Finally Timed Some Cuts

[dbabcock]

I've had my 3120 KD for at least 4 months now and hadn't made any timed cuts with it, so after ole Ken ragged me about it this week, I decided to give it a whirl.

First, I cut down an 18" diameter pine tree up at my place at the lake. After it fell, it ended up lying on some other downed trees with the butt suspended about 18" above the ground for a distance of about 20'. Perfect! No need to notch carrier logs to support it. I set up my Canon GL-1 DV camcorder on a tripod, the idea being to transfer the video onto my computer and use the frame time to get the times rather than a stopwatch. With NLE software, I can scan the video frame by frame. In one frame the saw isn't in the wood and in the next frame it is. Because I take the frame just before it hits the log to start and the frame just after the slice drops off to stop, the precision of my measurements would be +0/-0.066 seconds, so my times are probably a little faster than I'll show. Air temp was about 80F and humidity, about 60%.

First up was my 1987 266 SE. I put a brand new 3/8" Oregon chain on it's 18" bar. Second saw was my Greffardized 2149 with another brand new 3/8" chain on its 18" bar. Next came my 3120 KD "woods saw" with it's modified muffler, a 24" bar and a Ken Dunn "semi race" chain that Ken sent to me to horse around with.
Finally, I put the pipe on the 3120 with the same chain.

I made between 6 and 10 cuts with all the saws, switching chains between the 266 and 2149 to see if there was any difference (there wasn't). All of my times with a given saw were within 5%, so maybe there's hope for me as I've never done this before.

Here are the best times:

2149 G: 17.33 seconds
266 stock: 11.67 seconds
3120 KD: 6.00 seconds
3120 KD with pipe: 4.37 seconds

To be fair, the smaller the saw the more finicky the cut becomes and I tried to keep the revs up on the 2149, but we are talking about an 18" log here and with only about 1/2" of the bar making it out the other side as well as a 3/8" chain, the little 2149 may have been at the end of it's rope. The 4 CID 266 has a lot more torque and is a lot more forgiving with its powerband. Both had 7 pin sprockets, the 3120 was running an 8.

Where's that little Canuck with the 088 KD?

 

[tundraotto]

Originally posted by dbabcock


Where's that little Canuck with the 088 KD?

Probably hiding... Nice work Doug.

 

[rbtree]

Hmm, that interesting, doug.

Dennis seemed to think that the 2149 was close to the same as the 346. Well, my 346 G w/16 inch bar, will smoke through an 18 inch pine log faster than that, I'm sure, and certainly faster than a 266, as I'm sure it will keep up with a stock 044, in smaller wood for sure, say 14 inch.

your old 266 is still stock, isnt it? Those are mighty fast times for a stock saw turning no more than 5 hp, versus that 13-15 hp 3120.

has the 2149 been run for, say, 20 hours yet? it may need a long breakin period...

 

[Gypo Logger]

Ok, Ok! I've just about had it! Im driving to Manchester with my 088KD and we will see who's saws gonna kick butt!
Babcocks 3120 KD, or my 088KD?
Anyway, I say, I'll hit that 3120 with so many flurries, it'll think it's in Sweden.
Gypo

 

[tundraotto]

lol how much did madsens powertuning help after KD's modifications

 

[rbtree]

ha, ya lil sawed off runt, where ya been hiding?


you havent got a chance against the buttoned down, pressed shirt, snazzy tie,and spiffy shoed big man babcock and his all orange manchine!!!!

Eat your heart out drooling over this 2300 bd foot monster. And since you need some felling lessons, i'm available.

:blob5:

 

[daveb]

Nice job!

 

[dbabcock]

Roger,
I know that my 2149 and your 346 were done at the same time and compared in the same log at the same time up in BC, so I know that the mods done to it make it virtually the same as your saw. It's slower times versus my 266 may be attibutable to a number of factors: torque, 3/8" chain, 18" log, operator, etc. A couple of weeks ago, I had it side by side with a friend's stock 026 and it really creamed it, so I know it's certainly much more potent than stock. I believe that the old addage " there's no substitute for cubic inches" applies here in no small degree. I have a hard time believing that the 266 would be out-cut by a 3 cube saw under most circumstances. If you did a head job and piped the 346/2149 then maybe, but with a "woods job" I suspect that it's just no contest. My 266 is bone stock, but I have always suspected it is a strong running saw.

John and I will make a few more runs with it in a couple of weeks, but if you want to compare them directly, I can always bring it to Clearwater next year where you can "smoke it" with your 346 XPG.

By the way, what's your technique for getting the best time possible with a 16" bar in an 18" log. I'm aware of "over the top" cuts, but common sense says to me that these will ultimately be slower than a straight through pass any time.

 

[rbtree]

Hi doug,

If the actual performance gains are, say 40%, that would put the 346 at close to 5 hp, more than the 266. That is why I was surprised with the times. Several people think their 346's cut with a stock 044, perhaps that is with a longer bar on the 044. And I'm sure it would only apply in small wood, say 16 inch or under.
I remember Dennis's tests. But isnt the 2149 an open port design? I can't see how it could be as fast, if that is the case. The advertised stock hp figures are also rather low, for what those are worth.

It is with small wood that I've compared mine, and have done no real controlled tests. It just cuts fast!!!

Years ago, I briefly had a 266, didn't run it, but had the slightly bigger 268, a real cutter. I sold it when I went to 044's.

When I get the Shindaiwa 488 from Dennis, I'll try to set up all three 3 cube saws the same and do some tests- 3rd is the Craftsman/solo 651SP.

Hey, want a copy of PShop 7? I'm getting one soon, along w/ Premiere. And probably a DV camcorder-video is sure fun.

 

[jokers]

Doug, Roger may have a valid point about the break in time. Maybe initially your 2149 and his 346 were almost even, but consider how much time he probably has on his saw vs the time you may have on yours. Maybe you saw my initial post about my Greffardized 357, it almost went to ebay because it seemed doggish compared to my Walkerized 346, until I decided to run it for a bit anyway and put 5 gallons of gas through it. Now I wouldn`t trade it for anything. Well maybe a KD372(got one) or KD3120(will have one by spring). At any rate, I don`t think Roger was trying to rain on your parade but we would have to ask him that question. I sincerely hope that we can all make it to Clearwater next year, should be interesting. I plan on bringing several saws, including my seemingly lowly Walkerized 346 just to see how it stacks up, and I expect to soon have a KD385 that I`ll bring.Oh yeah, and the Greffardized MS260PRO, just went out to Den yesterday with a special project saw that I am sure he will want to divulge himself. BTW, my W346xp came to me with a 20" bar running 73LG and it has no problem in fullbar hardwood cuts. I think it`s going to be very interesting to compare them all side by side. Also wanted to say, very nice work Doug, thanks for posting your results. Russ

 

[John in MA]

Boy, ol' Gypo must talk up a storm. Never seen an 088 that needed hearing protection.

 

[treeclimber165]

Originally posted by John in MA
Boy, ol' Gypo must talk up a storm. Never seen an 088 that needed hearing protection.

It's worse that that, John. He sings!

 

[John in MA]

"I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK..." :alien:

 

[mryb]

He's right...I ran his 088 before. You do need hearing protection with that saw. Im the last one on the block to wear hearing protection...Rick

 

[dbabcock]

Roger and Russ,
I might have a total of 10 tanks of fuel through the 2149 at this time, so breakin could absolutely be part of it. Just so that there's no confusion here, I really like the saw and the work that Dennis did to it. As I said before, it easily outcut my friends new 026, so it certainly has much more sack than a stock 3 cube saw. For doing general clearing work, I go for the 2149 first.

I appreciate you guys commenting as you have. This is how I learn things. Yes, I hope many more people join us up in Clearwater next year for more fun and games.

Roger, I already have PS 7, but have balked at putting it on my computer, as I'm still trying to get accustomed to the new color management methodologies that PS 6 has over my longtime friend, PS 5.5. Appreciate the offer. Currently run Canopus Rex RT software for video editing, but also run Premiere 6c which is dual stream, real time compatible as well. Premiere is a great place to start and clearly the best software solution out there for single processor computers. I like my Canopus because it has hardware accelerators built into the capture board as well as different firmware in the dedicated video card, so transitions are rendered much faster. It also supports true multiprocessing, which I have in my dual Pentium Dell workstation. Video is all data rate, so make sure your hard drive is up to it. I use a 100 MB external quad, Raid 0 Medea disk drive connected by Ultra Wide SCSI. The f&^ker runs better than 50 MB/sec!

 

[wak110]

Roger,
I do a little trimming, pruning, removal on the side, mostly for family and friends (my real job is far less hazardous), so I have an appreciation for the skill required to drop pieces in confined spaces. That has got to be one of the finest jobs of "threading the needle" that I've ever seen.
Great Job!
Bill