Falling Technique

[bitzer]

Hope these work. The thing is, a lot of those older pics, I don't even cut like that much anymore. My stumps have gotten taller & my dutch and face work cleaner. I rarely bore or do anything fancy anymore (soft dutch/sizwheel/etc.). I don't even face anything less than 10" on the stump anymore. Pointless. Always evolving. It seems like you need to change it up once in a while to see where your max ouptut is. I think in logging more than anything else, if something is not working its time for something different. And do it now! I know for a fact you can get a #### ton more wood to the landing with a longer bar, taller stump, & minimal boring if any.

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[Tree Feller]

I'm in Wisconsin and I know what type of cutting you are talking about. There is a reason for my stumps. The type I know you are talking about there is not. Fine line here maybe for those not making stumps everyday. Holding wood is left on one side or another to get the top of the tree to swing around. Its not just a matter of bucking it off the stump in a hurry to save the wood. The art of timber falling versus cutting timber. Intentionally leaving or removing wood in one place or another in order to achieve an anticipated result. Not short bar boring/cutting off the stump type crap. Although without seeing the stumps in question I can't really say for sure. Maybe they are legit or maybe mine are just ####! The thing is my stumps are not all like that. Its what you need the tree to do. I guess the point here is intentional or unintentional stump work. It probably sounds pretentious to some, but there is an art to laying out timber and doing it effciently. I'm not saying I'm there by any means, but I'm always working at it.

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PS: Short bars are for weekend firewood hacks!

I agree! There is no doubt in my mind you know what you are doing judgeing by you pics. I think you are correct in saying the type i'm talking about is not the same as what you do. I took some time to look at some of the trees and at the direction they fell the tree and why, and see no real reson to do any fancy cutting. Dont mean to make anyone mad but I'm still thinking they where in a hurry and just cut it down. The fallers seem to be younger so i would say its not that they where stuck in an old technique. Your last pics look very simuliar to what i do most of the time.

 

[rwoods]

... PS: Short bars are for weekend firewood hacks!

bitzer, pleeeease don't lump all us weekend firewood hacks together. I'm one, but I trespass over here for refuge. Some of my kin think you're an idiot for have a long bar and I get tired of explaining that I use long bars because the less time I spend walking behind a partially cut tree the better and despite the added weight it is easier on my back to buck small stuff that is laying on the ground with a long bar. Nice pictures and explanation BTW. Be prepared for possible rebuttals on your no face cut on small stems - I do this on a lot of small stuff (6" to 7") as well but I hadn't had the nerve to admit it on AS. Ron

 

[bitzer]

bitzer, pleeeease don't lump all us weekend firewood hacks together. I'm one, but I trespass over here for refuge. Some of my kin think you're an idiot for have a long bar and I get tired of explaining that I use long bars because the less time I spend walking behind a partially cut tree the better and despite the added weight it is easier on my back to buck small stuff that is laying on the ground with a long bar. Nice pictures and explanation BTW. Be prepared for possible rebuttals on your no face cut on small stems - I do this on a lot of small stuff (6" to 7") as well but I hadn't had the nerve to admit it on AS. Ron

My guess is they are not putting food on the table with the wood they're putting on the ground. Do they have "limbing" saws as well? As for the weight, you grow stronger. That longer bar has saved my ass in bound up wood many times.

 

[RandyMac]

pretty soon you will be cutting waist height stumps with a six cube saw

 

[northmanlogging]

pretty soon you will be cutting waist height stumps with a six cube saw

hmm mine only average knee high do I have to wait and they will grow with time? or should I make sure to whiskey often and die my hair grey?:msp_tongue:

 

[RandyMac]

hmm mine only average knee high do I have to wait and they will grow with time? or should I make sure to whiskey often and die my hair grey?:msp_tongue:

that is the ticket

 

[rwoods]

pretty soon you will be cutting waist height stumps with a six cube saw

Pretty close. Mid-thigh for me - except in the rare case of a real nice stem I am going to cut for lumber where the extra length is needed to make my length - or the no face cut variety I don't want to trip over or impale myself on. Ron

 

[FSburt]

One of the "big bosses" asked my saw boss; "Who do you have that's a good directional faller?"
My saw boss answered; "Andy." I stuck my chest out and swelled up about 2 seconds too soon, cuz then he said; "Yep, where ever it's leanin' that's where it's falling. I've never seen him miss."

I got a laugh out this one. This sounds like alot of our govt fallers who can fall em with the lean like nobodys business. All they need is the good ole "big blue wedge" put in for looks. LOL

 

[MMG]

I don't even face anything less than 10" on the stump anymore. Pointless. Always evolving.

Im no pro feller by any stretch, I come here to learn so I will never offer advice on falling timber. However, I do know that we lost a logger with 30+ years experiance less than a mile from my house last year when he didn't face cut a 10" black oak. It barber chaired several feet up and hit him in the chest, crushed his sternum and was dead in just a few minutes.

Be careful out there guys!

:msp_sad:

 

[Tree Feller]

I don't even face anything less than 10" on the stump anymore. Pointless. Always evolving.

Im no pro feller by any stretch, I come here to learn so I will never offer advice on falling timber. However, I do know that we lost a logger with 30+ years experiance less than a mile from my house last year when he didn't face cut a 10" black oak. It barber chaired several feet up and hit him in the chest, crushed his sternum and was dead in just a few minutes.

Be careful out there guys!

:msp_sad:

I know a guy that farms in the summer and cuts timber in the winter. he nevers notches a tree!
I thought i was learning a good tip until it almost got me in trouble a few times. Now i notch everything over 6"! I'm far from a pro but better to be safe than sorry. this same guy had 30" popular sit straight down on his saw because he did not face it and the wind caught it spun it 90 degrees and it landed across a creek, luckly no one was hurt. This site has taught me alot but you do have to be careful, some of the advice given (not on this thread) should not be followed! thanks for all the input and help from:msp_biggrin: all!

 

[bitzer]

I don't even face anything less than 10" on the stump anymore. Pointless. Always evolving.

Im no pro feller by any stretch, I come here to learn so I will never offer advice on falling timber. However, I do know that we lost a logger with 30+ years experiance less than a mile from my house last year when he didn't face cut a 10" black oak. It barber chaired several feet up and hit him in the chest, crushed his sternum and was dead in just a few minutes.

Be careful out there guys!

:msp_sad:

You're right. I meant to come back and edit that statement a little, but never got around to it. I forget that AS is open for the world to view and there may be consequences for the impresionable. I should have said I often do not face up small dbh timber. There are circumstances that you absolutly should like when you need full directional control or the tree is likely to chair. I cut a small white oak the other day that was shaped like a rainbow. I faced it or it would have split. The bottom line is knowing what you can get away with, but also using common sense and experience to know when a particular technique is safe. Thats often why many of the regulars on here are relectuant to give advice. There are WAY too many variables for a one-size fits all expalination. At the end of the day I want to make it home to the wife and kids in one piece. Time and money are never above safety for me.

Yeah I'm no pro faller either. I like to pretend though! :msp_biggrin:

 

[rwoods]

You're right. I meant to come back and edit that statement a little, but never got around to it. I forget that AS is open for the world to view and there may be consequences for the impresionable. I should have said I often do not face up small dbh timber. There are circumstances that you absolutly should like when you need full directional control or the tree is likely to chair. I cut a small white oak the other day that was shaped like a rainbow. I faced it or it would have split. The bottom line is knowing what you can get away with, but also using common sense and experience to know when a particular technique is safe. Thats often why many of the regulars on here are relectuant to give advice. There are WAY too many variables for a one-size fits all expalination. At the end of the day I want to make it home to the wife and kids in one piece. Time and money are never above safety for me.

Yeah I'm no pro faller either. I like to pretend though! :msp_biggrin:

bitzer, it is hard to be precise and clear and make complete disclosures/disclaimers - sometimes it is impossible. Nevertheless, I too will elaborate a little further on my earlier post regarding 6" to 7" trees: My general decision point on skipping a face cut is whether or not the tree/stub is such that I can safely man-handle it; that factors in a lot of variables, including height, diameter, condition/defects, etc. In my case, it doesn't amount to a very big/heavy tree or stub. Certainly not any that would result in a usable log.

It can't be said enough that every tree is different and each poses different risks. I still remember (thankfully) being knocked to the ground and seeing those little stars as a kid when I was hit in the head by a top that broke off as I was ignorantly trying to chop an axe head width tree down with a single blow - didn't. Ron

 

[MMG]

bitzer, it is hard to be precise and clear and make complete disclosures/disclaimers - sometimes it is impossible. Nevertheless, I too will elaborate a little further on my earlier post regarding 6" to 7" trees: My general decision point on skipping a face cut is whether or not the tree/stub is such that I can safely man-handle it; that factors in a lot of variables, including height, diameter, condition/defects, etc. In my case, it doesn't amount to a very big/heavy tree or stub. Certainly not any that would result in a usable log.

It can't be said enough that every tree is different and each poses different risks. I still remember (thankfully) being knocked to the ground and seeing those little stars as a kid when I was hit in the head by a top that broke off as I was ignorantly trying to chop an axe head width tree down with a single blow - didn't. Ron

Great discussion! I too don't face cut every tree when it is obvious that there is no need. You just scared me a little.


:msp_scared:

:msp_biggrin:

 

[rwoods]

Great discussion! I too don't face cut every tree when it is obvious that there is no need. You just scared me a little.


:msp_scared:

:msp_biggrin:

Didn't mean to scare anyone. Heck, I'm no logger and I hesitate to post here, but I get tried of all the drama in the other forums so I come over here for some peace, to learn, and mostly to enjoy in the background the company of sensible people. On topic, I can't recall skipping a face cut on anything over 6" to 7" diameter that was also much taller than me. On thin stuff, if I can bow it over, I usually whack it off just like brush cutting and direct the falling with my left hand. :msp_smile: Ron

 

[MMG]

Didn't mean to scare anyone. Heck, I'm no logger and I hesitate to post here, but I get tried of all the drama in the other forums so I come over here for some peace, to learn, and mostly to enjoy in the background the company of sensible people. On topic, I can't recall skipping a face cut on anything over 6" to 7" diameter that was also much taller than me. On thin stuff, if I can bow it over, I usually whack it off just like brush cutting and direct the falling with my left hand. :msp_smile: Ron

I am no logger either. To be honest, if a tree is over 16-18" it scares the heck out of me if it isn't an easy cut. Once its on the ground then I am a bada$$ (in my own mind). I do enjoy the dialog on the forum, I always learn something, good or bad.

I do plan on felling some LARGE white oaks this winter for stave lumber when everythinf else slows down for me. I will be going to school on each an every tree as I have some 24"+ trees I will be falling. I have been studying some of the harder caut for a while and have a good plan (I hope). Anyway, here in the Ozarks, white oak is king. If you have good veneer white oak, you better harvest it and get it ot the stave mill when the price is up.

Wish me luck!

:msp_scared:

 

[northmanlogging]

Is it odd that the big ones don't scare me as much and the medium-small ones? The biguns have more diameter which translates to more holding wood and I can fill the back cut with a case of wedges as need be (some day I'll brake down and buy a silvey jack...:msp_wub With the feather weights it can be hard to fit one wedge in there and still have room for the saw let alone if I have to stack wedges. You know your in trouble when the tree is leaning the right way its got one stack of three wedges and only an inch of holding wood and the bastard still won't go over...

 

[FSburt]

Yeah I'm no pro faller either. I like to pretend though!

But you did sleep in a Holiday Inn last night did'nt u. LOL

 

[MMG]

Is it odd that the big ones don't scare me as much and the medium-small ones? The biguns have more diameter which translates to more holding wood and I can fill the back cut with a case of wedges as need be (some day I'll brake down and buy a silvey jack...:msp_wub With the feather weights it can be hard to fit one wedge in there and still have room for the saw let alone if I have to stack wedges. You know your in trouble when the tree is leaning the right way its got one stack of three wedges and only an inch of holding wood and the bastard still won't go over...

Yeah I know what you mean, but I have some leaners (the wrong way) near some power lines. Like I said, I think I have a good plan but it may require some jacking and wedges on a couple of the trees. The biggest problem is even when the tree is strait, there are some huge limbs on the wrong side of a few of the trees. I'm talikng 10" to 12" limbs at their base of the trunk, those are the ones that kinda freak me out being a weekend warrior. I don't climb but I have thought about giving it a try on some of this high value timer.

:msp_tongue:

 

[northmanlogging]

there no (well not much) shame in throwing a bull line in a leaner especially when its leaning the wrong way, 100' of 5/8 or 3/4 "bull line isn't real expensive compared to hitting power lines, just tie something hefty to the end of it and huck it over the tallest branch you can make a quick slip knot so the trunk of the tree is choked and tie it off about 90 degrees from where you want it to go tension it up a little and the tree will go more or less where you want it, just try to get the rope as high as you can to give it more leverage, tying of at 90 degrees works better than any fancy siswheel, dunbar, dutchman, soft dutchman, or my all time favorite "The Kalifornia Swing Cut" (don't try this at home or ever I'm not a trained professional) (its fun to watch stupid people werk too...)