Um what?
Explain how this isn't just a crooked face cut, and more then just sloppy work? Seriously I don't get it.
Felling direction
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Um what?
Explain how this isn't just a crooked face cut, and more then just sloppy work? Seriously I don't get it.
I guess you just haven't cut down enough trees yet. Maybe it is one of those things that the PNW loggers haven't learned to do except by accident.
Some of us actually do it on purpose. It is a particularly valuable cut to know how to do if you are an arborist, working aloft. (horizontal branches are the ultimate head-leaners, by the way) I seldom consider that style of cut useful on the ground. If you are really serious about this question (rather than being snotty about a non-logger posting in your forum), I can try to sketch up the difference in how the tree falls and why you might want to use it.
Until then, consider this: While a feller can deliver a tree to the same ending point on the ground with either an even face cut or a "sloppy" one, the path of the tree getting to the same ending point will be different. Different arcs of a circle, intersecting at two points: starting & ending, but different paths everywhere else.
You guys like to talk about swinging a tree against the lean; this is just another way to get a tree down a bit different from the standard open-face with back cut.
Some of us actually do it on purpose. It is a particularly valuable cut to know how to do if you are an arborist, working aloft. (horizontal branches are the ultimate head-leaners, by the way) I seldom consider that style of cut useful on the ground. If you are really serious about this question (rather than being snotty about a non-logger posting in your forum), I can try to sketch up the difference in how the tree falls and why you might want to use it.
Until then, consider this: While a feller can deliver a tree to the same ending point on the ground with either an even face cut or a "sloppy" one, the path of the tree getting to the same ending point will be different. Different arcs of a circle, intersecting at two points: starting & ending, but different paths everywhere else.
You guys like to talk about swinging a tree against the lean; this is just another way to get a tree down a bit different from the standard open-face with back cut.
RandyMac
Stiff Member
Don't you have batteries to charge or something?
Lol, you're a hoot!
hseII
Addicted to ArboristSite
Thanks for the information. I'm sure that nobody in F&L could have possibly figured this out on their own without your help.
I'll alert the media.
Now, go back to your lawn mowing and shrubbery pruning where you belong.
There is a reason you aren't a mod anymore; I'm pretty sure it had something to do with rude behavior and chasing folks out of what you considered your private domain.
Oh yes! I remember! You banned me, and the management reversed your decision when they reviewed the record (at my request). They also apologized for your actions and it wasn't too long after that you weren't a mod anymore.
It seems that you are still holding a grudge.
Oh yes! I remember! You banned me, and the management reversed your decision when they reviewed the record (at my request). They also apologized for your actions and it wasn't too long after that you weren't a mod anymore.
It seems that you are still holding a grudge.
Just a firewood hack that doesn't know whether or not gunning sticks can be used to accurately predict where a stem will fall with an uneven cut, but why would a professional use a cut that creates a hard to predict swing in a high risk precise falling environment?
Ron
Ron
Really?
You know, I came into this thread very politely, asking questions on a topic I was not familiar with, knowing that I could get a good (or at least well-informed) answer. In typical fashion, you guys quickly revert to insults and snide comments. I am quite capable of handling those problems, but I really don't understand why you guys try to chase everyone out of your forum.
You act like anyone that doesn't claim to have been a logger for at least 25 years is unworthy of any respect, and you usually resort to insulting newcomers livelihood. All that does for your industry and for your individual reputations is to lower our respect for you and drive traffic away from this website. I'm sure the management of this website really wants your participation to help their business out that way.
RandyMac
Stiff Member
You made a few disparaging comments yourself after being given information and you come off as a troll.
Since you claim to be quite capable of handling those problems, why don't you spread the good word to those who follow you.
There are good reasons to use a lot of different cuts. I would like to mention that I never mentioned a high risk, nor precise falling environment.
If you follow this forum, you will find many occasions where a professional logger expounds on the merits of a rather sophisticated felling cut to accomplish some special effect. I don't consider my question to be any different, except that I was inquiring specifically to a rather experienced member about a forestry tool I had never used, and under a specific condition that I thought it might be advantageous to use that tool.
The cut I described isn't that all fired hard to predict where it will go, but it does somewhat defy more traditional methods of sighting the fall line; hence my question. Besides, "hard to predict" and "high risk" is why my customers call me. If it was all simple and safe, you firewood hacks would get all my jobs. When I cut down a tree, it is for money, not fun. About 1/2 of the time, I consider loss of life or serious injury a real risk, and I am always looking for a shortcut to make a job easier, faster, safer, or more profitable.
For some reason unknown to me, it seems that uneven corners in the face cut earns almost universal contempt in this forum. True, most of the times you see an uneven cut it is a mistake by the feller, but that needn't be the rule. Such a cut is no less practical than the various Dutchman cuts that the loggers are fond of praising. Every type of cut in the wrong place is bad, and every "good" cut can turn out very badly if done in the wrong place.
I really am not aware of any disparaging comment that I have made. Please quote me and explain, 'cause I am not seeing it, except for those where I am responding to a perceived affront. With respect to spreading the good word? I have very recently praised your talent elsewhere, and quoted you by name while doing so. http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/some-wtf-pics.128850/page-6736#post-6140428
So far as I am aware, I have no followers whatsoever.
That is what has become known as an "alternative fact". We all know the physics of our cuts, and how they affect the movement of the tree. I'm just a dumb forester and even I know that. Further, I'd suspect that the hesitation to go into details regarding the use of gunning sticks stems from the fact that unless you're cutting big, expensive wood, they just aren't all that useful. Loggerfolk ain't stupid. They're not gonna carry around a thing that they're not gonna use.
pdqdl,
I never thought you were making your cuts for fun which should be clear from my question. Perceptions are hard to read particularly when there is an unseen background. Right or wrong I took your first question as sincere. Another sincere question came from NML which you took otherwise. Can't speak for NML but I think his question was coming from a background of you fix bad cuts instead of trying to figure out where they will send the stem and if it is an intentional cut then you should already have a good idea where the stem is going. Your collective posts have left me wondering about the sincerity of your first question. Or did a prejudicial bias or two just derail everything?
I trespass in this forum frequently. For the most part the loggers here are men of few words. Often I wish I had some gunning stick to figure out what they just said.
If you ever get a valid answer, it would be interesting to know.
Ron
I never thought you were making your cuts for fun which should be clear from my question. Perceptions are hard to read particularly when there is an unseen background. Right or wrong I took your first question as sincere. Another sincere question came from NML which you took otherwise. Can't speak for NML but I think his question was coming from a background of you fix bad cuts instead of trying to figure out where they will send the stem and if it is an intentional cut then you should already have a good idea where the stem is going. Your collective posts have left me wondering about the sincerity of your first question. Or did a prejudicial bias or two just derail everything?
I trespass in this forum frequently. For the most part the loggers here are men of few words. Often I wish I had some gunning stick to figure out what they just said.
If you ever get a valid answer, it would be interesting to know.
Ron
1270d
ArboristSite Guru
Please sketch out what your talking about pdqrstuv.
No grudge at all. You're not worth it. You weren't worth it then and you're definitely not worth it now.
I answered your question about gunning sticks politely and I was willing to leave it at that until you started running your mouth.
You remind me of a bratty little kid that purposely aggravates people until somebody gets tired of it and gives it back to you, thus giving you the attention you seek and seem to need so desperately. You argue and whine and try to excuse your poor behavior by claiming that you were attacked. You bring it on yourself.
Every once in awhile you show up on the F&L section, cast aspersions on the PNW loggers, pick a fight, get your butt handed to you, and then you sulk and pout and display your hurt feelings like a badge of honor. You're too well known here and nobody buys that any more.
Aren't you tired of your behavior yet? I know most of us are.
Thanks for the impartial perspective. Perhaps I made a mistake, but I read more sarcasm into the response from NML than you did. I have read his posts for a long time, seen his posted pics (as I recall), and even looked up what a gyppo is, so that I would understand what his sig was referring to. As far as I am concerned, it is damned unlikely that I would be able to educate him on any aspect of cutting down a tree. Add to that concept the fact that Randy Mac stated early in this conflict that assymetric cuts were useful.
So I took it as sarcasm, and responded a little bit in kind. On top of that, I did provide a non-sarcastic answer by which I hoped to provide a fair and non-sarcastic answer to his question, had he really been interested in it. If I was mistaken then I will apologize to NML with full sincerity. On the other hand, I kinda expect that he meant full well the sarcasm I inferred.
I guess we need to hear from NML.
I never lack sincerity, even when I am being sarcastic, petty, bitter, or whatever attribute of negative-impression you might read into my posts. My biggest problem is that people simply read more into my statements than their literal meaning. Gologit and myself go acrimoniously back a long time. He tries to pick a fight with me, adds insult and invective, and then apparently expects me to dry up in fear of his awesomeness. That just isn't my style. I would like to point out that I don't insult people with name calling or catty remarks. I tell them the bitter truth as I see it, and they naturally resent hearing what they don't like to be told.
Unless someone wishes to continue this silly feud, I will depart this forum and leave you guys to enjoy each others company.
BTW: Gologit, I really don't feel like my butt was handed to me. I challenged the lot of you to quote me insulting anyone, and that doesn't seem to have happened. I will add that I am not aware of any bad behaivior, either. Please! Quote me, show me what you don't like, and I promise to listen. I don't suffer from any butt-hurt, and I would really like to know where that sulking comment comes from. Oh! You have a meaning that I don't know about? Sulking silently just ain't my style. As for pouting? I laugh at that.
I'll see if I can make something practical. Graphics aren't my forte'.
RandyMac
Stiff Member
So, in your words, this guy is lacking in experience.
Actually it was a serious question.
I've heard of folks using these crooked faces as a swing cut, and not here in the interweb, by folks that then fired the guy cutting for em in real life. (there was a fence... it died... didn't need too and was totally avoidable)
I've never used this crooked face thing, unless trying to side shift which is different, at least not intentionally. Simply because there are other ways to swing a tree that leaves the butt square, meaning less work for me and more timber to the mill.
However, I'm always open to new ideas. Good or bad
