First time saddle user, please help.

[Stihl Alive]

With your level of experience, there's no such thing as a simple and safe job.

And the DTV guy topping trees idea is just ........ wrong ! (no, I have my own business on the side, I admit to the customer's that I am still affiliated with DTV)

Do you have tree insurance ? yes

What are you going to do if you get cut 65 ft up ? I don't know YET

Can you be on the ground from any working height in 30 seconds ? no

Do you have wedges, come alongs, arborist blocks, bull ropes ? yes

How are you getting to the top of these trees? Spiking, footlocking, SRT ? that's what I'm trying to figure out.

Do you know what you don't know? Obviously not. Or you wouldn't be in a tree with a chainsaw and a linesman's belt. I know its a linesman;s belt, but a friend (former tree service) told me the work I would be doing could be done with that belt.


You better listen to Oldirty and stick to the roof and the dish pal.

^^^^^^

 

[Rftreeman]

I don't understand why some people are so hard on people who want to learn or be self taught, I think he knows his limits and is finding out that it's not as easy as it looks or sounds, everyone of us here that knows how to do this did not just wake up one day with this great knowledge, what if we would have stuck with what we were doing, I'd still be bagging grocery's, what would you still be doing?

 

[Stihl Alive]

I don't understand why some people are so hard on people who want to learn or be self taught, I think he knows his limits and is finding out that it's not as easy as it looks or sounds, everyone of us here that knows how to do this did not just wake up one day with this great knowledge, what if we would have stuck with what we were doing, I'd still be bagging grocery's, what would you still be doing?

thanks a lot man. I don't mind the flames and harsh criticism. And I'm taking the serious comments to heart. I enjoy cutting trees, and I'd like to think in a year or two I would have enough experience to merge into tree service full time. I think a lot of the criticism comes from people that are full time loggers/tree service. If they show up to a dangerous job, they better know how to do it safely if they want to support their family. Its not like that for me now. I can turn down every single request if I don't feel safe.



Thanks again for all the advice. many more questions to come.

 

[PStuffel]

Originally Posted by Rftreeman View Post
I don't understand why some people are so hard on people who want to learn or be self taught, I think he knows his limits and is finding out that it's not as easy as it looks or sounds, everyone of us here that knows how to do this did not just wake up one day with this great knowledge, what if we would have stuck with what we were doing, I'd still be bagging grocery's, what would you still be doing?

Self taught, safe and carefull. Everybody has to start somewhere. I found some nice folks to take me out climbing on the weekends. I made sure I was comfortable on the ropes and in the saddle before I ever toted a saw up a tree. Read all the books. Keep asking questions. Go hang out with the folks that know what they are doing.

good luck!!!

 

[Dadatwins]

I don't understand why some people are so hard on people who want to learn or be self taught, I think he knows his limits and is finding out that it's not as easy as it looks or sounds, everyone of us here that knows how to do this did not just wake up one day with this great knowledge, what if we would have stuck with what we were doing, I'd still be bagging grocery's, what would you still be doing?

The problem with folks like this is that yesterday they were sitting in an office and today they are a tree company taking $$ for doing a job that most professionals have paid a lot of money for training, tools, equipment, insurance, licensing ect. He does not know his limits and it only takes one mistake to cost his life. The thought that he thinks he could learn how to do treework from an online forum or books tells me he has no clue how dangerous the work is. Most folks have no problems teaching newbies how to do the job, but they have to learn from the ground up, side by side with someone who knows the industry. It is an insult to the industry for someone to buy some gear and start topping trees as he suggests he will learn by doing.

 

[reachtreeservi]

2 words.

1) Darwinism

2) Attrition



Would you guys supporting Stihl Alive's post do the same if he was on a dentist forum and wanted advice on how to work on peoples teeth ?

At least nobody would get killed and no houses destroyed if he went into dentistry.

It's an apt analogy.

Both are skills that require training.
Both affect peoples quality of life.
Both, when done badly, don't go away.


You asked for advice from the pro's.

And we gave it to you.



It doesn't matter how safe you feel. Accidents aren't caused by feelings.


Remember those two words.

 

[Stihl Alive]

The problem with folks like this is that yesterday they were sitting in an office and today they are a tree company taking $$ for doing a job that most professionals have paid a lot of money for training, tools, equipment, insurance, licensing ect. He does not know his limits and it only takes one mistake to cost his life. The thought that he thinks he could learn how to do treework from an online forum or books tells me he has no clue how dangerous the work is. Most folks have no problems teaching newbies how to do the job, but they have to learn from the ground up, side by side with someone who knows the industry. It is an insult to the industry for someone to buy some gear and start topping trees as he suggests he will learn by doing.

I'm using this forum to interact and get advice from pros. Literature and the opinions of strangers are not my only source of education or experience. There are jobs that are much more hazardous than topping trees. If I was a member here and mentioned trying to start one of those jobs, would you have problem with it? I don't want to simplify or minimize the hard work of anyone on here. But it's not rocket surgery. I've taken down hundreds of trees from the ground (safely) and now I plan to take some down from the top. It is certainly more dangerous but not unachievable. I have set up a job Tuesday, taking down 10 pines. I will be working beside a man that has been climbing trees for 15 years, and on the ground with his father (30 yrs). I'll make sure they have the link to let you know I've died. I'm sure you'll mourn.

 

[woodchux]

There are jobs that are much more hazardous than topping trees.

Care to name a few?

 

[Stihl Alive]

Care to name a few?

ok logging is at the top of most lists. you got me there.

but I'm not a logger. And I know most of your pros have spent a great deal of time and money to become pros. But I don't see why it would hurt your feelings that I'm trying to make extra money doing some simple tree jobs in BF North Carolina. Taking down pine trees does not require a lifetime of logging experience. A basic knowledge of physics and a little common sense seems to work pretty well. Most of my questions involved climbing, because I've never climbed trees with equipment. So I'll learn how to do it and, well, do it.

 

[Mikecutstrees]

I'm using this forum to interact and get advice from pros. Literature and the opinions of strangers are not my only source of education or experience. There are jobs that are much more hazardous than topping trees. If I was a member here and mentioned trying to start one of those jobs, would you have problem with it? I don't want to simplify or minimize the hard work of anyone on here. But it's not rocket surgery. I've taken down hundreds of trees from the ground (safely) and now I plan to take some down from the top. It is certainly more dangerous but not unachievable. I have set up a job Tuesday, taking down 10 pines. I will be working beside a man that has been climbing trees for 15 years, and on the ground with his father (30 yrs). I'll make sure they have the link to let you know I've died. I'm sure you'll mourn.

What is rocket surgery? .......

 

[Stihl Alive]

What is rocket surgery? .......

it's that long sought after career of combining brain surgery and rocket science. (heard it from a drunk guy back in college when I took his keys from him)

me: how do you think you can make it home?
him: it ain't GD rocket surgery man. right one go, left one stop"

 

[Rftreeman]

The problem with folks like this is that yesterday they were sitting in an office and today they are a tree company taking $$ for doing a job that most professionals have paid a lot of money for training, tools, equipment, insurance, licensing ect. He does not know his limits and it only takes one mistake to cost his life. The thought that he thinks he could learn how to do treework from an online forum or books tells me he has no clue how dangerous the work is. Most folks have no problems teaching newbies how to do the job, but they have to learn from the ground up, side by side with someone who knows the industry. It is an insult to the industry for someone to buy some gear and start topping trees as he suggests he will learn by doing.

well, I guess I'm not a part of that great industry of tree care/work because I'm not at all insulted by Stihl Alive's quess to top pine trees and get paid for it.

 

[JS Landscaping]

So you plan on spiking up, with just a linemans belt and a lanyard and blowing tops outa trees for better satilite reception? First of all, spiking should only be used on take downs, learn how to climb on ropes before you climb on spikes. If you gaff out at 60 feet you have a long way to the ground if you dont catch yourself...remember a belt is not a fall arrest device....most climbing saddles unless you have a full body harness are not fall arrest devices. Get yourself a GOOD saddle, something with leg straps, you can find Buckingham saddles with leg straps for a pretty good price, probably right around 125-175. Get yourself a good climbing line, decide on what system you are going to use, the basic is the Double rope technique with a blakes hitch...your gonna need a throwball and throwline to set your line, unless you plan on free climbing to the top to set your climbing line to decend with. Blowing tops isnt easy, it take a lot of practice and confidence, blowing out 30 feet of tree above you when your at 60 feet on nothing but spikes and your flip line requires a lot of skill. If it comes over backwards for some reason, you dont have anywhere to run outa the way...and remember when you drop the top, your gonna go for a ride so be prepared to hold on. Your gonna be cutting right above your landyard, so I hope you have a wirecore to be on the safe side, and your skills with a chainsaw are up there as well. I prefer to be double tied in, my climbing line set with a friction saver, below my flip line as a back up should something go wrong. I much rather be able to swing outa the way should S*it hit the fan then try and dance around the tree on spikes and a lanyard when you only have seconds to move. Topping trees is really a no-no when it comes to arborculture, the tree will look like hell after its done. Learn how to climb spikeless on ropes first, get used to moving around the tree, dont bring a chainsaw up until you feel as comfortable in the tree as you do walking on the ground. It takes time and practice to become a climber and even more time and skill to get to the point of where you are blowing tops outa trees. Get the right gear, all of the right gear, its your life up there, one wrong move and you might get a one way trip to the ground.

 

[Stihl Alive]

http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?category_id=180&item=927

there's what I got a couple of weeks ago. The line'sman belt I just bought because he only wanted $25 for it, it came with a lanyard, a bungee, and som cool bags. Plus at the time I wasn't sure if I could get by with it or not.

 

[Stihl Alive]

The parallels between your and that drunk guy's use of the term 'rocket surgery' are showing !

You're exactly right.

 

[B-Edwards]

These guys are just jealous of Stihl Alive cause they think he will take all the hot chicks that go after tree guys!:jawdrop:

 

[Stihl Alive]

These guys are just jealous of Stihl Alive cause they think he will take all the hot chicks that go after tree guys!:jawdrop:

when I get the chance I'll post a picture of myself and disperse all that nonsense at once.

 

[Jlarnard]

Wow to try to think of all the things I struggled with as I started out.
Even the basics like getting the saw to cut straight. You have gotten so much good advice already. So I will give you a few of my thoughts.

I am old fashioned and climb with knots. I like it because I know it. It is slower than the new stuff, but I get the job done safely. If I am topping a tree and for some reason leaving the rest standing. (Not sure I would even bid that job) I certainly would tie in over climbing down. If you refuse to tie in with a rope. I would simply recomend a double wrap with your lanyard around the trunk. Which is something I tend to do over 40 feet everytime.
As far as saddles go I like a floating D. But would prefer a simple butt sling for straight spiking. Not a belt!!!

Best advice. Look for trade shows. Travel if you got to, heck just make it a vacation. You will learn lots just watching the husky guys on their 50 foot
demo tree. Forget learning physiology and all that, just catch all the demos.
Good luck

 

[avalancher]

After looking at the responses that the OP got from his question, I guess I will avoid asking any more about the same project. I have been working in the woods since I was a little guy, and have found myself in the same situation as the OP. Lots of wood to cut down, but some need to come down in pieces and i would really like to learn how to climb. Mostly so that i know how, but some for some of the jobs that I do from time to time.
Nobody around here wants to teach anyone, I have asked. They all have the same response,"Yep, I teach you how to climb, and then you become my competition."
I have offered to pull brush for free for the day just to learn something by watching. No takers.

 

[masiman]

After looking at the responses that the OP got from his question, I guess I will avoid asking any more about the same project. I have been working in the woods since I was a little guy, and have found myself in the same situation as the OP. Lots of wood to cut down, but some need to come down in pieces and i would really like to learn how to climb. Mostly so that i know how, but some for some of the jobs that I do from time to time.
Nobody around here wants to teach anyone, I have asked. They all have the same response,"Yep, I teach you how to climb, and then you become my competition."
I have offered to pull brush for free for the day just to learn something by watching. No takers.

Some threads to help you along:

Considering climbing
Climbing Schools
Advice Needed
You're going to ream me
New guy interested
Learn to climb
New Guy Equipment rec
Beginner Basic Equip
Looking to Try Climbing
Newbie to Spurs

Basically you will be reading, watching, listening, practicing and taking it slow. It will take time, effort and money on your part to get you there safely.