree to bust through the limbs easier. PS I am supposed to go to class again because it got cancelled due to most of the people that were supposed to be there were out fighting fire in AZ and Col in june Oh and NMex too. I'll remember to take some pictures when I go and post them. It will probably be in the spring sometime. Hey RB when you are down with GB ask him what it was like on that scaffolding of that big assed redwood he took the top out of. Is that like the record for topping a tree size wise. Take care

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Why make it more difficult? If you get your geometry right with the apex, and the ears are cut after the face is cleaned out, you will be ok.

How many who cut ears, tuck courners or whatnot, do it inline with the apex or slightly under? Better yet, I'll make a new post and poll it.

 

[rbtree]

ears need to be under to best limit fiber pull and tear, by 1-4 inches, I'd reckon, based on size of cut.

Anyone have high speed inet, email me, I'l send some video clips. The files are 4-7 mb, as I have no software for editing or compressing...yet.

spidey, due to the 80 degree+ open face, there was no forward stump jump at all!!

and I just used a stick, sized for tip of fingers to eye length. was within 2 feet!!

and with a log that size, padding would have been obliterated.

All those branches held up the trunk enough to break it. i got a 16 foot top log, worth a whole $8, and only had to buck out about 8 feet of splintered wood.

On the 120 foot fir out front which I dropped in four pieces, branches on, we left each piece where it fell to protect the street and yard a bit. It worked, as a 25 foot, 490 bf section, with limbs on, fell from 46 feet, nosed into the street, and hit the top, which broke, but protected the street. The lawn was not very level, so we decided against using a crane for that one. It saved $100 in crane time, but we were lucky to have no damage. This tree scaled out at 1580 bf, plus the four feet i had to buck out to get to a 41 foot log, which wasted 100 board feet.

Think we shoulda left her like this, for a giant palm tree??:


uh, just say no to topping!!

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

It is okay to get obliterated after the job i guess, but the brush can do it before! Just something we do, that fuctions and is 'in path' of work flow! Kinda like quick recycling as far as using what is available for another turn. Any thing that gives dissiapates that much force, so how many ever pounds/tons of force you shedule that at is dissipated. Tires off the rim (especially truck tires) help in same fashion, like shock absorbing springs giving up and compressing to cushion fall. Generally if we use 'em, we put branches on top so we don't dull any chains, cutting and bucking near steel tire braid.

Just brainsstorming, especially as ya spoke of losing some log.

 

[rbtree]

you bet, bro, just not this time would anything have helped.

I have dropped 500 board foot logs directly onto the path of a sidewalk by putting wood on either side then logs crosswise, with tires both under and over.

And devised 6 foot high layered piles, tires and brush, to drop big chunks onto already broken cement patios. Used as many as 60 tires to protect asphalt from tip ends of 50 foot logs. Often, we lash em together, a pain, to keep them sort of together to withstand repeated attacks by falling chunkies. brush also helps to keep the bounce down.

Hey, i zipped out of a tree the other day, what fun!!

 

[mikey]

Good Job! Rb,I remember that "oh GOD please be with me"feeling I got when the back cut began on a huge sweetgum we dropped full length.I will never forget the speed and airblast of the treetop hitting the ground. You could hear it whistling as it came. Dont'ya love the feeling when it fell just right and the risky part is over.Good photos too.Keep us posted on the Beranek adventure.

 

[Nickrosis]

Safety First

I hope Tim W. didn't have a heart attack already....

Maybe his notch wouldn't have been so deep if he hadn't had his eyes closed because of the chips!

 

[kkirt1]

I have a high speed connection and access to a spot to store the video on the web so everyone can view it... I'm dying to see it. Email me @ [email protected]

 

[Woodstock]

Great job, men! I do think I suffer anxiety attacks just looking at the pictures! With fences, sheds, houses in the picture with each one beckoning, "Hit me!, Hit me!", a feat like this takes total mental focus from a truly skilled professional(s).... and/or guts and balls. Bet it shook the ground good when Mr. Tree met Mother Earth up close and personal for the horizontal bop. Is it true David was upset because the tree missed his personal intended mark by 9/32 of an inch and declared a do-over? Nevertheless, it was an amazingly accurate fall considering everything at stake. Did you grind the stump or level it off and leave it for a log splitting platform?

 

[Nickrosis]

Originally posted by kkirt1
I have a high speed connection and access to a spot to store the video on the web so everyone can view it... I'm dying to see it. Email me @ [email protected]

No! Me first!

 

[The Big Hurt]

SEND TO KKIRT1!

Send the video to kkirt1! I want to be able to see this from the site he has waiting to place it.....I am sure everyone else is anxious to as well. Can you get it on to your computer. If so send it to kkirt1 so we all can see this masterful work!
Barry

 

[rbtree]

I sent 3 to nickrosis, he had first dibs. They will be up by tommorow evening. We'll post the url then.

I have lots of vids, and will send kirt some others.

masterful?? well, euc man style, yeah.... delicate leaf licking oak man stuff...ummmm...well, maybe...

 

[rbtree]

Nick, you trickster...

Boy, that 15 hp 3120XP-G sure makes some big chips, eh. But eye patch size???

Just wait til i have Ken Dunn really fine tune it.

 

[kkirt1]

Thanks for the videos - nice chain saw!

Were you running because of a miscalculation or was that you pulling the rope

I couldn't get them to play on MS Player or Real player but played ok on Quicktime. Here they are... enjoy!

www.abicour.com/squeezeplay.avi

www.abicour.com/predator.avi

 

[Tim Gardner]

Roger, nice vid! Is it turned sideways for anyone else? I was using MS Player.

 

[rbtree]

Thanks, kkirt,

It came over before I was ready, really. with its favor in the right direction , it pretty much fell on its own. I was looking a John, who was in a pick up pulling the line, redirected from a block onthe tree truck, and saying pull!!! Wasnt needed.

Sorry, Tim. i have no editing software yet, and can do nothing, to rotate, compress, whatever....yet

I sent nick several that might be up soon, i'll post the url when I find it in my email...