Fool Proof Saw Comparison

[Crofter]

What does it take to make a comparison of two different saws or components, that eliminates simple personal preferance or induced error? We have all seen posts where the person was obviously either in love with, or hated, one or the other saw or builder (if modifications considered) or there was some obvious condition that flawed a decent comparison.

Some things like horse racing break down into different categories so they dont put a clydesdale up against a thoroghbred or a 200 lb jockey against a hundred pounder or a quarter mile racer against a hundred mile endurance one!

What kind of preconditions really should the chainsaw cutting tests impose to make an unbiased appraisal more likely?

 

[Big Neb]

I talked with a shop in the Pacific Northwest that sold both Stihl and Husqvarna and asked which ones they had the best luck with. He said it really didn't matter especially in the big saws. Any saw designed for the professional crowd would probably do the job it was intended for. One saw may have better vibration control but the other had more power, less weight, better efficiency etc...

He recommended I find a good repair shop locally and then go with whatever make of saw they sold.

As such, I have no problem with any of the saws whether Stihl, Husqvarna, Dolmar, Jonsered etc... In fact, I would love to try any or all of them. I once upon a time used a bad starting Husky and it left a sour taste in my mouth so when it was time for me to buy a saw I started with my 026. Then I got the 361 because it will take the same bar. Now I'm looking at a 441 which also takes the same bar.

Buy what you can have serviced, buy what you can get parts for, buy for the heck of it. Just use them and be happy....

 

[clearance]

The saws would have to have exactly the same c.c., else people would complian.

 

[Big Neb]

I agree the most reasonably comparison would be by cc and equivalent bar length and chain pitch. The rest is merely fit and finish.

Of course the manufacturers would probably try to squeeze just an extra cc to one up the other.

 

[spacemule]

What does it take to make a comparison of two different saws or components, that eliminates simple personal preferance

If we eliminate personal preference, aren't most modern saws pretty much on the same level? I'm not saying we should compare saws by whipping a ruler out and measuring the smile on a guy's face, but you've got to admit that's a very important factor.

 

[Crofter]

The size and intended purpose would be important for sure. I am thinking of what would be the setup to decide which cuts faster a 372 or a 044 or is Joes modded 346 faster than Sams. What kind of things can screw up getting a fair appraisal. Some saws have a restricted air cleaner and it is common to take the filter off to compare its cut times. That would be useless info for a woods saw. That is just one aspect that came to mind in comparing the 026 to a 346 for example so you would have to stipulate filters and choke plates be in place for a working saw comparison. If the intended purpose is racing then that changes the conditions. What is the other things that can deliberately or incidentally influence a fair comparison.

 

[Crofter]

Spacemule, there is no denying the aspect of personal preference and no easy way of measuring it. Its like sex appeal, mostly in the eye of the beholder. Some things though can be more exactly compared if conditions are closely controlled. A saw can be precisely weighed for instance (stating of course what all equipment is installed and empty or fueled to go) Cut times are much harder to measure as there are probably 10 or more different things that can affect that alone. That is where it gets trickier!

 

[Lakeside53]

but... Isn't it just Ford verses Chevy at any one model/price point? The dealer and service is what makes the difference.

oh, I can hear the crying already...

 

[rahtreelimbs]

but... Isn't it just Ford verses Chevy at any one model/price point? The dealer and service is what makes the difference.

oh, I can hear the crying already...

Just about the perfect answer!!!

Look at Dolmar...............look at 5100 & 7900 great saws. But as we all know Dolmar sorely lacks in distribution, parts and just having dealers. No matter how bad ass their saws are some guys just ain't buying Dolmars for the aforementioned reasons!!!

 

[Al Smith]

To tell you the truth Frank,I don't think you could ever get much more than personal opinions,including my own.

It is pretty plain that those who are dealers will plug their product.

The way I see it is that most pro grade modern saws are pretty close as far as performance within their praticular size range.I think it boils down to perhaps end user satisfaction which could be related to after sales support by the dealer.

 

[Tzed250]

Its all in who knows who, then over here ya' got favoritism...

 

[SawTroll]

What does it take to make a comparison of two different saws or components, that eliminates simple personal preferance or induced error? We have all seen posts where the person was obviously either in love with, or hated, one or the other saw or builder (if modifications considered) or there was some obvious condition that flawed a decent comparison.

Some things like horse racing break down into different categories so they dont put a clydesdale up against a thoroghbred or a 200 lb jockey against a hundred pounder or a quarter mile racer against a hundred mile endurance one!

What kind of preconditions really should the chainsaw cutting tests impose to make an unbiased appraisal more likely?

First of all, the cutting have to be in several sizes and types of wood, and the cutting attachment have to be optimized for every saw and wood.....

If not you may hit the "sweetspot" with one combination, and be quite a bit off that spot with another.

 

[SmokinDodge]

What does it take to make a comparison of two different saws or components, that eliminates simple personal preferance or induced error?
What kind of preconditions really should the chainsaw cutting tests impose to make an unbiased appraisal more likely?

A chain, wood and operator introduce an unreal amount of inconsistencies.

I think the only way you could do without personal preference/experience playing a part is with a calabrated dyno. (unlike the manf. dyno) Might be handy to figure a horsepower/weight ratio. I figure a horsepower/weight ratio is probably the biggest consideration on a saw. I know for me it is.


And in order to have similar results east to west coast, fuel ratio along with the fuel's octane rating, air temp and altitude would have to be recorded. The saws would be set to the manufacture's recommended rpm with a tach. Idealy the saws would have ten tanks of fuel ran through them for proper break in.

 

[A100HVA]

To tell you the truth Frank,I don't think you could ever get much more than personal opinions,including my own.

It is pretty plain that those who are dealers will plug their product.

The way I see it is that most pro grade modern saws are pretty close as far as performance within their praticular size range.I think it boils down to perhaps end user satisfaction which could be related to after sales support by the dealer.

lotta truth here,good answer al !

 

[joatmon]

Nice try, but

Trying to enlighten a saw purchase or modification with a dose of common sense or objectivity is just plain :censored:.

Smelling and hearing a 2 stroke, or watching one of those saw racing videos causes my brain (and I suspect most others here) to completely bypass the CSZ of my brain.

CSZ = common sense zone

 

[Crofter]

So there is going to be some hype and spin to sort thru! As many have pointed out a lot of personal preferences are going to weigh in a decision and the final clincher might be the vibes you get from the servicing dealer. As Smokindodge, Sawtroll and others have mentioned, if you want to judge cutting speed you have to be very careful to even the playing field by the choice of wood sizes and variety, bar sizes, chain types, engine tune, temperature and elevation and the operator induced differences.
It probably was only done for a gag, but I think one videoed cut had the log cut half in two down the off camera side and the apparent speedy cut only had the front half to cut! sure looked impressive I heard. Also what might be do able for one or two cuts cannot be sustained, or a modification method might have a service life of 10 or 20 hours running time at best. This is getting into evaluating modifications but you are still judging what is suitable for YOUR application and you have to get thru the hype and spin. A dyno chart showing power curve over short and long time and a test for power drop off over say 1000 hours continuous at 75% would be dandy but think how expensive to do.

 

[1953greg]

bottom line

What does it take to make a comparison of two different saws or components, that eliminates simple personal preferance or induced error? We have all seen posts where the person was obviously either in love with, or hated, one or the other saw or builder (if modifications considered) or there was some obvious condition that flawed a decent comparison.

Some things like horse racing break down into different categories so they dont put a clydesdale up against a thoroghbred or a 200 lb jockey against a hundred pounder or a quarter mile racer against a hundred mile endurance one!

What kind of preconditions really should the chainsaw cutting tests impose to make an unbiased appraisal more likely?

bottom line is how much work is ackomplished and how tired the operator is.

hows that for an evaluation?

 

[Lakeside53]

:monkey: he's right.. but now we need a "standard operator"..

O.k., everyone, PE classes start at 6.15am!

 

[Jacob J.]

If we eliminate personal preference, aren't most modern saws pretty much on the same level?

Yup.

And whether or not a saw really cuts faster is only one part of the equation. If the saw cuts faster but you don't like using it as much, then the fact that it cuts faster is rendered moot. I recently let a long time timber faller who is a devout Husqvarna guy try out a modded MS-460. While he did admit that it cut faster than his 372, He didn't care for the operating characteristics of the 460. As a result, he cut less timber that day. Same thing when I let longtime Stihl users run a Husky.

 

[Crofter]

bottom line is how much work is ackomplished and how tired the operator is.

hows that for an evaluation?

That is what counts for a work saw. In the name of fun or competition you can put up with the antics of a high strung race horse but you really dont need the aggravation of dealing with it when your mind is on trying to get a job done. Timberwolf has a certain little 026 that certainly is fast but the compression without a compression release makes it really nasty to start and I dont think it could be lugged much without frying it. I dont think he would tell anyone they could get 500 hours on a set of rings on that saw, cause I have seen the size of the ports. Any of the first line professional saws are pretty close to each other in their class and I would be a bit leary of one that is pumped up too much if its to be used as a work saw.
Just judging a couple of cut time videos without knowing how the performance is tricked out and trying to compare it to another a thousand miles away wont give you much to pick out a work saw. For instance, Saw troll could video his 372 in Norway and I could do mine here in Canada and it wouldnt do much more than provide entertainment; we could make it even more entertaining If I said that he doesn't know **** about sharpening a chain and I am sure he could come back with something to stir the pot. Imagine now if his cut time were faster and he could slander the modifications on my saw! Unless the same person tries both saws on the same wood with the same bar chain sprocket combo, on the same day, nothing is proved. That also taking for granted that the third party operator has no motive to see one or the other win. It is entertaining though