felling a leaner

[rbtree]

Good thread, good advice.

Assuming the tree is quite dead, it may not have much integrity/strength in the hinge holding wood. Thus, your idea of two hold lines at 45 degrees each to the intended lay is good insurance. Any rope will work. I think what you meant is that you didn't want to use your climb lines for this purpose, which is of course wise......prolly wouldn't hurt them, though.

 

[Adkpk]

Set my two climbing ropes today at 45% angles as anchor points. Went to start the saw and remembered I bought the drill to test the core. Not much wood in the trunk. About 3" maybe 4. but that leaves 10-15 of rot. I saw it on the bit.
What I'm thinking is bring the winch down from upstate and rig as I said in the beginning and pull it over without cutting till I get it to come over enough.
Any advise is appreciated. Thanks guys.

 

[2FatGuys]

Do NOT try to force the tree over with a winch without following all of the good advice you have gotten regarding proper hinging and cutting. Pulling it hard enough to force it over without cutting may cause structural failure where you least expect it, which could lead to disastrous results. If you do not feel confident making the proper controlling cuts as outlined by Nails (and others), then call a pro and let them put it on the ground for you. Safety should ALWAYS be your #1 concern. Nobody here will think less of you for admitting your limits and calling in someone that could teach you how to handle future situations....

 

[Adkpk]

Thanks, fatguy. I just got an email from the customer to hold off until the arborist looks at it.

I never cut a hollow tree before. Leaners yes. But I have no experience with hollow trees and with its position I won't cut it without the knowledge of what to do if it does something unpredictable.

I'll keep you posted on the outcome.

 

[2FatGuys]

Thanks, fatguy. I just got an email from the customer to hold off until the arborist looks at it.

I never cut a hollow tree before. Leaners yes. But I have no experience with hollow trees and with its position I won't cut it without the knowledge of what to do if it does something unpredictable.

I'll keep you posted on the outcome.

Stay smart and stay safe...

 

[pdqdl]

... hold off until the arborist looks at it.

...

I'm feeling much more relaxed about that tree already.

 

[capetrees]

Again, maybe I look at the glass half full but if its standing, I can't imagine a tree that big is about to fallover so I don't see the danger in climbing the thing and taking it down piece by piece. You've already been in the tree from your post so why not go again with a bigger saw? All this talk about bore cuts and back cuts and ropes and come alongs is all great but it doesn't seem too tough to me from where I'm sitting. Good luck though!

 

[Adkpk]

I'm feeling much more relaxed about that tree already.

I rep ya for that if I could pdqdl, thanks

Again, maybe I look at the glass half full but if its standing, I can't imagine a tree that big is about to fallover so I don't see the danger in climbing the thing and taking it down piece by piece. You've already been in the tree from your post so why not go again with a bigger saw? All this talk about bore cuts and back cuts and ropes and come alongs is all great but it doesn't seem too tough to me from where I'm sitting. Good luck though!

Your absolutely right. It is stable enough to climb. Money, my inexperience and the arborist giving a cheaper price a year ago to fall it and leave it is why. I can't explain all the stupid details but trust me I'm cool where I'm at with that tree for now.

I got some money for what I did so far so I'm covered. My brother has a friend who wants me to cut a tree down. The deal is for him to buy me a pair of spikes to do the job. I am still at the pruning dead wood and learning the ropes. Not in a rush to takedowns. And don't ever plan to get into the business full time. This job popped up and I gave it a good go but the risk is too high to continue. But if it's still there next week I might. :chainsawguy: :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[pdqdl]

Most accidents are caused by ignorance, equipment failure, or risky behavior. It sounds to me like you are doing your best to avoid all three.

Make sure you watch the tree come down, and give us a report. We will want details about how it went and what you learned, and whether the advice presented here was followed, or some other method was used.

 

[Adkpk]

snooze you loose

I got to the tree first. Looks like worst case scenario. It started to bust out before I finished cutting. It got sloppy but I got it down in the landing zone. I'll get my money cause when the customer saw what shape it was in and I mentioned the risk I took he ponied up. The difference was not much anyway. And I think the arborist was going to leave it. I might too, what's it called a dirty tree. That sucker was real dirty. Hope the customer doesn't think I took a dump in the yard.

 

[Climbing Cutter]

Good work

 

[Nailsbeats]

Hey, hey, got er' down, nice! You knew that center was shot when you bored it right? You can see the dirt on the bark right by your bore cut, there's your sign. Should have put some trucker straps above and below the cut at that point. Speed helps when pulling those rotten dogs over, like a truck, it doesn't have as much time to split six ways to Sunday before it's committed to the lay.

You cut it perfectly, I would have left a little less hinge but nonetheless. Really nice job on the cuts and getting it down, made me proud!

One more thing, I would not have went that deep with the notch. When you need to pull something opposite the lean that far you want a shallower notch. That way you don't have so much of the tree cut off when you start on the backcut. This is one of the times to sway from the 1/3 rule and go less.

 

[Climbing Fool]

Phew it's on the ground. Yay. Kinda like steering around the iceberg instead of taking a course adjustment to avoid the icepack altogether. After years in the game and hundreds of takedowns in very tight spaces I can honestly say I have never needed to resort to the methods used and supported(?) in this post.

My business credo is quite simple, everyone goes home safe and nothing gets broken. In line with those principles for anyone reading this particular thread that there was a much safer option for removal which was touched on briefly but simply not explored. I would have climbed the closest tree, fixed my lifeline through a cambian saver, and then spurred the tree to be removed and reduced it one piece at time. The alternate fixing for the lifeline allows for a safe exit should the worst occur and gives greater stability in the tree than simply using flip lines alone. If you really want to go the whole hog rig a line parallel to the ground from two adjacent trees and prussic down from that line. If you do not wish to "spur" the adjacent living trees then insert your lifeline attached to a stringline from a bigshot. The bottom line is that on this occasion the method of takedown was NOT the safest option.

If your customer is not willing to pay for the safest method of removal then they should not be your customer.

One further point that is ABSOLUTELY critical. Never, ever ever ever ever ever ever ever use your lifeline for ANYTHING but your lifeline.

Last point. Honest. The very last one. Did I understand you correctly Adrpk? You do not own a pair of climbing spurs? For real? Perhaps I lost something in translation because we use different names for the same items on this side of the Pacific. Please tell me I was mistaken........

 

[Adkpk]

Ok went I posted my last post I was a little whacked out from work that day. I learned alot from this takedown. Firstly I want to thank Nails for possibly saving my well being, I owe you. And rb for backing up his advise gave me the confidence to do the job.
I learned a lot from this tree. I've never felled a hollow tree before. I've gone over and over in my mind how it could have been different but I think I nailed it. Ya, truckers straps but who thought. Spike it from another tree, ya but what if it falls and you get stretched into two peices cause you can't get to your knife fast enough to cut your lanyard?
I said I didn't have spikes because I wasn't sure if they were tree spikes. Now you guys can verify, are they? They worked, I need to punch some new holes to get them to fit tighter. I see why loggers boots have big heels now.
I tested the tree by tightening the cable with the come along until it would pull no more then released the tension and pulled on both sides of the tree with my line. The tree wasn't going to fall over with my weight. But what I realized after taking out the top to give it a clear path to fall in was the top was hollow too. :bang: I don't always put my life in the hands of the almighty but then again I can remember a few times :monkey: and now this episode goes on the list.
Being the person who was aware of the danger of this tree to the home owners I thought only to get it down fast at this point. The arborist who they use is like, real slow. So I put the money aside and did it myself.
The cut would have worked perfect as you can see. But when the trunk cracked out, as in the third pic, I found it necessary to run to the john, just kidding, to run to the come along to get the tree to lean away form the house. (Then of course I had to run back to get a pic, dahhh.) Then with the climbing line in the top of the tree I pulled it over. Fell a little to the left of the landing zone because the one branch I left in it turned it a little but all in all it was a job, well done, maybe but it's down and I am a day smarter.
One more thing, I got 100% on the online sample ISA test anybody know if this has any validity or do I need to buy the book to study more to pass the test? Thanks again Nails and rb and the rest of you guys, arboristsite rocks!

 

[Climbing Fool]

Yes, that is what we call "spurs" in Australia.

I understand you believe you removed the tree correctly, my point is simply that it was not done as safely as possible. As a maxim for arborwork, "safety above all other considerations", will allow you to have a long and enjoyable career in what, in Australia at least, is the second most dangerous profession in the country.

My point about price was simply to outline that in MY experience, most accidents are caused by cost cutting measures. If you don't need to cut costs, you are almost always safer.

Keep on swingin.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Plenty to learn there. There was nothing textbook about that tree. Much respect for taking on the challenge and finnishing strong. Study, learn, and retain it for the next one. Experience is priceless.

 

[Climbing Fool]

Just reread this old thread and was gobsmacked by the arrogant reply I made. Man I felt like smacking that idiot in the mouth, then I realised it would have hurt my hand AND my head!

There was a lot of good information in this thread and having reread it, when the tree leans toward the property or a potential target, blocking it down may do as much or more damage as cleaning the stick then scarfing as directed.

Sorry I came across as such a self-righteous ass. Good work. Well done.

 

[randyg]

Why You Back Tracking?

Just reread this old thread and was gobsmacked by the arrogant reply I made. Man I felt like smacking that idiot in the mouth, then I realised it would have hurt my hand AND my head!

There was a lot of good information in this thread and having reread it, when the tree leans toward the property or a potential target, blocking it down may do as much or more damage as cleaning the stick then scarfing as directed.

Sorry I came across as such a self-righteous ass. Good work. Well done.

A little arrogant perhaps, but would not go so far as to say "a lot of good information in this thread" but rather, a lot of "missed" information. I was cutting like crazy back in Aug when this thread started, and first read it today. At least two pics in the first post show obvious signs of rot and bug crumbs, yet no one warned of "hollow tree potential". And all this talk about the bore cut and then cutting the strap low to prevent barberchair?????? If you are cutting a leaner and intending to fell it in the direction of the lean yes, BUT THIS GUY IS FELLING OPPOSITE THE LEAN. And then I see the pic near the end with 3 felling wedges sticking out of three different cuts???? Lookin like arbor-puncture or something, no wonder she blew apart like that. The "good work", "well done" and "thanks" for getting this one safely on the ground should go to God, not advise from A.S. members. Adkpk, I am glad you got it down safely, sorry you did not receive better advise.

OK, you can beat me up now...
randy

 

[John Ellison]

I agree with you randyg. Haven't replyed to this thread because it seems like all of my posts lately have been bore cut bashing.

If it had a heavy head (favorable) lean the bore and release would have been the way to do it IMO. But pulling it against the lean is not the time to use the bore and release. It is a fragile tree, I would want it to go over as smooth and easy as possible. If the back cut would have been started normally, you would know almost immediately if you needed more or less tension on the pull rope. You should not be getting any sudden forward movement as you might if your rope tension is not right and you cut the strap in the back when doing a bore and release.

 

[pdqdl]

It looks to me like it was broken off with too much pull on the rope. You need to cut them off to a hinge before you step on the gas.

What were you pulling with, and how big a rope were you using?