Falling pics 11/25/09

[madhatte]

There's a huge debate right now in the forestry and fire communities about how to sell ourselves to the public. It's well understood by all that thinning and fuels management are how to mitigate fire hazards, but how to convince the public? They see the expense as a waste, and the special interests don't want to see anything at all cut, no matter what. The counties keep permitting construction in fire-prone locations, and the homeowners expect fire protection. We have done a terrible job regarding public relations during the off-season. Everybody loves us when we put out a fire, but nobody gives a crap when we plan a timber sale, until it goes to the auction block, at which time they are our sworn enemies. What to do?

 

[northmanlogging]

Had an idear awhile ago.

Say bunny hugger group A sues the forest service for 10 million, and wins.

Well I say we pass a law that says anyone suing on behalf of the environment, can not profit from it, so yes the Forest service will have to pay 10 million, but not to the bunny huggers, instead that money will be distributed to another similar group, like national parks or Noah etc.

I suggest this because there are lawyers that specialize in environmental law, because its easy for them to make millions, groups like GreenPeace are pretty much funded by these lawsuits, give a bunch of high minded *** hats a million dollars and they will then have time to think of a way to make another million.

But if you make it so that that money is turned around and spent on the environment they dearly care about so much, then the only incentive they will have to protect the fuzzy wuzzys and the "majestic" timber is for the fuzzy wuzzys and "majestic" timber.

 

[Metals406]

Ha! I'm not fit to carry u'r bar oil! Take it for the **** it is.

I bet ur better at reading an x-ray then he is. [emoji4]

 

[slowp]

There's a huge debate right now in the forestry and fire communities about how to sell ourselves to the public. It's well understood by all that thinning and fuels management are how to mitigate fire hazards, but how to convince the public? They see the expense as a waste, and the special interests don't want to see anything at all cut, no matter what. The counties keep permitting construction in fire-prone locations, and the homeowners expect fire protection. We have done a terrible job regarding public relations during the off-season. Everybody loves us when we put out a fire, but nobody gives a crap when we plan a timber sale, until it goes to the auction block, at which time they are our sworn enemies. What to do?

This should be a thread on its own.

You guys working can start out by encouraging log truck drivers and yourselves to drive courteously in the woods. I think a lot of you already do this. In the bad old days, we delighted in hearing about tourists being run off roads or scared. That didn't help. There was a timber sale with a yarder set up that blocked one lane of a busy touristy road here. The gypo logger answered questions when he could and I even gave him some maps and trinkets to hand out. He seemed to enjoy it and mentioned that we should pay him for his good work.

Elsewhere, I have low expectations. The news reporters are not at all well versed in forestry and most likely are not interested or unable to learn about it. A headline about old growth trees to be clearcut gets more people to reading it than root rot patch to be treated in state parks. I've seen a picture of what is obviously a landing to those of us in the know labeled as a fire line that destroyed acres and acres of habitat. No recent movies about logging have been made that I know of, and loggers are usually portrayed in bit parts as evil men.

Guess you guys need to start or continue a small PR movement and work up from that.

Every once in a while, a commercial comes on about forestry but it is negated by a huge number of teachers in our education system who teach that cutting down a tree is a bad thing. Maybe some of you could visit schools in the cities and suburbs. Develop a program that overcomes the touchy feelie aspects and uses friendly sounding SCIENCE. I'd be glad to help if you did such a thing.

Pictures are everything! I got tired of hearing "specialists" misname equipment and making up rules for equipment use when they had no idea how it operated or even what it looked like. I took pictures out in the woods, printed them up, and made a little display. I also took Logger's World to meetings. It helped a leeeetle bit. Those folks have huge egos and are hard to get through to. Videos and photos are necessary.

In Wisconsin, they had Log A Load For Kids day, where loggers donated the proceeds of a load for some kind of kid's charity. I have forgotten what it was but I'm sure somebody on here knows about it. In NE Warshington, we had a field trip where we took a group of folks out to discuss a controversial timber sale. Luckily for us, Yellowstone had burned that year (our sale was a lodgepole salvage to reduce fuels in bug kill) so folks had seen how it burns. There was a little boy who was the son of one of the main appealers of timber sales. The logger on one spot that we visited put a hard hat on him and put him up on a piece of non running equipment and the kid was in heaven!

It'll be an uphill battle, for sure. Come November, everybody forgets about wildfires until the cycle starts again the next year.

 

[madhatte]

If you want to start the thread, I'll gladly contribute. These are all solid points.

 

[northmanlogging]

Do my best on the local level... and most of the guys I'm in competition with are pretty good dudes too. Its just an uphill battle of negative attention.

Not sure my ugly mug would win over any school marms... Kids think I'm awesome... I don't get it and I hate kidz so its kind of a burden... school marms though...

anyway, I have a pile of friends that would be considered bunny huggers (most of em grew up in Darrington and there parents suffered heavily from the owl, and union breaking there), and many more I've met through the years of being in a rock band... thems is harder nuts to crack... but once you get them to stop spouting the crap they've learned from greenpeas, ecowhatzits, the sierra klub, and the hippie kindergarten teachers and listen they tend to see the truth just smile and nod until i go away...

But the simple argument that the "majestic" forest they are camping in or living in, happens to be 2nd or 3rd growth tends to sober them up.

If we start pushing an image as loggers being equal to Farmers, and really we kind of are, both plant crops and both harvest them, **** ders a lot of loggers on the east coast that log for farmers, farmers that plant trees on marginal farm land so they can still get a crop out of it.

By doing so it would change the way forests are looked at, not so much as nature being denuded but more as a fresh field that has been plowed and is ready to be sown, or the small trees similar to the first starts of corn.

 

[northmanlogging]

granted farmers are still illiterate, and we have much cooler toys to play with...

Tractors are cool and all, but a yarder is bad ***

 

[slowp]

granted farmers are still illiterate, and we have much cooler toys to play with...

Tractors are cool and all, but a yarder is bad ***

Yup, we can start a fight here. I always liked working around yarders, even though the ground was steeper, just because they are more interesting.

 

[northmanlogging]

It would be fun to take The Missus up to the annual threshing bee, they have a vintage tractor pull. I'm pretty sure I could clean up with her.

 

[madhatte]

Yarders ARE cool. Ain't no two ways about it.

 

[rwoods]

A yarder - it wasn't that many years ago to me a yarder was the car you drove in the junk yard to retrieve parts. Always roofless with nair a good body panel or interior piece. A good one would feature a working windshield washer pump and passenger side nozzle. Nonetheless a logging yarder is indeed more interesting.

Ron

 

[northmanlogging]

this goes here

 

[HuskStihl]

this goes here

Nice!

 

[slowp]

I finally got to stop and see a ship being loaded with logs. Usually, I'm going over the scary bridge across the Columbia at Longview and can't gape.
This is at Port Angeles. I was impressed. This would be apres falling.

 

[Trx250r180]

Seen the blue boat a couple days ago when i was in town ,polar discovery i think is name on the side .

 

[bitzer]

I like how you jettisoned the wedges. Makes for an easier escape. She looked pretty soft in the middle.

 

[northmanlogging]

I like how you jettisoned the wedges. Makes for an easier escape. She looked pretty soft in the middle.

not sure if ya can see in the vid, as i was grabbing the wedges the back side popped and moved about 1/2" toward me, so i figured it was already voing and i should srop ****** about and get it down before it chaired


if ya listen close ya might make lut a wee little squeek... which would be me nearly stainin muh shorts

 

[bitzer]

not sure if ya can see in the vid, as i was grabbing the wedges the back side popped and moved about 1/2" toward me, so i figured it was already voing and i should srop ****in about and get it down before it chaired


if ya listen close ya might make lut a wee little squeek... which would be me nearly stainin muh shorts

I watched with the sound off(in the can) but I gathered what was going on. Just giving ya crap. At least you didn't bolt when she started popping. I did that a couple weeks ago. It was rotten in the face and it started popping really early I booked out of there and she chaired about 30 ft up, broke off and came sideways at me. It knocked a bunch of buckthorn bushes down which whipped me like a big fly swatter. I quit messin around after that.

 

[northmanlogging]

ick...

 

[bitzer]

Which part? About me being in the can or getting swatted by buckthorn? Ha ha ha