Falling pics 11/25/09

[Rounder]

That pickup is not red.

And not mine thank goodness!

 

[Rounder]

Sam, you need a second saw?

I do....but the boss won't hire one.

 

[bitzer]

I see im not the only one who uses a soft dutchman in hardwoods...lol..it leaves a stump that looks like a beaver was at it but hey it works..d@mn well sometimes too...i've only had a couple that didnt co-operate with it but id say success rate is a little more than the fail so...but most trees dont take much more than a regular dutchman to get them to do what you want.....i've used a soft dutchman in combo with a siswheel on some really bad leaners and walked them away from 180 degrees to the lean...again it leaves a he11 of a stump but wtf..it worked and stayed with my current lay. But it has to have just the right amount of limb weight and lean to make everything work as planned...and you need a solid tree..no rot or failure will arise. It is also very easy to loose a tree over sideways with this method. I got a question bitzer..do you start your backcut with the higher cut or the lower?...i have expiremented a little bit and it seems that if you use the higher or the middle cut the results come out a little better in your favor.

Ideally you want your backcut and gunning cut to line up every time. Consant movement is key with this thing and with any swing cuts. It takes very little to stop the action and kill it entirely. If your backcut is low I think it will stall it out a little. I was actually playing with that today with regular dutchmans in the wind. They kind of held to the stump longer. Not to be a dip####, but....

This was one of my first real succesful soft dutchmans swinging from beyond the 100 degree mark. Roughly 180 from the lean. I used soft dutches a lot before in trees that leaned hard at 90s with heavy head weight. That ash was actually one of those 90s. It was probably at about a 45 to the ground and had a very heavy crown. As long as you've got sufficient holding wood for the tree the heart shouldn't matter all that much. Shouldn't is the key word there.
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[bitzer]

Nice view from the strip, double yarders, sunrise/moonrise. Hope you all had a good safe week -Sam


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Goddammit Sam! You've got the views!

 

[bitzer]

OK, I've heard it mentioned a couple of times now so what exactly does a siswheel cut look like?

This picture is kinda crappy and the stump is too, but here it is. Its the wedge shape cut out of the face where the leaf nestled in. That pull out of the back has nothing to do with it. I left that back piece of wood un-cut to help pull it around even more though. This ash was leaning way out there.

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[stihl 440]

This picture is kinda crappy and the stump is too, but here it is. Its the wedge shape cut out of the face where the leaf nestled in. That pull out of the back has nothing to do with it. I left that back piece of wood un-cut to help pull it around even more though. This ash was leaning way out there.

View attachment 217295

Thats exactly it right there, but i have never seen it used in tandem with a snipe...might have to try it. And i see you left a what i call a "post" pull it more in that direction as well...i also use oak's root flare or what i call a "canker" to hold them into your intended lay...and have had really good results.

 

[Dalmatian90]

I went googling soft dutchmen -- to my inexperienced eye they look like a good explanation, if you follow the links he wrote up a bit more explanation:

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tbN1sKN7IlI?version=3&feature=player_detailpage"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tbN1sKN7IlI?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>
Soft Dutchmen - YouTube

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/uvVY5jaY9jg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
"Ultra" Soft Dutchmen - YouTube

I was quite willing to try a bore cut after watching the videos on line and reading about it...this one I wouldn't even consider attempting without having hands on instruction I think I have half a clue why it works but I'd really love to see the physics of it working in real life to make sure I understand it!!!

 

[HorseFaller]

I went googling soft dutchmen -- to my inexperienced eye they look like a good explanation, if you follow the links he wrote up a bit more explanation:

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tbN1sKN7IlI?version=3&feature=player_detailpage"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tbN1sKN7IlI?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>
Soft Dutchmen - YouTube

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/uvVY5jaY9jg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
"Ultra" Soft Dutchmen - YouTube

I was quite willing to try a bore cut after watching the videos on line and reading about it...this one I wouldn't even consider attempting without having hands on instruction I think I have half a clue why it works but I'd really love to see the physics of it working in real life to make sure I understand it!!!

Totally! 101Hotsaws is the ****. Love his videos. Wish he posted more. Very informative. Have used both on fir and alder with perfect results.

 

[HorseFaller]

Thats exactly it right there, but i have never seen it used in tandem with a snipe...might have to try it. And i see you left a what i call a "post" pull it more in that direction as well...i also use oak's root flare or what i call a "canker" to hold them into your intended lay...and have had really good results.

Wait wait wait explain please. This is new to me. I know I'm pretty green to alot but now I'm intrigued. What does the the wedge in the hinge or just in front do? Is it meant to pull towards it cant(I don't think) its less holding wood. Someone enlightin me please. I fall alot of hardwood this could be helpful

 

[HorseFaller]

Crap talking about the "sis-wheel"

 

[Metals406]

I do....but the boss won't hire one.

Hire??

Hell, I just want to go murder 250 innocent trees for 7 hours and then go drink beer. . . On my dime!

 

[stihl 440]

Wait wait wait explain please. This is new to me. I know I'm pretty green to alot but now I'm intrigued. What does the the wedge in the hinge or just in front do? Is it meant to pull towards it cant(I don't think) its less holding wood. Someone enlightin me please. I fall alot of hardwood this could be helpful

It kind of extends your notch on that side if that makes any sense..it maintains control even after your notch closes..and kind of extends your hingewood on that side...so in theory if your swinging a tree say its lean is in the opposite direction of the siswheel and just like in his pic you want it to come around to the left...you put the siswheel in on the near side or your side from where the pic was taken...what it does is it keeps the tree swinging even though your main notch closed on that side..which is want you want really you want that binding action on the far side to make it walk around...you want that side or the leaning side to close and really its not too much of the butt swinging its the top..it'll sit out and then swing around..and when i use a siswheel i cut the far side off by putting in a regular dutchman...which will allow for the swinging motion to take place..and for that butt to rotate or roll if it needs to without hingewood on that side keeping it from doing so. And to explain how to put in a siswheel or how deep or how wide of a sis wheel you need well its impossible to explain over the net..and even if i do you might not understand what i mean anyway...its kind of something you have to learn in the woods...hands on. But watch some of hotsaws101 vidoes on youtube he gives you an idea and you can go from there. I think his name is jack (hotsaws101) and hes a pretty d@mn good softwood cutter...and saw modder. Another thing is for these type of methods is you gotta know what trees to put them in and what trees to not. It all depends on the ground, the lay, the crown, and the belly, and the soundness of the tree...all have to be working in the wrong way just right(if that makes any sense) for these to work in your favor. And if your swinging it you cant have other crowns in your way or it just wont work...its gotta be pretty clear. I have used this on some of these tall twisted up F**kin cherrys we have been cutting lately and cherry seems to work well with it as well as hickory, ash, beech, poplar,birch..and some maple...and its hard to get a cherry to do anything of that nature but i have had good luck with swinging and rolling them without busting them all up and pulling gobs of fiber which is a no-no as a hardwood timber cutter. I dont know how some of the softwood guys get away with it.

 

[bert0168]

This picture is kinda crappy and the stump is too, but here it is. Its the wedge shape cut out of the face where the leaf nestled in. That pull out of the back has nothing to do with it. I left that back piece of wood un-cut to help pull it around even more though. This ash was leaning way out there.

View attachment 217295

So does the wedge you left act as a kind of 'key' to rotate the tree away from it? In the picture you show, would the lean have been to the wedge side and the intended lay opposite?

 

[HorseFaller]

So what I can see it gives you a little more holding wood. It's not just a v cut out of your face in front of your hinge.

 

[Rounder]

Hire??

Hell, I just want to go murder 250 innocent trees for 7 hours and then go drink beer. . . On my dime!

Yep, you've got it bad Nate. I just want to go drink beer for a day, #### the trees!

Oh yeah, we'll be needing 300-350 out of ya. :msp_biggrin:

 

[Metals406]

Yep, you've got it bad Nate. I just want to go drink beer for a day, #### the trees!

Oh yeah, we'll be needing 300-350 out of ya. :msp_biggrin:

You may be on to something here. . . Call it "Timber faller day camp". Guys pay to cut trees for the day in the hip pocket of an instructor. Charge'em $350 for the day, which will include lunch (a baloney sandwich, Mountain dew, and baggy of Lays BBQ chips ).

Annnnnd, the logger gets free wood on the ground for the day!

 

[Metals406]

So what I can see it gives you a little more holding wood. It's not just a v cut out of your face in front of your hinge.

Yes, the siswheel maximizes your hold-wood by elongating the fibers, also the face is steeper on the hold side, so the other side closes first.

 

[056kid]

I was cutting alder off a tap line Friday with a co-worker. He cuts tall block faces in small trees with side lean. A big open block I like for standing up trees rather than trying to hold them against a side lean. I wanted to try and show him about a sezwheel without coming across as "I know more than you" I figured he would have known already . . He didn't, I think he took it well. But yea, some folks around here don't like right siders haha. Oh well. Hooking chrome ass steelhead every few casts less than 5 miles from home negates all the EXTRA friendly people! I landed a dandy buck over Christmas, almost 20 lbs!

 

[Gologit]

You may be on to something here. . . Call it "Timber faller day camp". Guys pay to cut trees for the day in the hip pocket of an instructor. Charge'em $350 for the day, which will include lunch (a baloney sandwich, Mountain dew, and baggy of Lays BBQ chips ).

Annnnnd, the logger gets free wood on the ground for the day!

Hmmmmm. Nah, forget it. I've never had to take tranqs yet and a batch of newbie fallers running around might change that.

Damn, can't you just see it though? It might be fun to watch. Kinda like that Monty Python bit where all the guys were trying different sport activities, flailing around and falling down a lot.

 

[paccity]

I was cutting alder off a tap line Friday with a co-worker. He cuts tall block faces in small trees with side lean. A big open block I like for standing up trees rather than trying to hold them against a side lean. I wanted to try and show him about a sezwheel without coming across as "I know more than you" I figured he would have known already . . He didn't, I think he took it well. But yea, some folks around here don't like right siders haha. Oh well. Hooking chrome ass steelhead every few casts less than 5 miles from home negates all the EXTRA friendly people! I landed a dandy buck over Christmas, almost 20 lbs!

so thats where you have been hiding. i'm pissed, this last year i paid for tags that i didnt use. didn't even wet a line.