Rocko
ArboristSite Lurker
Just wondering if anyone has experience with using spray foam to fill cavities,also can you use just regular foam from the hardwarw store or is there a special brand to use & does it hurt the tree in any way?
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- Thread starter Rocko
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darkstar
ArboristSite Guru
welcome ,,, yer kiddin rt ?
Rocko
ArboristSite Lurker
No I'm serious I see a few companies around this area using it
Dadatwins
Addicted to ArboristSite
I have used it a few times to fill cavities. Usually best to leave cavity alone and just let tree do its thing, but I have had a few folks worried about insects nesting or some foul smelling odor coming out of standing water in cavity so I have filled them. Stuff does not offer any stability to tree, purely cosmetic. It does seem to prevent water from building up in the cavity. I used the standard stuff off the shelf at home depot, took out any loose material and water and fill -er up. Wait for it to dry shave off excess with a knife or hacksaw blade, collect the check and move on.
If you are business-
Disclaimer: you must evaluate the tree first and make sure cavity decay has not put the tree in danger of falling, and make sure client is aware that foam offers no support to structure of tree and most likely if the decay is inside the tree it will probably continue behind the foam.
If you are a homeowner-
See above.
Good luck.
If you are business-
Disclaimer: you must evaluate the tree first and make sure cavity decay has not put the tree in danger of falling, and make sure client is aware that foam offers no support to structure of tree and most likely if the decay is inside the tree it will probably continue behind the foam.
If you are a homeowner-
See above.
Good luck.
tnttreeman
ArboristSite Operative
I've done the same, except with one addition. I usually get some brown and gray exterior caulk, mix them up a bit on a piece of cardboard and do my best to simulate bark color. Purely cosmetic. It is by and far better, though, than filling the cavity with concrete(like the old timers and ill-informed did) when it comes time for tree removal.
Jim1NZ
ArboristSite Guru
Very good recomendations guys, i agree
Koa Man
Kahuna giganticus
Make sure you follow the instructions on the can to fill only half way, or you will find out the hard way why it is called expanding foam.
Jim1NZ
ArboristSite Guru
darkstar said:
Yea I'm not a big fan of filling cavity's either, but it stops vandals putting rubbish in the cavity, lighting fires and stuff.
A VTA must be carefully completed and also a bio-mechanical assessment too if required.
treeman82
Addicted to ArboristSite
The one time I did put foam in a tree, I was given a can of spray paint to use to cover up the color of the foam.
lawmart
ArboristSite Operative
we use it all the time, it is not ment for structural strenth at all.
it,s main purpose is to keep out birds, squrirls, water. racoons etc...
if you can clean out rot as much as possible, if you can spray for ants if uou have a licence or get some one to do it for you, and on your cut, fill cavity with foam (home depot, canadian tire etc..) i some times use window screen and staple it to in side of the scare tissue this just adds alittle barrier from the critters,
when it is dry cut the access of and you can spray to mach the colour of the bark.
depending on the hole it can ,earn 100 to 250.00 in your pocket.
i may have missed a couple of steps but i sure some will fill them in for me.
Well my guys are out side waiting for me .gots to go .
Lawmart
Playsafe
it,s main purpose is to keep out birds, squrirls, water. racoons etc...
if you can clean out rot as much as possible, if you can spray for ants if uou have a licence or get some one to do it for you, and on your cut, fill cavity with foam (home depot, canadian tire etc..) i some times use window screen and staple it to in side of the scare tissue this just adds alittle barrier from the critters,
when it is dry cut the access of and you can spray to mach the colour of the bark.
depending on the hole it can ,earn 100 to 250.00 in your pocket.
i may have missed a couple of steps but i sure some will fill them in for me.
Well my guys are out side waiting for me .gots to go .
Lawmart
Playsafe
darkstar
ArboristSite Guru
id say you are just better creating a great seal for some good ole harmful fungi to harbor ... i cant find anywhere in A.C.T. guide that reccomends foam ... ive never heard of a certified arborist reccomending it ...
Kneejerk Bombas
ArboristSite King
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Trees can be quite resilient.
I'd be surprised it foam was very bad for the tree, but I'd be more surprised if it was any good.
My feeling on the ethics of it, if the client knows there is no research that shows any benefits, and it won't likely help the tree at all, then let the fool and his money be parted.
I know squirrels love to dig this stuff out and nest in it. It's cool for the homeowner to spend $200 to insulate the squirrels nest.
I'd be surprised it foam was very bad for the tree, but I'd be more surprised if it was any good.
My feeling on the ethics of it, if the client knows there is no research that shows any benefits, and it won't likely help the tree at all, then let the fool and his money be parted.
I know squirrels love to dig this stuff out and nest in it. It's cool for the homeowner to spend $200 to insulate the squirrels nest.
darkstar
ArboristSite Guru
i was thinking ...if the foam is in the cavity then you really cant see the extent of the decay ... would it not be better to be able to monitor the decay instead of covering it up ? [[[insulated squrills nest ]]]] love it
Kneejerk Bombas
ArboristSite King
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Never thought of liability, but it sure could be possible.
A limb breaks off and kills a child sometime after foam filling, and there is no research to show foam doesn't cause structural defects, or accelerate decay, and you sold it to the customer as a standard tree care operation.
Yep, that could be trouble.
A limb breaks off and kills a child sometime after foam filling, and there is no research to show foam doesn't cause structural defects, or accelerate decay, and you sold it to the customer as a standard tree care operation.
Yep, that could be trouble.
lawmart
ArboristSite Operative
i am quite suprised at the reaction of a pretty common practice here any way. when i with davey 10 years ago. it was done and stilll done,
IT is just a replacement for the days of cement block (it does a number on chain as you all know.
THe home owner is well advised on what the foam is intended to do.
- THis does not add structural strenth
- Foam does not advance decay
- it does one thing realy well , stops animals from living in the tree trunk there by not advanceing decay
- Can slow or stop the advancement of decay, (if you belive in C.O.D.i.T)
if a tree where to fail it would have failed with or with out foam
since this is not its intended purpose.
If no insectects and Criters can not get into the cavity to perice the cell walls in compartmentlization. in theroy then the cavity should not get any bigger.
I just loaded a 10,000 pound white oak log that was filled with cement made blocks, if the rings are right or my counting, this took place about 70 years ago. And it took approx. 20-30 years for the callus tissue to grow around the cement . THe tree is approx 180 years old we found lead shot in the trunk at approx. 120- 130 years
From my observation the rotten parts where cut away (you can see the axe marks on the inside of the cement block.
THere was NO sign of futher decay once the cavtity was cleaned and filled.
the cemment was grown over by solid wood for approx 22' up the tree , i had to rent a jack hammer to bust awy the cemment on my back cut. this is not the first time i have come accross this .
If done right this does work in stopping the advancnent of decay in trees.
Yes, I have seen where the cement is loose and deacy has advanced. the key is to clean the cavity really well aliminate all sites of possible decay.
This pratice is also done by quite a few municapllites in the area.
THis is 15 years in the bussness and it has alwas been praticed aswell tought in school.
Try it and try to understand what the real purpose of this is for is for.
this is done after all tree purning has beenand not sold as stand alone job.
Lawmart
Playsafe
IT is just a replacement for the days of cement block (it does a number on chain as you all know.
THe home owner is well advised on what the foam is intended to do.
- THis does not add structural strenth
- Foam does not advance decay
- it does one thing realy well , stops animals from living in the tree trunk there by not advanceing decay
- Can slow or stop the advancement of decay, (if you belive in C.O.D.i.T)
if a tree where to fail it would have failed with or with out foam
since this is not its intended purpose.
If no insectects and Criters can not get into the cavity to perice the cell walls in compartmentlization. in theroy then the cavity should not get any bigger.
I just loaded a 10,000 pound white oak log that was filled with cement made blocks, if the rings are right or my counting, this took place about 70 years ago. And it took approx. 20-30 years for the callus tissue to grow around the cement . THe tree is approx 180 years old we found lead shot in the trunk at approx. 120- 130 years
From my observation the rotten parts where cut away (you can see the axe marks on the inside of the cement block.
THere was NO sign of futher decay once the cavtity was cleaned and filled.
the cemment was grown over by solid wood for approx 22' up the tree , i had to rent a jack hammer to bust awy the cemment on my back cut. this is not the first time i have come accross this .
If done right this does work in stopping the advancnent of decay in trees.
Yes, I have seen where the cement is loose and deacy has advanced. the key is to clean the cavity really well aliminate all sites of possible decay.
This pratice is also done by quite a few municapllites in the area.
THis is 15 years in the bussness and it has alwas been praticed aswell tought in school.
Try it and try to understand what the real purpose of this is for is for.
this is done after all tree purning has beenand not sold as stand alone job.
Lawmart
Playsafe
Rocko
ArboristSite Lurker
Thank you all for the information
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
I've seen the foam torn apart by critters too.
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
I've done a number of these 'fills' over the years, try to avoid them, though I don't think it will accelerate decay. If anything it will help if it just keeps water out of the cavity. I would always spray for bugs before shooting the expanding foam (which is the reason I try to avoid this service- I don't do chemicals well)
The last time I did one, the dispenser tube was defective. I kept bending the nozzle, working it over different ways and when that sucker snapped, the entire contents of the can came out in 0.2 seconds. I mean, the entire can. It was not pretty. The can was not facing into the cavity. Valuable tip..... don't get this stuff in your hair.
I've only done a couple dissections through a foam-filled cavity and both times there was no evidence of insects within, and CODIT walls were intact and well. Two times is not a big pool of experience to draw from, but even though I didn't get the pics, I did crosscut those zones (both of them) at 2" (5 cm) intervals like a tree pathologist might do, looking, and learning. I saw only positive results when looking at this stuff from the inside. I have no idea how long the foam had been there.
The surface is prone to decomposition by ultraviolet. I think painting would help this, as well as make it a better-looking job.
p.s. Welcome to the site, Rocko!
The last time I did one, the dispenser tube was defective. I kept bending the nozzle, working it over different ways and when that sucker snapped, the entire contents of the can came out in 0.2 seconds. I mean, the entire can. It was not pretty. The can was not facing into the cavity. Valuable tip..... don't get this stuff in your hair.
I've only done a couple dissections through a foam-filled cavity and both times there was no evidence of insects within, and CODIT walls were intact and well. Two times is not a big pool of experience to draw from, but even though I didn't get the pics, I did crosscut those zones (both of them) at 2" (5 cm) intervals like a tree pathologist might do, looking, and learning. I saw only positive results when looking at this stuff from the inside. I have no idea how long the foam had been there.
The surface is prone to decomposition by ultraviolet. I think painting would help this, as well as make it a better-looking job.
p.s. Welcome to the site, Rocko!
Last edited:
longlivethetree
New Member
cavity fix
I do alot of this work and all i can say is it depends on the cavity to which method works best. Overall i stick to the foam as a filler but not a sealer. the cavity must be clean and smoothed out. I use an air die and some bits i have had made just for this along with some hand tools but you can us routing bits and chisel's to achieve the same task. I also use a small air gun to blow out the debry and any water. Then let it dry out for a day or so. Then depending on the depth or shape, size ex, ill use foam to fill it if its deep or if not skip to the next step use fiberglass cloth and fiber glass. First lay the cloth out and trim it in some times i use small staple to hold it in place than spread your resin allow to tack than re apply more resin to size not to interferer with healing edges. Then i use a small sander to smooth it out. i have made mixes with colorant to match the tree or paint over after both works well. It really depends on the wound some times it better to flush the cavity, you can learn alot about that if you read about bonsai trees they have been doing this stuff for thousands of years. theres alot more to it but a cant give all my secrets away its a learn as you go thing but this should be enuff to get you started. hears a link with some good info on decay http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/misc/treedecay/cover.htm
I do alot of this work and all i can say is it depends on the cavity to which method works best. Overall i stick to the foam as a filler but not a sealer. the cavity must be clean and smoothed out. I use an air die and some bits i have had made just for this along with some hand tools but you can us routing bits and chisel's to achieve the same task. I also use a small air gun to blow out the debry and any water. Then let it dry out for a day or so. Then depending on the depth or shape, size ex, ill use foam to fill it if its deep or if not skip to the next step use fiberglass cloth and fiber glass. First lay the cloth out and trim it in some times i use small staple to hold it in place than spread your resin allow to tack than re apply more resin to size not to interferer with healing edges. Then i use a small sander to smooth it out. i have made mixes with colorant to match the tree or paint over after both works well. It really depends on the wound some times it better to flush the cavity, you can learn alot about that if you read about bonsai trees they have been doing this stuff for thousands of years. theres alot more to it but a cant give all my secrets away its a learn as you go thing but this should be enuff to get you started. hears a link with some good info on decay http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/misc/treedecay/cover.htm
treemandan
Tree Freak
One hole which can effectively be plugged with expanda- foam and has great results is THOSE DAM TURBO MUFFLERS!
