Kate Butler
ArboristSite Guru
Some of us run saws in trees on a regular basis - just another aspect of the job.
Female climbers
- Thread starter Mapleman
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tree md
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Call me chicken but I'm not touching this one with a ten foot pole... :hmm3grin2orange:
I did see 3 or 4 hotties on the TCIA cover though!
I did see 3 or 4 hotties on the TCIA cover though!
Mapleman
ArboristSite Operative
I've met more than a few women who can handle chain saws, especially ones who live in the mountains or northern climes--no big news there. And I know there are women climbers who compete in tree jamborees and who can run the rigging from the ground. What I wanted to know is:
Has anybody out there actually seen a woman climber doing real tree work in a real tree on a daily basis? I'm not doubting the existence of such a person--Kathie looks imminently qualified--I'm just interested in first hand accounts.
Great rock climbing photos by the way. There is a story about Lyn when she was climbing in Yosemite with some friends. A guy climbing above broke free from his rope and flew past her group. She remarked:
"That's something you don't see every day."
Has anybody out there actually seen a woman climber doing real tree work in a real tree on a daily basis? I'm not doubting the existence of such a person--Kathie looks imminently qualified--I'm just interested in first hand accounts.
Great rock climbing photos by the way. There is a story about Lyn when she was climbing in Yosemite with some friends. A guy climbing above broke free from his rope and flew past her group. She remarked:
"That's something you don't see every day."
xander9727
The Silverback
Other than competition I've never seen a female tree climber in action......but I have seen some guys who I felt climbed like girls....:jawdrop:
hokiewheeler
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Giggity.
Slvrmple72
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Rftreeman
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I've seen two real working female climbers and they were a bit hard on the eyes if you know what I mean, one of them threatened to beat me up and I got scared.
As a general rule woman as climbers cant rely on brute strength so are generally very good techically and are very methodical in there work. I have seen a few doing great work up until they have to pick up a saw bigger than a 357xp or are having to hump heavy loads.
I did know a female logger from where I was from, she certainly looked and acted more like her male counterparts, I think she felled using a 288xp, certainly wasnt a small saw.
My wife doesnt climb but can handle a 044 quite well.
If you have a crew of guys and want to double production, put a woman in the crew who knows how to work.
With the army we would have a group of 20 guys and they would get tasks done but there would be a lot of bull and ego crashing and general mucking around. But add just one woman to the mix and it changed the group dynamics.
The guys worked harder, safer and were less likely to cause any trouble. We could get more done with 12 guys and one girl than we could with 20 guys. (and yes, we measured it on a few occations, it did go to hell if she was the fliirting type) but providing she kept working, all the guys busted there guts at the same time.
I did know a female logger from where I was from, she certainly looked and acted more like her male counterparts, I think she felled using a 288xp, certainly wasnt a small saw.
My wife doesnt climb but can handle a 044 quite well.
If you have a crew of guys and want to double production, put a woman in the crew who knows how to work.
With the army we would have a group of 20 guys and they would get tasks done but there would be a lot of bull and ego crashing and general mucking around. But add just one woman to the mix and it changed the group dynamics.
The guys worked harder, safer and were less likely to cause any trouble. We could get more done with 12 guys and one girl than we could with 20 guys. (and yes, we measured it on a few occations, it did go to hell if she was the fliirting type) but providing she kept working, all the guys busted there guts at the same time.
treeoperations
ArboristSite Operative
i was trained by a female arborist 2006 tree climbing competition winner
Elena O'Neill, she taught me a lot of things to help me on my way, i started out learning to climb with no upper body strength(cycling does nothing for upper body) and she taught me alot of tricks to help my climbing as i worked on making my upper body stronger and also taught me how to become a very methodical about my work.
when doing demonstations for our class she had no issues with a 066 with 36inch bar up a tree, didnt break a sweat, then after meeting other people in our industry here in nz and they knew we were trained by Elena and the first comment was good luck shes a hard task master and they were right she knew how to push you to your limit.
Elena O'Neill, she taught me a lot of things to help me on my way, i started out learning to climb with no upper body strength(cycling does nothing for upper body) and she taught me alot of tricks to help my climbing as i worked on making my upper body stronger and also taught me how to become a very methodical about my work.
when doing demonstations for our class she had no issues with a 066 with 36inch bar up a tree, didnt break a sweat, then after meeting other people in our industry here in nz and they knew we were trained by Elena and the first comment was good luck shes a hard task master and they were right she knew how to push you to your limit.
I've seen Elena compete; a very able climber.
If women are designed to make light cuts at the ends of branches and other technical work, instead of the whack em and stack em approach, then they are the future of tree care.
I've worked with grown men who cried when they had to take off their spikes and then cried more when they had to let go of the trunk. I've seen men quit instead of conquering their fears and meeting the need to get in shape and learning how to care for trees instead of just cutting them down.
Culls.
If women are designed to make light cuts at the ends of branches and other technical work, instead of the whack em and stack em approach, then they are the future of tree care.
I've worked with grown men who cried when they had to take off their spikes and then cried more when they had to let go of the trunk. I've seen men quit instead of conquering their fears and meeting the need to get in shape and learning how to care for trees instead of just cutting them down.
Culls.
Years ago I went to watch the world climbing competition at Birmingham.
Climbing there was Isabelle Patissier (who came second)...
And Lyn Hill (who came first)...
Lets just say that I paid a lot more attention to the womans climbing than the mens.
Issabelle Patissiar was amazing to watch and moved like quicksilver, no wasted effort and all fluid motion.
I think I fell in lust with her.
The women in general were a lot more fluid than the men anyway, and they used their feet a lot more, the blokes just grabbed onto things and hoiked themselves up by sheer strength.
That blond is a fabulous looking creature indeed.
Bermie
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Oooookaaaaayyy....
I guess I have to chime in here!
I'm female, I climb, I use a chainsaw in trees, I fell trees, I do groundwork.
I'm small, it's just reality, I will never be able to hump around a big ass saw all day, luckily the work I get doesn't require that. My saws range from a silky to a 361 with a 20'... and yes I've used it up in a tree.
My 'strength' if you want to call it that is being able to tiptoe way out to the little tips, and maybe a tad more safety consious than most of the guys I know.
I have not had to use a saw for a week now, all the trees needed was the silky. Mahogany, avocado, poiciana, all of them are wobbly and the wood fibres are very snappy, thank goodness I'm only 116lbs soaking wet!
I got a job the other day, a mess of mexican pepper to cut and clear...know what, I subbed it to a friend who has six big guys on staff, grunt work, I'll just add my consulting fee!
But next week is working through an avocado orchard, chainsaws will be out, in the air and on the ground.
We are the exception rather than the rule, and one has to be sensible and know your limits, I see no point in competing to see how big of a saw I can handle all day, work smart, many trees can be conquered with a small saw, and dynamic rigging and physics can reduce a 600lb chunk to something manageable. And yes, some days the bucket truck is a godsend
I guess I have to chime in here!
I'm female, I climb, I use a chainsaw in trees, I fell trees, I do groundwork.
I'm small, it's just reality, I will never be able to hump around a big ass saw all day, luckily the work I get doesn't require that. My saws range from a silky to a 361 with a 20'... and yes I've used it up in a tree.
My 'strength' if you want to call it that is being able to tiptoe way out to the little tips, and maybe a tad more safety consious than most of the guys I know.
I have not had to use a saw for a week now, all the trees needed was the silky. Mahogany, avocado, poiciana, all of them are wobbly and the wood fibres are very snappy, thank goodness I'm only 116lbs soaking wet!
I got a job the other day, a mess of mexican pepper to cut and clear...know what, I subbed it to a friend who has six big guys on staff, grunt work, I'll just add my consulting fee!
But next week is working through an avocado orchard, chainsaws will be out, in the air and on the ground.
We are the exception rather than the rule, and one has to be sensible and know your limits, I see no point in competing to see how big of a saw I can handle all day, work smart, many trees can be conquered with a small saw, and dynamic rigging and physics can reduce a 600lb chunk to something manageable. And yes, some days the bucket truck is a godsend
Bigus Termitius
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Raymond
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That's Grrrreat!Oooookaaaaayyy....
I guess I have to chime in here!
I'm female, I climb, I use a chainsaw in trees, I fell trees, I do groundwork.
I'm small, it's just reality, I will never be able to hump around a big ass saw all day, luckily the work I get doesn't require that. My saws range from a silky to a 361 with a 20'... and yes I've used it up in a tree.
My 'strength' if you want to call it that is being able to tiptoe way out to the little tips, and maybe a tad more safety consious than most of the guys I know.
I have not had to use a saw for a week now, all the trees needed was the silky. Mahogany, avocado, poiciana, all of them are wobbly and the wood fibres are very snappy, thank goodness I'm only 116lbs soaking wet!
I got a job the other day, a mess of mexican pepper to cut and clear...know what, I subbed it to a friend who has six big guys on staff, grunt work, I'll just add my consulting fee!
But next week is working through an avocado orchard, chainsaws will be out, in the air and on the ground.
We are the exception rather than the rule, and one has to be sensible and know your limits, I see no point in competing to see how big of a saw I can handle all day, work smart, many trees can be conquered with a small saw, and dynamic rigging and physics can reduce a 600lb chunk to something manageable. And yes, some days the bucket truck is a godsend
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Oooookaaaaayyy....
I guess I have to chime in here!
I'm female, I climb, I use a chainsaw in trees, I fell trees, I do groundwork.
I'm small, it's just reality, I will never be able to hump around a big ass saw all day, luckily the work I get doesn't require that. My saws range from a silky to a 361 with a 20'... and yes I've used it up in a tree.
My 'strength' if you want to call it that is being able to tiptoe way out to the little tips, and maybe a tad more safety consious than most of the guys I know.
I have not had to use a saw for a week now, all the trees needed was the silky. Mahogany, avocado, poiciana, all of them are wobbly and the wood fibres are very snappy, thank goodness I'm only 116lbs soaking wet!
I got a job the other day, a mess of mexican pepper to cut and clear...know what, I subbed it to a friend who has six big guys on staff, grunt work, I'll just add my consulting fee!
But next week is working through an avocado orchard, chainsaws will be out, in the air and on the ground.
We are the exception rather than the rule, and one has to be sensible and know your limits, I see no point in competing to see how big of a saw I can handle all day, work smart, many trees can be conquered with a small saw, and dynamic rigging and physics can reduce a 600lb chunk to something manageable. And yes, some days the bucket truck is a godsend
Very nice pics Bermie - nice takedown too!
I know the trees you speak of from when I was in FL, them Poincianna's are brittle as heck fer sure. I tell guys that that the type of work done on tropical trees is way harder than most treework around here - crown reductions and such.
Nice job! Now if you look anything like that blond I'll work for five bucks an hour, I hate winter here! (sorry I couldnt resist that one, lol)
lynn hill and katie brown climb the west face
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmm9RZe3Pmc&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmm9RZe3Pmc&NR=1
demographic
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That blond is a fabulous looking creature indeed.
To be fair though, I reckon it must have been 16 or more years since I saw her climbing and I doubt she looks quite as good now.
Still, she really was amazing to watch climbing (and I don't just mean her looks) as she wasted no energy.
Lyn Hill wasn't quite so fluid in her movements but she was obviously stronger in terms of upper body strength.
Mapleman
ArboristSite Operative
GREAT PICS, BERMIE...
That was the response I was looking for. It gets into the whole realm of kinesiology--the study of mechanics and human anatomy. I've been practicing it for a while now, and it's one of the main reasons why I'm still climbing fluidly and efficiently at 62.
When I worked the Bay Area in the 80s, I watched all these young guys beat their bodies up by muscling their way up trees and manhandling big chunks. I knew most of them would be finished as climbers by the time their knees, elbows, shoulders, and lower backs blew out sometime in their late 30s or 40s. I decided then to be a finesse climber: using my body like a well-lubricated machine; conserving my energy by limiting the amount of moves and cuts I made in a tree; being focused while I climbed (having done a bit of rock climbing really helped). Stretching out before climbing is a really big help. You're not a puss because you do yoga, guys..
I found it was fairly easy to finesse my way through trees when it was strictly pruning. Big takedowns was another matter, especially when working under time constraints while working for someone else. But if you have a good ground crew and learn to use your body like a levering tool--finding the fulcrum points and such--then it can really make the job less strenuous. I never thought that I'd be using all that high school geometry and physics, but I use it every time I climb.
Putting my ego aside is perhaps the hardest thing I had to learn. I saw that power climbing was going to wear me out by my mid 40s.
I love it when someone says I'm an artist or mechanic in a tree.
I totally agree with TM--having a woman on the crew usually increases production. I think it brings everyone up a notch and increases the team work. And I agree with Bermie that woman are generally more lighter on the limbs and able to make those great cuts on the ends of branches that look like they were done by someone in a bucket. Also, what she said about finessing takedowns by using the rigging and taking smaller pieces. In the long run it will increase your production as it will add years to your climbing.
That was the response I was looking for. It gets into the whole realm of kinesiology--the study of mechanics and human anatomy. I've been practicing it for a while now, and it's one of the main reasons why I'm still climbing fluidly and efficiently at 62.
When I worked the Bay Area in the 80s, I watched all these young guys beat their bodies up by muscling their way up trees and manhandling big chunks. I knew most of them would be finished as climbers by the time their knees, elbows, shoulders, and lower backs blew out sometime in their late 30s or 40s. I decided then to be a finesse climber: using my body like a well-lubricated machine; conserving my energy by limiting the amount of moves and cuts I made in a tree; being focused while I climbed (having done a bit of rock climbing really helped). Stretching out before climbing is a really big help. You're not a puss because you do yoga, guys..
I found it was fairly easy to finesse my way through trees when it was strictly pruning. Big takedowns was another matter, especially when working under time constraints while working for someone else. But if you have a good ground crew and learn to use your body like a levering tool--finding the fulcrum points and such--then it can really make the job less strenuous. I never thought that I'd be using all that high school geometry and physics, but I use it every time I climb.
Putting my ego aside is perhaps the hardest thing I had to learn. I saw that power climbing was going to wear me out by my mid 40s.
I love it when someone says I'm an artist or mechanic in a tree.
I totally agree with TM--having a woman on the crew usually increases production. I think it brings everyone up a notch and increases the team work. And I agree with Bermie that woman are generally more lighter on the limbs and able to make those great cuts on the ends of branches that look like they were done by someone in a bucket. Also, what she said about finessing takedowns by using the rigging and taking smaller pieces. In the long run it will increase your production as it will add years to your climbing.
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Kate Butler
ArboristSite Guru
Bermie, OMG, Brazilian pepper (the same as Mexican, I suppose) so bloody dense and heavy when the trees are old - really a pain to hump around once on the ground. Some folks are allergic to the sap, too (for those of you who don't normally work the Tropics). Also, they're massive re-sprouters unless you paint 42% glyphosate on the stump within a couple of minutes of the final base cut (Melaleuca, too)
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