HuskStihl
Chairin'em for the sound
Are you working in NC or across the border? Lookin forward to pics!
Falling pics 11/25/09
- Thread starter Burvol
- Start date
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StihlKiwi
ArboristSite Guru
View attachment 350887Before running out of trees, I got to trying the 'wedge pocket' idea as I'm calling it now. Worked well, thanks. Fortunately, the real skinny ones, that would have bugger all holding wood left if I used this method were all on the ground. In the end, on a few, I persuaded with PTO winch when wind got up too much. All wood being piled and burned so stumps could look ugly, fibre pull was OK, and I had to steer 'em into one of two piles or spend ages winching them into the piles. Oh, and fence lines, save trees, and a track dotted about the place too.
Here's a photo of a few to show the sails on the end of the long masts.
Only burning the lot so don't laugh at the stumps or busted tops. Well, OK, laugh all you want.
Looks like pruned butt on the right tree.. just piled and burnt?
KiwiBro
Mill 'em, nails be damned.
Pretty much. Getting quite demoralised seeing small stands go up in flames. There must be a way of extracting some value.
Couldn't get trucks to it, owner didn't want a digger on the paddock chewing up their pasture.
Am wondering if I should get me a portable sawmill and get at the 30+yo pines when they present themselves and try and find a buyer for it. Could mill where it drops with minimal impact on the paddocks and take out a trailer of lumber each day.
But who would buy green pine lumber like this at pricing that would make it worthwhile? Anyone?
StihlKiwi
ArboristSite Guru
Valid points.
Refresh me again on whereabouts you are.. up north sounds familiar?
If its 6 metre pruned surely there's a local mill with some interest. Export prices are tanking so that's probably out of the question
KiwiBro
Mill 'em, nails be damned.
Northland and above. Got some smaller mill buyers but nobody particularly serious and for the grades often found on small, farm stands and the hassles in getting logs on T&T's sometimes when truck access is next to impossible, and the cost of transport to the buyers, it all ends up being a bit marginal trying to sell saw logs.
But if there was a way I could keep a small portable mill busy and at least earning its keep knocking out lumber rather than burning it, it would be a far more satisfying outcome.
But if there was a way I could keep a small portable mill busy and at least earning its keep knocking out lumber rather than burning it, it would be a far more satisfying outcome.
StihlKiwi
ArboristSite Guru
Well, you're in the home of the Bergstroms and the Mahoe mill, maybe there's a business expansion in your future.
My old man had to knock over a hectare or so of radiata a few years back at the end of an airstrip. He found a guy who milled and treated, still has 6x2 rails and pointed 2.5m strainers sitting around from it.
My old man had to knock over a hectare or so of radiata a few years back at the end of an airstrip. He found a guy who milled and treated, still has 6x2 rails and pointed 2.5m strainers sitting around from it.
KiwiBro
Mill 'em, nails be damned.
Can't afford $60k for a Mahoe or the gear to support it...yet.
Sorry, don't know Bergstroms. Did you mean the Bergman clan behind Mahoe?
It's one thing to own a great mill, but it's an entirely different matter finding buyers for the lumber, unfortunately. I've got quite a bit of standing saw logs dotted around the place waiting for me to drop and mill, but I'm holding off until I have buyers for it. Seems to be the missing bit of the puzzle.
StihlKiwi
ArboristSite Guru
Ha, my bad. Was at uni with a Berstrom, meant Bergman though.
Radiata is hard to sell at small volumes, milled mac, eucalypt etc is probably easier. Just a shame to see high-lift pruned going on the the burn pile, especially at $1,000-$1,200 a hectare to get it there
KiwiBro
Mill 'em, nails be damned.
Yeah, leaves a kinda hollow feeling like I'm wasting a resource. But the more I look around, the more such small farm stands I see where truck access is bad to non-existent, they can't have the ground torn up much if at all, and some of the stands have not been well managed. If I could figure a way to save this wood from the burn pile and not go bust trying, then I'd be all over it.
Regarding Eucs, I have some very good stands but no serious lumber buyers and zero saw log buyers offering enough to justify felling the trees.
Seems an interesting time at the moment in the industry. It feels like it is at a bit of a crossroad. Or maybe it's just me at the crossroad.
StihlKiwi
ArboristSite Guru
There's more than one crossroads for the forestry industry in the coming months/years..
Euc makes decent pulp/paper, as for sawlogs it will only be small scale buyers interested - guys wanting to build heavy-duty cattle yards etc.
The 'wall of wood' we have coming will be seriously limited by the ability to safely extract it, sounds like you're up against that already in the woodlot market.
KiwiBro
Mill 'em, nails be damned.
I'm not pulping out 1.4m DBH Salignas mate
Moxon in Tauranga doesn't seem interested any more. Seems like their export market in USA has gone soft on 'em, or at least was last time I rang.
Extracting the pine safely and in the sorts of numbers needed is also a product of the $ available to do the work. With so much of the cutting rights now owned by overseas funds, I haven't seen much willingness to think too hard about funding the industry to the point it can really go hard out dreaming up heaps of really creative mechanised solutions for steep terrain for example, and investing in the human resource to be sure it stays safe. There's been a few pretty smart things I've seen or read about but not in the quantities needed, I don't think.
But I'm at the other end of that scale, looking for a niche doing the stuff the big boys can't be bothered with. At least until us small players get swamped by compliance costs and admit defeat.
Moxon in Tauranga doesn't seem interested any more. Seems like their export market in USA has gone soft on 'em, or at least was last time I rang.
Extracting the pine safely and in the sorts of numbers needed is also a product of the $ available to do the work. With so much of the cutting rights now owned by overseas funds, I haven't seen much willingness to think too hard about funding the industry to the point it can really go hard out dreaming up heaps of really creative mechanised solutions for steep terrain for example, and investing in the human resource to be sure it stays safe. There's been a few pretty smart things I've seen or read about but not in the quantities needed, I don't think.
But I'm at the other end of that scale, looking for a niche doing the stuff the big boys can't be bothered with. At least until us small players get swamped by compliance costs and admit defeat.
StihlKiwi
ArboristSite Guru
I'm not pulping out 1.4m DBH Salignas mate
Moxon in Tauranga doesn't seem interested any more. Seems like their export market in USA has gone soft on 'em, or at least was last time I rang.
Extracting the pine safely and in the sorts of numbers needed is also a product of the $ available to do the work. With so much of the cutting rights now owned by overseas funds, I haven't seen much willingness to think too hard about funding the industry to the point it can really go hard out dreaming up heaps of really creative mechanised solutions for steep terrain for example, and investing in the human resource to be sure it stays safe. There's been a few pretty smart things I've seen or read about but not in the quantities needed, I don't think.
But I'm at the other end of that scale, looking for a niche doing the stuff the big boys can't be bothered with. At least until us small players get swamped by compliance costs and admit defeat.
There's always gonna be a need for manual fallers no matter what technology is at hand. As qualified and skilled guys get thinner on the ground it can only drive the $ rate up and weed out the cowboys
K I don't get it, they want the timber removed but don't want trucks on their dirt? So it has to be burned, I assume they are paying a pretty penny for it?
Building a small skid road or even a tiny landing, enough to get a truck into, wouldn't tear up all that much ground, and besides it would give their "ranch" a little infastructure to move stuff around. Then a guy could use a tractor with winch or small dozer to move logs to the landing without mangling everything. Unless your talking about really steep ground, then you would have to step up to full on road building and yarders, then have the wood to make a profit.
Building a small skid road or even a tiny landing, enough to get a truck into, wouldn't tear up all that much ground, and besides it would give their "ranch" a little infastructure to move stuff around. Then a guy could use a tractor with winch or small dozer to move logs to the landing without mangling everything. Unless your talking about really steep ground, then you would have to step up to full on road building and yarders, then have the wood to make a profit.
KiwiBro
Mill 'em, nails be damned.
Yep. You'd be surprised how often it happens. Either the woodlot is not valuable enough as saw log or pulp (once harvesting and transport costs are met) to justify the disruption, and costs of building truck access, or the owner might have been let down by others in the past and unwilling to trust any assertion the ground won't get wrecked. If dry enough, they'll accept a wheeled machine over the paddocks to the nearest farm race/track, but they aren't going to get track building machinery in nor spend a cent upgrading their existing tracks.
There might only be 100 trees in a stand, but there may be multiple stands of the same age around the farm. Some of it on ground worth turning back to pasture or where the shading from the trees is adversely impacting other pasture.
But so far I haven't met a farmer who when they take this stance, don't realise they are pretty much consigning the wood to being felled and burned rather than used. I hope to find and prove a better alternative. I can buy a loader, build or buy a small but strong trailer, and wheel logs out, but it then means travelling to the nearest place a truck and trailer can get to and turn around that has enough space to hold at least a t&t of logs, then unloading the trailer, then having the loader or a digger with grapple available to load out the t&t's.
By that stage, there's not much $ left in it. If there was a way to mill where it drops, and a buyer for the lumber, then the loader/digger isn't needed and what I'm hoping to find out is whether the wood that rolls out the farm gate is actually high enough up the value chain compared to logs that it is actually worth doing.
The trouble with Pine here is that there might be a very good use for it on-farm thus not having to even bother with trucking, but it rots easily unless treated, so it's of little value to a farmer. If I could come up with a mobile treating chamber, get the necessary permits and pass the needed unit standards/tests for chemical wood preservation, then there's far more likelihood of selling treated lumber to the farmer or surrounding farmers and avoiding the transport and loader/digger costs. There are also many stands that are only good for posts, which farmers need, but only if treated.
So, I'm trying to work out if it's worth the hassle, and would create a high enough value product - lumber or treated lumber, to save the wood from a burn pile. Jury is still out on that though.
There might only be 100 trees in a stand, but there may be multiple stands of the same age around the farm. Some of it on ground worth turning back to pasture or where the shading from the trees is adversely impacting other pasture.
But so far I haven't met a farmer who when they take this stance, don't realise they are pretty much consigning the wood to being felled and burned rather than used. I hope to find and prove a better alternative. I can buy a loader, build or buy a small but strong trailer, and wheel logs out, but it then means travelling to the nearest place a truck and trailer can get to and turn around that has enough space to hold at least a t&t of logs, then unloading the trailer, then having the loader or a digger with grapple available to load out the t&t's.
By that stage, there's not much $ left in it. If there was a way to mill where it drops, and a buyer for the lumber, then the loader/digger isn't needed and what I'm hoping to find out is whether the wood that rolls out the farm gate is actually high enough up the value chain compared to logs that it is actually worth doing.
The trouble with Pine here is that there might be a very good use for it on-farm thus not having to even bother with trucking, but it rots easily unless treated, so it's of little value to a farmer. If I could come up with a mobile treating chamber, get the necessary permits and pass the needed unit standards/tests for chemical wood preservation, then there's far more likelihood of selling treated lumber to the farmer or surrounding farmers and avoiding the transport and loader/digger costs. There are also many stands that are only good for posts, which farmers need, but only if treated.
So, I'm trying to work out if it's worth the hassle, and would create a high enough value product - lumber or treated lumber, to save the wood from a burn pile. Jury is still out on that though.
For as big as Alaska is, I sure have had to work some tight drops so far.
treeslayer2003
Addicted to ArboristSite
was just thinkin you overdue...........thought ya mighta got married again
No, the first one went mental, the second one's moving back to Seattle, we'll have to see about Number three tomorrow night, or tomorrow evening, or tomorrow dusk, or whatever the heck it is up here.
JakeG
Addicted to ArboristSite
I believe ole Jon once referred to you as, The Spouse Collector. That man is hilarious. Technically you're not collecting them, or are you?
No, I always put 'em back where I found 'em, usually in much better financial shape.
That tree falling was nice work... the rest well... if ya can't get one to stick around maybe you should aim for a slightly different type of target, say maybe pick a slightly better bar to troll for babes, a few dollars more for a beer and whine cooler could save you thousands later in life?
