Filing after sharpening with the chain grinder

[Beetlejuice]

One of the big advantages of sharpening your own chains, is that you can do it how you want. Whether you file, or grind or whatever.

The angles specified by manufacturers for their chains are based on 'general use'; for millions of users, in hundreds of countries, cutting thousands of different species of wood. If you optimize a chain for the wood you cut, the saw you use, and the type of cutting you do, you might choose other angles. The cutters on different brands of chain (e.g. Husky and STIHL) may also not be identical, even if the same pitch. Very hard to measure without precision machinists' tools, but the profiles could be different.

So the best thing, in my mind, is to experiment! Have fun! Try a couple of identical chains, side-by-side, filed / ground to different angles, and see if you notice a difference. See how the Husky chain cuts at different angles. Try the STIHL chains at the Husky settings. These differences are easiest to compare if you swap chains between cuts on the same logs.

You can also have different chains optimized for hardwoods, softwoods, frozen wood, stumps, and select for the situation like a caddy for a golf pro ('I'd go with the full chisel, STIHL, 27°/55°/10° on the MS460 for that cut . . . ')

Philbert

I've know an older fella that has been cutting wood before he started cutting teeth.. So he says..I was helping unload saws for him an the cutters had very little angle.. He said it says sharper longer. Was cutting fire breaks at the time

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

If you have a rocked out chain that is trashed by hand the chain should be brought back in at least 30 minutes on the saw. If you have 5 rocked out chains not even I would sharpen them all in one day with out a grinder. Some one who is competent should be able to restore a chain in half the time to remove chain and set up grinder. Thanks

Uh no. Some days I sharpen 20-30 loops. Takes maybe 5 min to pull a chain off clean the bar and clutch cover and put back on after sharpening.

 

[pbilly]

I would say the opposite. It might be possible to grind a chain to cut better than hand filing but only 2% of grinder operators have that ability. Most grinder operators confuse their skill to properly operate the machine. I would say more guys cutting timber in the woods for s living are likely filing by hand 90% of the time and most guys chains never even see a grinder. It’s faster, more efficient, and usually yields as good or better results filing chain on the saw than having to remove it, then re-install. It takes 15 minutes tops to file a fullcomp 105 driver chain, maybe 10 to do a skip 105 driver. My thoughts anyways. When I was making money with saws I filed every single tank of gas typically.

how many timber faller do you know? i know lots of them and not a single one files they all grind

 

[Beetlejuice]

how many timber faller do you know? i know lots of them and not a single one files they all grind

Just out of curiosity, how many back-up loops do they pack?. I'm a weekend warrior and I really don't know.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Just out of curiosity, how many back-up loops do they pack?. I'm a weekend warrior and I really don't know.

I don't know about timber fallers but during storm cleanups, I will carry 4 spare and only go through 2 of them in a day unless there are extenuating circumstances. (rocks, sidewalks, steel fence posts, etc.) All this will tell anyone is that if you are careful you can get quite a bit of life out of a chain. Doesn't keep the amigos I work with from buggering up 2 or 3 an hour.

I grind myself unless I am milling. I will argue against filing as being faster and more efficient for how I work. If you have only one chain then filing makes more sense. If you don't have the capital or necessity to buy a grinder than filing makes more sense. For me, I grind 10 or so chains and change them out until I have one or two left and then grind the dull ones to freshen up the stack. I suppose filing a chain could be faster than swapping it out. Only if the chain was never really dull to begin with though. Those frequent touch ups are prudent but they add up over time too. As opposed to letting the chain go for a little longer until there is real cutting performance problems before swapping. Pick your poison. In the end, everything sucks. Learn to live with either method.

 

[pbilly]

I don't know about timber fallers but during storm cleanups, I will carry 4 spare and only go through 2 of them in a day unless there are extenuating circumstances. (rocks, sidewalks, steel fence posts, etc.) All this will tell anyone is that if you are careful you can get quite a bit of life out of a chain. Doesn't keep the amigos I work with from buggering up 2 or 3 an hour.

I grind myself unless I am milling. I will argue against filing as being faster and more efficient for how I work. If you have only one chain then filing makes more sense. If you don't have the capital or necessity to buy a grinder than filing makes more sense. For me, I grind 10 or so chains and change them out until I have one or two left and then grind the dull ones to freshen up the stack. I suppose filing a chain could be faster than swapping it out. Only if the chain was never really dull to begin with though. Those frequent touch ups are prudent but they add up over time too. As opposed to letting the chain go for a little longer until there is real cutting performance problems before swapping. Pick your poison. In the end, everything sucks. Learn to live with either method.

they carry 5 or 6 some more some less and they dont have to change them very often maybe once a day if they are newer. because a new chain that has be ground stays sharper longer than an old one. i take new chain straight to the grinder right off the spool grind it the file two strokes off the riders and if there isnt anything in the wood that isnt supposed to be in ther it will last for two days before a touch up is needed i mean touched up on the grinder. every logger i know grinds their chains every night in the garage after dinner while drinking their beer. it doesnt take that long to to grind chains that havent been ran into the dirt or rocked. i dont ever let anyone except for a few guys that i know will take care of my saw like it was theirs run my saws. most cutters have two saws in the woods in case one breaks down they have a backup and they leave them in the woods at the end of the day so they dont have to pack them in and out

 

[CR888]

I never want to turn a thread into filing vs grinder. I do both and believe anyone who seriously uses saws MUST know how to hand file to a reasonable standard. A file can be easily packed & taken anywhere, a grinder usually spends its life in the one place. I used to finish work and hand file all my chains from the day which would include pole saw chains, top handles, and either 50/60cc saw and either 80/90cc saw. So some days I'd have 6-10+ chains to do each night in my shed after dinner. This would also be after a full days work followed by a clean down of my saws/bars with compressed air and any little tune ups needed to prepare the gear for the next day like topping off fuel and oil, greasing nose sprockets, cleaning air filters, dressing rails etc. You could rush it and do it in 20mins but often 1/2 an hour was needed blasting saw chips soaked in canola out of bar rails, floppy caps & clutch covers into your face, clothes, hair I wore plastic glasses so eyes were on occaision. I became good at hand filing, I had no option, after all an hour or so practice each day doing anything improves your skill & muscle memory. Then one day my father sent me a package with a new grinder in it, I left it in the box for weeks as I had not ground before and could hand file well. But then one weekend I set it up and began the journey of mastering the new machine. I was pretty average initially but I soon realised some distinct advantages the grinder had like a vice with 0-35° scale under it that held your chain dead accurate cutter after cutter. Despite the strength your hands & fingers get filing 5+ days a week, it seemed rather neat to pull a spinning wheel into chain teeth powered by a motor. Now days having around 150 loops of chain in circulation between all the bar sizes and saws I use its so fast for me to do chains now after work. Filing would really relax me, no one was there, it was just me time and I enjoyed it. But now its the same except I grind and spend a fraction of the time per chain. I've never sharpened chains in the field, the work is tough enough, I just swap out chains as I go having a minimum of 3 but as many as 6 chains per tool depending on what's going on. I still by files by the dozen & occaisionally file a chain by hand. My skills and natural instinct has faded quite a bit compared to what it used to be. My hands tire much faster now and I'd kinda dread going back to hand filing every day, my hands hurt thinking about it but I enjoy doing the odd chain now & then. Work chains are just that, they need to perform and be smooth on you and your gear, I've never put a stopwatch to a chain I've sharpened but I've done a few & found what works for me.

 

[cedar rat]

I've been thinking about a 7/32 round ceramic or stone file to created a bleeding edge. It would be overkill, but for a race saw it would be a cool competitor.

I have been looking for info on using and buying a ceramic rod or stone for saw sharpening. If you have any information, please drop into this thread and share.

thanks!

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Uh no. Some days I sharpen 20-30 loops. Takes maybe 5 min to pull a chain off clean the bar and clutch cover and put back on after sharpening.

The implication that you can take a chain off put on another chain adjust it to proper tension and be up and running in under 10 minutes I reject. On top of that you can sharpen said chain in under 5 minutes from set up to finish while going on to the next. If you can do that well even close to what you say then you are extra special. The point is that you have a MO that works well for you and you are happy with the results then no body asked you to change anything just keep doing the tasks the way you always have. Using anything that requires electricity is not an option for me. My MO is likely the fastest and cheapest. On average addressing my 30'' .404 rollomatic takes about 15 minutes with out going father than my vice screwed into the nearest stump. This process works for me. Thanks

 

[HarleyT]

It takes more than 10 minutes to put on a different chain?

 

[Ted Jenkins]

I have been looking for info on using and buying a ceramic rod or stone for saw sharpening. If you have any information, please drop into this thread and share. thanks!

I am sure that if you use a polishing rod you could shave with out the motor running. My experience that if you do a decent job with a file you will be much sharper than the original factory teeth. I have heard of folks using metal grinding compound to polish teeth, but why. Thanks

 

[Philbert]

The implication that you can take a chain off put on another chain adjust it to proper tension and be up and running in under 10 minutes I reject.

Forget 10 minutes. How about 10 seconds?






Philbert

 

[sunfish]

Some of these posts are too long to read.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

CR888 This would also be after a full days work followed by a clean down of my saws/bars with compressed air and any little tune ups needed to prepare the gear for the next day like topping off fuel and oil, greasing nose sprockets, cleaning air filters, dressing rails etc. You could rush it and do it in 20mins but often 1/2 an hour was needed blasting saw chips soaked in canola out of bar rails, floppy caps & clutch covers into your face, clothes, hair I wore plastic glasses so eyes were on occaision.
I

I have spent very little time in Australia so do not know all the trees you would need to deal with. I do not clean a saw until the chain comes off and bar gets turned over. Do the saws and bar needs to be cleaned more than every other week? When I am cutting a chain will last up to two days which is about 12 to 14 hours of use. Thanks

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Forget 10 minutes. How about 10 seconds?




Philbert

As I said I reject the implication. Thanks

 

[Huskitoter]

Suspicions that were confirmed from this tread:
- Grinding takes too long.
- Filing takes too long.

I've been doing it the right way for years with a Dremel and diamond chip bits.

 

[HarleyT]

Suspicions that were confirmed from this tread:
- Grinding takes too long.
- Filing takes too long.

I've been doing it the right way for years with a Dremel and diamond chip bits.

Pics!!!!

 

[Beetlejuice]

Forget 10 minutes. How about 10 seconds?






Philbert

I can take the chain off, blow out clutch cover, sharpen chain. True the bar, replace said chain, put cover on, nut and tension chain. Clap my hands like a black jack dealer and yell time. By the time I get penalized for a sh*tty sharpening job, and the bar cuts in a big "U". The tension nipple missed the bar hole and all the way to the front, getting buggered up. One nut tight, one nut loose,and mine in a bunch. .. In other words, sharpening is kinda a personal thing.. Not bragable. Time means nothing.. I file slow and steady with the intention of doing an above average job every time, so there is always room for improvement. Have always enjoyed the time with the saw. Seems like the more people I meet, the better I like the garage.

 

[holeycow]

What a bunch of rubbish.

I’ve never seen a slasher use a grinder in almost 40 years of oil exploration work in the bush. Many of these sawhands are very highly trained and skilled sawhands that do it all.

I am not sure if they use a grinder when back home to fix badly rocked chains, but they don’t pack one to camp. What a nuisance to use a grinder when a simple file and even a semi-skilled hand can produce a sharp chain.

Might be a regional thing, idk.

I am going to ask the boys about this grinder vs file thing. It has never come up in conversation.

The few times an experienced pro has sharpened my chain it has been with a file and has shown me that my technique is merely adequate. Yet my file produces a better cutting chain than the out of the bag factory ones, normally. No way does a factory chain cut like a chain filed by someone who really knows what they are doing.

 

[Huskitoter]

Pics!!!!