Figuring log weight?

[Old-Feller]

You gotta stop what you're doing right now and get someone to haul your logs for you before you kill someone; no-one hauling loads like that should be asking for 'an educated guess' of the weight. The last 6 years before I retired I hauled 3,500 loads (I kept a log) all 105,000 lbs, down out of the coast mountains from landing to sort, with grades up to 30%; I knew the weight of every load within 500 lbs before I left the landing and drove accordingly. Rate yourself against that and make a decision about what you're doing. I hope it is a wise one.

But until you do I'll avoid Colorado. There's just nothing much else to say except that you help me understand why there are so damn many laws and cops and road-checks. It seems they are sorely needed; if you got home without vehicle and load being impounded there are not enough yet.

Imagine--'5 different loads with 3 different trailers and 2 different trucks'--and you got overheat warnings every time and STILL didn't get it; you make Homer look brilliant. Next time you are around a real logging truck ask if you can climb up and have a look at the dash, note all the gauges. Every professional driver that lives keeps them all in the green--ever wonder why?

Good grief.

I'm not going to argue with you, But I find 30% grade very hard to believe, I was a truck driver for years and a 12% grade is very steep mountain roads, very dangerous for inexperienced drivers. I doubt Iceland hill climbers are going up 30% grades.

 

[softdown]

I've been overloading my trucks for many years. I have found that the reason engines overheat has very little to do with how heavy your load is. Barring mechanical failures and regardless of any cooling problems, the only thing overheating the engine is your foot.

Take your foot off the throttle! If you aren't enough of a truck driver to discover this for yourself without posting a question online, you aren't thinking about it very hard. You are no longer driving your sporty one ton, you have ventured off into the realm of professional drivers, and you need to manage more weight than usual, and it sure seems like you need to manage more weight than your truck was engineered to carry/tow. If you are overheating, then your load is putting more backpressure on the torque converter and crankshaft, causing more heat to flow into your engine block and coolant. Drive slower, don't give it so much gas, and your overheating problems will probably go away. Use low gear going up hills, even if it is an automatic, and don't go further than 1/2 throttle for an extended period.

Now! Many others here have mentioned that you are overloading your brakes. This is probably true, but that isn't the question you wanted an answer to. Just suffice it to say, if your cooling system will be saved by driving slower, so will your brakes and possibly your life.

Kansas City guy critiques Colorado mountains. And falls flat on his face. Again. And again. And again.

 

[softdown]

I'm not going to argue with you, But I find 30% grade very hard to believe, I was a truck driver for years and a 12% grade is very steep mountain roads, very dangerous for inexperienced drivers. I doubt Iceland hill climbers are going up 30% grades.

30% is guaranteed BS. Mountain passes have warnings for 6% grades.

 

[softdown]

My experience is some what similar to this topic. I live at a 6,000 foot elevation where as the nearby town is just slightly above 1,000 feet. The road goes from 1,035 feet to 6,000 feet in 12 miles. Quite often I will have a 40,000 LB load with the heavies around 45,000 lbs and need to get near the top ASAP. I try to leave early morning when temperature is 90 F or less trying to avoid 100 F plus days. I had overheating problem all day everyday until I said no more. I found a larger radiator took it apart rodded it out then found a larger fan to replace the four blade fan with matching shroud. Then to make it more bullet proof added a seven gallon mister in front of the radiator. End of problem can easily pull the hill in a 100 F day with no issues. It is not difficult to add gauges to rear differential and transmission. The mister really lowers temperature in Differential and Trans on hot days. One thing I really hate is my truck sounds like a tornado vacuum cleaner on steroids. If a truck is overheating a problem exist so the OP needs to remedy problem or burn up and be out of business. Thanks

Engine mister would cool things down but not so easily found. So far anyway. Where did you find yours?

 

[softdown]

Wow - seems like an Ingsoc wolf pack descended on this question. Yet many clearly did not read the information before getting their exercise quotient jumping to conclusions and flying off the handle.

All of the loads were very easy until the last section that I called "Murder Hill". Gee, I wonder if the grade and altitude may have played a role?

The radiator is a newish 4 core. The trannie cooler is a Mishimoto. The trannie pan is oversized and finned with a temp gauge.

"Murder Hill"
Have any of my critics climbed a 9500' Colorado pass with a significant load?

The ideas would have all been potentially useful. Except that most somehow ignored "Murder Hill". Almost as if they were directed to "sic 'em". Without reading the provided information.

Now that I have defended myself, the ultimate assault is inevitable. Good Day.

 

[JRM]

You've taken some heat no doubt. I tried responding to the best of my abilities given the info in post 29. Still interested in more details and solutions, if you are.

 

[pdqdl]

Wow - seems like an Ingsoc wolf pack descended on this question. Yet many clearly did not read the information before getting their exercise quotient jumping to conclusions and flying off the handle.

All of the loads were very easy until the last section that I called "Murder Hill". Gee, I wonder if the grade and altitude may have played a role?

The radiator is a newish 4 core. The trannie cooler is a Mishimoto. The trannie pan is oversized and finned with a temp gauge.

"Murder Hill"
Have any of my critics climbed a 9500' Colorado pass with a significant load?

The ideas would have all been potentially useful. Except that most somehow ignored "Murder Hill". Almost as if they were directed to "sic 'em". Without reading the provided information.

Now that I have defended myself, the ultimate assault is inevitable. Good Day.

To answer your question, yes, I have. And higher.

Please tell us about your class A CDL, and how the extensive experience from your career as a commercial driver leads you to scorn the thoughts of those you asked for advice.

I wonder what a professional driver does when his 80,000lb load is overheating the engine on that mountain pass, hmmm?

 

[JRM]

To answer your question, yes, I have. And higher.

Please tell us about your class A CDL, and how the extensive experience from your career as a commercial driver leads you to scorn the thoughts of those you asked for advice.

I wonder what a professional driver does when his 80,000lb load is overheating the engine on that mountain pass, hmmm?

You and others sure seem to be jumping to conclusions without knowing some pertinent missing facts. Doesn't a moderator have all the facts before coming to a conclusion?

 

[pdqdl]

Kansas City guy critiques Colorado mountains. And falls flat on his face. Again. And again. And again.

Flat, eh? I'm not the one with the overheat problem. I didn't even offer any criticism of your Colorado mountains, nor the chump driving in the mountains that couldn't understand why his engine was hot.

I gave you a solution to your problem, and it doesn't cost you a dime. I'll challenge you to refute any part of my original post, rather than just flinging mud in every direction.

 

[pdqdl]

You and others sure seem to be jumping to conclusions without knowing some pertinent missing facts. Doesn't a moderator have all the facts before coming to a conclusion?

No missing facts whatsoever. Any real truck driver would see that, too.

When your engine overheats, take your foot off the throttle. Under all conditions. When you are hauling a greater load than your truck is engineered for, it's pretty obvious that braking will be a concern. When your engine overheats going up murder hill, don't go up it so damn fast. Any musclehead that can overheat two different trucks on the same trip isn't driving smart.

These are simple observations, and they don't take a whole lot of additional information.

As to being a moderator, I didn't make any references to that in my previous answers, and I don't know why you are bringing it up. Since you brought it up, I'll close that conversation now. When you bring "moderator" into a criticism of my posts, then you are criticising moderation. That gets posts deleted, warnings issued, or members banned. Just a word to the wise.

 

[JRM]

No missing facts whatsoever. When your engine overheats, take your foot off the throttle. Under all conditions. When you are hauling a greater load than your truck is engineered for, it's pretty obvious that braking will be a concern. When your engine overheats going up murder hill, don't go up it so damn fast. Any musclehead that can overheat two different trucks on the same trip isn't driving smart.

These are simple observations, and they don't take a whole lot of additional information.

As to being a moderator, I didn't make any references to that in my previous answers, and I don't know why you are bringing it. Since you brought it up, I'll close that conversation now. When you bring "moderator" into a criticism of my posts, then you are criticising moderation. That gets posts deleted, warnings issued, or members banned. Just a word to the wise.

Again you are assuming without knowing facts. Just because he overheated means for fact he is overloaded? I guess you have never seen a car on the side of the road. Overheated. Cuz it never happens.

 

[lwmibc]

30% is guaranteed BS. Mountain passes have warnings for 6% grades.

Logging trucks don't start their loaded trips on highways; they start at landings at the ends of logging roads up in mountains where the trees are. I can understand your scoffing at my claim if your total driving experience is on highways, but I can actually furnish you with a video of the landing as my brother was along for a ride to that cut block; I wouldn't allow him in the cab when I came out of the landing. I was concerned enough to know what I had to contend with that I had put a long 2X4 on the ground before the first load and measured the slope with an inclinometer; it slightly exceeded 30%.

He filmed me coming out from where I picked him up once off the landing; I have the video.

Any of you who want to call BS--I'll take you up on a bet. The landing and the logging road coming out of it is still there, it's on the north side of Red Mountain above the Mission and District Gun Range northwest of Mission, BC. If it measures 30%, you pay; if less, I pay. Any takers? This is indeed a money-where-your-mouth-is opportunity.

 

[pdqdl]

Again you are assuming without knowing facts. Just because he overheated means for fact he is overloaded? I guess you have never seen a car on the side of the road. Overheated. Cuz it never happens.

The cause of ALL overheating is engine horsepower. The solution to be had when the cooling system is overmatched is to reduce the heat generation. This is simple math, well known to real truck drivers that go through the mountains.

As to cars overheated on the side of the road? I've seen lots of them. Had it happen to me quite a few times, too. It's usually caused by a radiator failure of some sort, but the immediate solution is to take your foot off the gas. Sometimes turn the damned thing off.

I recently drove my VW diesel about 50 miles with a dry radiator, having struck a coyote and trashed the radiator. Engine is still fine, with no overheat problems. I did have to drive a lot slower, and do a lot of coasting. ALWAYS reduce your heat input so that the cooling is not exceeded. It's that simple.

 

[lwmibc]

I'm not going to argue with you, But I find 30% grade very hard to believe, I was a truck driver for years and a 12% grade is very steep mountain roads, very dangerous for inexperienced drivers. I doubt Iceland hill climbers are going up 30% grades.

Please see my reply to the OP below. The bet does extend to anyone who wants to take it, I'll pay travel fees on top of the bet if I'm shown to have BS'd anyone.

The only ones who will understand what I said are bona fide Coast Mountain logging truck drivers. Let's see how many on here really are; the real ones will know what I'm talking about.

 

[pdqdl]

Logging trucks don't start their loaded trips on highways; they start at landings at the ends of logging roads up in mountains where the trees are. I can understand your scoffing at my claim if your total driving experience is on highways, but I can actually furnish you with a video of the landing as my brother was along for a ride to that cut block; I wouldn't allow him in the cab when I came out of the landing. I was concerned enough to know what I had to contend with that I had put a long 2X4 on the ground before the first load and measured the slope with an inclinometer; it slightly exceeded 30%.

He filmed me coming out from where I picked him up once off the landing; I have the video.

Any of you who want to call BS--I'll take you up on a bet. The landing and the logging road coming out of it is still there, it's on the north side of Red Mountain above the Mission and District Gun Range northwest of Mission, BC. If it measures 30%, you pay; if less, I pay. Any takers? This is indeed a money-where-your-mouth-is opportunity.

Actually, I'd love to see that video.
I'm not even arguing with you about the grade, I just think it sounds like a scary drive, well worth a visit to YouTube. I think most everybody knows that logging roads are about the worst drive to be found. That and highways in Peru, Bolivia, and the Himalayas.

And... I'll back you up on that measurement. I've got Red mountain here: https://goo.gl/maps/kgyt9KKEVz515LrK8
49.216750092261705, -122.3303343147812

Which road section are you talking about? That switchback on the SE corner looks the steepest on the map. Tell me which road section, and I'll shoot the elevations on it. No, I'm not even doubting you, nor am I about to make any bets.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Engine mister would cool things down but not so easily found. So far anyway. Where did you find yours?

I looked a little through google and did not find any thing directly for trucks. So you will have to fabricate some. I would go through 4 gallons in 45 minutes. I can help. Start with 12V low volume mister then play with the jet. I would get a gas can and mount then plumb near top of radiator. I is not difficult. Thanks

 

[pdqdl]

lwmibc: Would this be the timber road you were referring to?​

That's a lot of switchbacks!

 

[pdqdl]

I looked a little through google and did not find any thing directly for trucks. So you will have to fabricate some. I would go through 4 gallons in 45 minutes. I can help. Start with 12V low volume mister then play with the jet. I would get a gas can and mount then plumb near top of radiator. I is not difficult. Thanks

A radiator mister device will certainly provide extra cooling, but would be a disaster in the long run. Whatever overheat problem exists, it should be corrected first.

With a constant mist on the radiator, you will eventually form mineral scaling between the radiator fins and it will encourage extra road grime sticking to the wet spots, quickly reducing the effectiveness of the radiator. Distilled water would reduce the scaling problem quite a bit, but it would still happen given enough time. There is a reason trucks don't come with evaporative cooling systems. I don't think they even go to that extreme on mining trucks out in the desert.

 

[pdqdl]

Further investigation yields:




Kindly notice the green and red circles. Looks to me like everybody has a claim to being right on the slope of this particular road. Just pick a color and claim your winnings.

By the way, the very steepest paved road I could find in Kansas City came in at 15% slope for only 254 feet. A 30% slope with 20 tons of logs behind your cab would be pretty terrifying. The maximum slope that my 4x4 tractor will go down was 51%, and that was usually skiing down the hill out of most control for stopping.

 

[lwmibc]

Thanks to those of you who checked, give me time and I'll try to size down the file of the video and post it; it even scares the crap out of me to watch it now and realize how many loads I hauled out of there making it look like I knew what I was doing.

As for the switchbacks--that is just standard fare from getting from landing to even a forestry service road, much less to paved highway 'with signs posting grades'. Look at all the logging roads north of Mission up the west side of Stave Lake; I've hauled on every one of them. There was one landing that we had to chain up in summer to get out of to control skidding--I accept that anyone who has never driven a logging truck will not be able to wrap their brain around that one. I didn't have to haul out of that one; another driver did it.

Everyone these days tries to save money, including the tree-farm managers. The day I decided to retire was the day I realized I had become accepting of going around a switchback while watching in the mirrors 5 out of my 10 sets of duals locked up and skidding in 3" unpacked loose rock, with everyone expecting 'that's okay, he can handle it'. Really--5 out of 10 sets of duals locked up and skidding--when am I officially 'out of control'? 4? 6? I asked for a vibrating packer to lock up some of that loose rock. 'No money; they'll expect us to do it for all of them'. Can't blame them, I knew the rates.

But when I came to the realization that I was handling it?--time to retire. Becoming just too familiar with the risk. Anyone who calls BS has never been there--'guaranteed'.

Give me some time and I'll try and get coordinates of those landings. If you can pull grade data out of GE, you'll shake your head at what logging truck drivers do.