Felling 2 trees

[Greystoke]

One important thing to always remember about a sezwheel is that it will pull more wood down into the stump and sometimes will pull a root up out of the ground, so you have to be careful. Another thing that I have learned is there is no set limit as to how low you cut it...that is, towards the ground...you can go all the way to dirt if you have to, and it is important to follow the grain of your holding wood...if the holding wood curves, your sezwheel cut needs to curve with it, otherwise, if you cut straight down and sever the holding wood across the grain it will not hold as good. Just try to think of your holding wood as you would a steak, cut it with the grain and it is tough, opposite across the grain. I hope this all makes sense, as I don't want to confuse anyone

 

[056kid]

yes I have learned to make sure I have good straight grains to hold good.

Lots of red oaks, and others here flair up at the butt and alot of the outside wood isent much good for holding wood. When I started cutting alot of swing cuts and trying to teach myself where to cut to get maximum movement, a percentage of trees would go off the stump prematurely due to not enough strong wood(inside the tree) to guide the tree until it committed completely.

I can think of several big chestnut oaks I cut that a sezwheel would have really helped keep the tree on the stump longer. but the east coast style of cutting with 20 inch bars and all really dosent focus on fancy techniques and good leads, but flopping the timber down and getting it behind a skidder as quick as possible.

I have noticed having at least 1 inch of kirf in the face, as apposed to having the 2 face cuts meet up to a point helps holding wood flex as opposed to breaking, which I guess would make it a dutchman. I am not too good at getting what I mean into words and have had a harder time with correct terminology since Mr. 2dogs let me have it for trying to explain some techniques.



What would constitute how deep the wheel would need to be?

 

[Greystoke]

yes I have learned to make sure I have good straight grains to hold good.

Lots of red oaks, and others here flair up at the butt and alot of the outside wood isent much good for holding wood. When I started cutting alot of swing cuts and trying to teach myself where to cut to get maximum movement, a percentage of trees would go off the stump prematurely due to not enough strong wood(inside the tree) to guide the tree until it committed completely.

I can think of several big chestnut oaks I cut that a sezwheel would have really helped keep the tree on the stump longer. but the east coast style of cutting with 20 inch bars and all really dosent focus on fancy techniques and good leads, but flopping the timber down and getting it behind a skidder as quick as possible.

I have noticed having at least 1 inch of kirf in the face, as apposed to having the 2 face cuts meet up to a point helps holding wood flex as opposed to breaking, which I guess would make it a dutchman. I am not too good at getting what I mean into words and have had a harder time with correct terminology since Mr. 2dogs let me have it for trying to explain some techniques.

What would constitute how deep the wheel would need to be?

I have a hard time explaining my methods on this computer too, so I will limit my response, but, I USUALLY go about half the diameter of the tree, BUT imho it all depends on the tree, and about a hundred other variables that time and experience can help to determine.

 

[056kid]

I was refering to how deep as in how close to the ground cause you made a reference to how deep to make it when talking about going with the grain. I think you where talking how far across the stump in responce to my question..?

Good stuff none the less. Real time experience taught me everything I know, reading off the net just isent the real thing....


Dont let me bother you with all these ?'s. .

 

[Greystoke]

I was refering to how deep as in how close to the ground cause you made a reference to how deep to make it when talking about going with the grain. I think you where talking how far across the stump in responce to my question..?

Okay...I got you! Again I, myself would determine how close to the ground to make my cuts depending on the tree and the 100 other variables that I talked about earlier.

Don't me bother you with all these ?'s. .

It is no bother, I am happy to share my knowledge...I just wish that I had been in the game longer to have even more to share, like some of the guys that I have learned from...best there are...IMHO!

 

[056kid]

I cant tell you how much I would have loved to grow up in that world.

I still want to get out there and tip the big ones, just havent figured out how to get there yet.

 

[RRSsawshop]

I was refering to how deep as in how close to the ground cause you made a reference to how deep to make it when talking about going with the grain. I think you where talking how far across the stump in responce to my question..?

Good stuff none the less. Real time experience taught me everything I know, reading off the net just isent the real thing....


Dont let me bother you with all these ?'s. .

Okay...I got you! Again I, myself would determine how close to the ground to make my cuts depending on the tree and the 100 other variables that I talked about earlier.



It is no bother, I am happy to share my knowledge...I just wish that I had been in the game longer to have even more to share, like some of the guys that I have learned from...best there are...IMHO!

Well I'm just setting back and letting you guys teach me,but your right it is hard to put everything into words.
But just so you know,you have show me how to do a dutchman and how to get a tree to swing.
When I came on this site awhile back I didn't even know what a humbolt was now I use it most of the time!!! I'm learning by reading and doing.. You guys have taught me ALOT Thankyou!!!!

 

[hammerlogging]

Awesome. Will review later. 6 hrs till wakeup. Awesome.

 

[056kid]

I aint the one with the goods, Mr Tramp and tarzan are the boys to link up with for the good info...

 

[tramp bushler]

Possibly the translation , but , having a dutchman all the way across the stump , will breal the holding wood faster .... Often on a smaller tree I will just make another kerf on my high side holding wood side of the stump , sortof a minii sizwheel . It just lets the holding wood flex a little more ................ I did think the guy in the vid , tho he had a pretty load , and not legal hat , and no spenders ?????????????? .. Had some techniques , but he just flopped that tree out there without letting the sizwheel do its thing pulling the tree around ................Most of the time , I,m not a cut and run faller , but I stay at the stump ,unless I know I gots to run ... Yes ,people may get tired of us saying so , but they need to remember the sizwheel will pull roots and sometimes part of the stump , sometimes with little warning , so you need ,,NEED to be on your way away from the stump before that happens .. It,s a fine ballancing act !!!! When to take your time , and when to cut and run !!! Reminds me of a song !!!!!........ We won,t get into the ( had bigger houses or lead fuller lives ....

 

[RRSsawshop]

I aint the one with the goods, Mr Tramp and tarzan are the boys to link up with for the good info...

Now dont cut yourself short,your asking GOOD questions and learning buy doing same as me!!!!!

 

[lostcoastland]

I USUALLY go about half the diameter of the tree, BUT imho it all depends on the tree, and about a hundred other variables that time and experience can help to determine.

Right..you want to watch the tree and react to it. if you try to make it halfway through without checking your bound to pinch your bar..i usualy try to see it move a little in the right direction...the best solution if your in a squeeze it to use a dang throw rope and go out and attatch a come along...then theres a better chance not to screw up

 

[Greystoke]

Sezwheel Pics

Had to fall this old rotten cottonwood the other day and thought I would cut a sezwheel in it, as I was thinking of this thread. Took these with my phone, so the quality is not the best This Is one method that I use, and sometimes I cut it more like the one that hotsaws101 had in his video, although I usually don't use a saginaw, a lot of the time I will put a snipe as a kicker whichever direction I want...anyhow, this tree was rotten so It did not pull the holding wood all the way down to the bottom of my sezwheel, but you can see kind of how it works.

Using my 088 with 54" bar and 404 full skip square chisel chain:

<a href="http://s627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/?action=view&current=09091030.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/09091030.jpg" border="0" alt="cutting a sezwheel"></a>

In this pic you can see where I started boreing my cut, and as I went down I try to angle it to the right a little to utilize more of that big root that is just to the left of my bar...trying to go with the grain, although this was a little extreme:

<a href="http://s627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/?action=view&current=09091031.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/09091031.jpg" border="0" alt="My 088 stihl"></a>

This is after it was cut out, and usually this is the part where I will cut a snipe on it to get a little more directional control(put it more where I want it):

<a href="http://s627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/?action=view&current=09091036.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/09091036.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

front view:

<a href="http://s627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/?action=view&current=09091035a.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/09091035a.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Now you can see how far down it took the holding wood. If this tree had been sound where the holding wood was it would have taken it all the way to the bottom where my sezwheel cuts match up, but...demonstration purposes only:

<a href="http://s627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/?action=view&current=09091113.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/09091113.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

This was always my basic version of an ugly stump; Notice how the backcut on the far side is slightly(ever so slightly)lower than the undercut, and on the near side it was a few inches higher? Again...I do this to utilize more of the grain of the wood, as to not go cross grain...some may call me crazy, but it works for me and was shown to me by an old mossback faller that had been falling timber for 40 years; and I do have lots of variables when I use it...again, for demonstration purposes only:

<a href="http://s627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/?action=view&current=09091112a.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/09091112a.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

My powersaw...54 barely reached through:

<a href="http://s627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/?action=view&current=09091112.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/09091112.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[Greystoke]

Free firewood!!!! Any takers?

You load, and You haul:monkey: Heck of a deal!

<a href="http://s627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/?action=view&current=09091355a.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/09091355a.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[RRSsawshop]

You load, and You haul:monkey: Heck of a deal!

<a href="http://s627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/?action=view&current=09091355a.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/09091355a.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Great pics Tarzanstree!!! Dont worry I wont try that one just yet or at least on anything that big!! I'm just trying to learn how to swing them around alittle bit to unlock a limb ect.

 

[056kid]

I see!!
very good of you to post up such great pics.
Now I need to go out and give that a go.

That is quite different from Hotsaws101's demo, I took a step or two back after seeing yours, made me think. It gets the point across but its not like being there. With no job to go to and try it I am stuck with my imagination. Guess I am going to have to go and practic on some govt snags,

JUST KIDDING........

 

[Greystoke]

Just be careful! Remember this is all just for reference and you can never replace hands on learning from an "old pro", also just putting your time in on the stump(most large reputable timber companies require at least 5 years of timber falling experience) These methods that have been getting talked about (sezwheels, dutchmans, kickers, scarfs, etc) are all advanced techniques and I never quite fully understood them(I still don't fully understand them, but can make them work more to my advantage now) until I had a few years of steady timber falling experience under my belt, and felt comfortable that I had learned SOME of the main fundamentals and mechanics. I am still learning, and finding out that some of my methods are a little off, and how to tweak them to my advantage. I don't mean to sound condescending, and I am not downplaying anyones experience; I just want to make sure they know where I am coming from.

 

[John Ellison]

Good post Tarzantree, I feel the same way. Its like most everything else, the more I learn falling timber, the more I realize how much more is possible.

Also as you said, a faller has to learn the basics before trying anything else. If you can't accurately judge the lean and you try to swing a tree things will go bad real fast. There are some places and some trees you would not want to experiment on, and only experience will show you that.

 

[Gologit]

Good post Tarzantree, I feel the same way. Its like most everything else, the more I learn falling timber, the more I realize how much more is possible.

Also as you said, a faller has to learn the basics before trying anything else. If you can't accurately judge the lean and you try to swing a tree things will go bad real fast. There are some places and some trees you would not want to experiment on, and only experience will show you that.

Well said.

 

[Meadow Beaver]

You load, and You haul:monkey: Heck of a deal!

<a href="http://s627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/?action=view&current=09091355a.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/09091355a.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Yep I'm on my way, only a 40hr drive one way.