John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Another thing to do as you learn is to change your foot positions so that you become ambipedexstrous 
The bottom leg seems to do most of the work.
The bottom leg seems to do most of the work.
Footlocking ???
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treeguy347
ArboristSite Operative
I haven't footlocked since getting a pair of CMI Ultrascenders. They're a very efficient way of getting up a rope. I use this statement with caution, but they are pretty idiot-proof. It takes a definite (but not inconvienient) effort to remove them from the rope. I pair them with a 10.5mm static rope. Check out the book "On Rope" - it has a lot of useful methods for using ropes to get around.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Are you ascending on single rope (SRT or doubled rope (DdRT), or traditional loop climbing?
lync
ArboristSite Operative
Since srt has been mentioned , I have a question.
I use two ascenders on a single line , 1- right hand petzl, attached to center "d" on my saddle. 1 - left handed petzl, also attached to center"d" ,left handed one has a loop of webbing
that hangs down about 30 inches so my feet can fit side by side in webbing. Stand up advance right hand, sit down advance left hand. and so on. Since both ascenders are tied into saddle, is there a need for a non mechanical backup? (prussic cord clipped above top ascender).
I use two ascenders on a single line , 1- right hand petzl, attached to center "d" on my saddle. 1 - left handed petzl, also attached to center"d" ,left handed one has a loop of webbing
that hangs down about 30 inches so my feet can fit side by side in webbing. Stand up advance right hand, sit down advance left hand. and so on. Since both ascenders are tied into saddle, is there a need for a non mechanical backup? (prussic cord clipped above top ascender).
treeguy347
ArboristSite Operative
I climb SRT. Lync, Sounds like the exact same system I use. I use my right hand to advance my feet though, but that's just personal preferenceAs long as you aren't trusting your life to just one mechanical ascender, you should be safe. The book The Tree Climber's Companion , by Jeff Jepson illustrates this method that you have described in pgs 44-46. It says "The system, with all of it's components should ... provide two attachment points for means of ascension, as well as fall protection ... The "sit-stand" method satisfys these requirements." I have seen people use prusiks as a backup by attaching one just above their ascender so that the hitch gets pushed up as you climb. I don't feel the need for a non-mechanical backup, I think an extra prusik in the system would get in the way.
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Nine years without going splat!
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Nine years without going splat!
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
Footlocking
Footwear has a good deal to do with it. I wear mountain boots exclusively and one of my favorites thus far, two pair ago, were the Salomon GTX6, common and current model in the sporting goods stores. These had almost a 'rope cleat' configuration in the inside arch area and climbed like no others I'd owned. If that site were actually built to better grip a rope, much like a rope cleat would, I think it could help, maybe, to simplify learning and using the footlock technique.
6 or 7 years ago I took two single CMI ascenders, carefully pulled the pins, inserted a common pin, and riveted the bodies together. Used this for a couple years on doubled rope. Finally Kong came out with a dual handled ascender, their double ascender, which has served me faithfully and flawlessly for several years now. I have this rigged with dual slings for my own peace of mind. Throw a prussik on up ahead of the ascenders. I use right hand on the right-side ascender handle, left hand on the rope(s) just under the ascenders, both hands moving together on the up-push. I used to leave left hand in one place while right hand moved the ascender up, but I eek out just a little more efficiency with both hands moving up in unison.
Footwear has a good deal to do with it. I wear mountain boots exclusively and one of my favorites thus far, two pair ago, were the Salomon GTX6, common and current model in the sporting goods stores. These had almost a 'rope cleat' configuration in the inside arch area and climbed like no others I'd owned. If that site were actually built to better grip a rope, much like a rope cleat would, I think it could help, maybe, to simplify learning and using the footlock technique.
6 or 7 years ago I took two single CMI ascenders, carefully pulled the pins, inserted a common pin, and riveted the bodies together. Used this for a couple years on doubled rope. Finally Kong came out with a dual handled ascender, their double ascender, which has served me faithfully and flawlessly for several years now. I have this rigged with dual slings for my own peace of mind. Throw a prussik on up ahead of the ascenders. I use right hand on the right-side ascender handle, left hand on the rope(s) just under the ascenders, both hands moving together on the up-push. I used to leave left hand in one place while right hand moved the ascender up, but I eek out just a little more efficiency with both hands moving up in unison.
FLing was beating me a few years ago, i felt like my legs where too short (quiet JP!), after all they barely reach the ground whenst i'm standing.... So i decided to really work on it, and was developing a strategy of bringing them way up till the souls of my feats had to touch as my hips rotated out for more travel per stroke.
Well, long story to short (yes, i can actually do that!) that is the wrong angle of pull on the hip, and i kinda popped it outta joint. Believe me, you don't want to end up at emergency with that pain! It didn't come on till the next day, and actually i thought that i was getting the hang of FLing, and when i awoke in pain tried my trusty chiro, hours later went to a walkin clinic that gave me pain killers; about 4pm decided i shouldn't be playing hero, as i felt like i was blown apart on a mine field! The Demeral drip as i awoke was nice, but as i had gone into shock and passed out from the pain; i missed most of it! So i would kinda ad-vise one to keep their knees two-gather pretty much and not try any ariel yoga positions, at least i think it couda saved my FLing career!
When i 'body thrusting' i try to get a smooth rocking motion, whereby; my legs falling down power my chest and sholders up on the pivot of my waist, then i grab the line and hold it to my lil'chest and rock back letting that massive weightpull on the rope. i kinda got that idea from "On Rope" and there descriptions on how the hardest thing to efficient accsenion was keeping your chest/shoulder weight inline with the rope, so you weren't constantly fighting it falling out of line (they suggest a chest roller device), so all of your effort was focused moving up the rope. So i took this heavier/leveraged point and turned it into the power of lift! Between that, the 2/1 of the line and letting my lil'feats land on anything to take weight off the line; i do ok for an olde midget on short runs!
OK, i lied about the length, but balance in all things.......
Well, long story to short (yes, i can actually do that!) that is the wrong angle of pull on the hip, and i kinda popped it outta joint. Believe me, you don't want to end up at emergency with that pain! It didn't come on till the next day, and actually i thought that i was getting the hang of FLing, and when i awoke in pain tried my trusty chiro, hours later went to a walkin clinic that gave me pain killers; about 4pm decided i shouldn't be playing hero, as i felt like i was blown apart on a mine field! The Demeral drip as i awoke was nice, but as i had gone into shock and passed out from the pain; i missed most of it! So i would kinda ad-vise one to keep their knees two-gather pretty much and not try any ariel yoga positions, at least i think it couda saved my FLing career!
When i 'body thrusting' i try to get a smooth rocking motion, whereby; my legs falling down power my chest and sholders up on the pivot of my waist, then i grab the line and hold it to my lil'chest and rock back letting that massive weightpull on the rope. i kinda got that idea from "On Rope" and there descriptions on how the hardest thing to efficient accsenion was keeping your chest/shoulder weight inline with the rope, so you weren't constantly fighting it falling out of line (they suggest a chest roller device), so all of your effort was focused moving up the rope. So i took this heavier/leveraged point and turned it into the power of lift! Between that, the 2/1 of the line and letting my lil'feats land on anything to take weight off the line; i do ok for an olde midget on short runs!
OK, i lied about the length, but balance in all things.......
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
Non-footlock footlocking
Does anyone use the MarBar System?? I watched this in use at the TCI Expo a few years back. What it is, is two doubled ascenders (four ascenders in all). Each of the coupled rigs has a 'handlebar' permanently attached to it. With one, you hold the bars with your hands. With the other, you stand on the bar with your feet. The two are linked together with, I dunno, 5 feet, six feet? of webbing and your saddle is slinged into the top ascender pair.
The crowd at TCI watched the demonstrator move up the rope faster than I think any of us had ever seen ANYONE go up a rope, and with apparant ease. We all sort of held our hearts and went," Holy sh*# !". We asked him to do it again as many of us were still in disbeleif that ascending a rope could look so easy.
Sherrill sells this system. The only downdraw I could see (other than they're a little pricey) was that it took a groundie holding the bottom of the rope to keep it taut, which could be done also by attaching your chainsaw to the rope and letting it hang a foot or two above the ground to tension your climb line. Get up in your tree and then pull your saw up.
Does anyone use the MarBar System?? I watched this in use at the TCI Expo a few years back. What it is, is two doubled ascenders (four ascenders in all). Each of the coupled rigs has a 'handlebar' permanently attached to it. With one, you hold the bars with your hands. With the other, you stand on the bar with your feet. The two are linked together with, I dunno, 5 feet, six feet? of webbing and your saddle is slinged into the top ascender pair.
The crowd at TCI watched the demonstrator move up the rope faster than I think any of us had ever seen ANYONE go up a rope, and with apparant ease. We all sort of held our hearts and went," Holy sh*# !". We asked him to do it again as many of us were still in disbeleif that ascending a rope could look so easy.
Sherrill sells this system. The only downdraw I could see (other than they're a little pricey) was that it took a groundie holding the bottom of the rope to keep it taut, which could be done also by attaching your chainsaw to the rope and letting it hang a foot or two above the ground to tension your climb line. Get up in your tree and then pull your saw up.
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
Greg Liu, kliminfool over at t***buzz, makes the Easy Bar. It's a single aluminum rod and straps. Nice and compact. I use a single CMI Easy Bar for a foot ascender instead of the Pantin now.
You don't need a groundie to tail the rope. There are several alternatives:
*Tie a gob of rope into a knot to act as a weight
*Tie your chainsaw, you can then haul it up later without having groundie
*Use lighter rope-static line will start to tail sooner than arbo rope-smaller diameter and lighter
*Take a loop of rope out of the bottom of the ascender and loop it up through your chain saw loop. As you ascend you reach down at your side to tail the rope and don't have to bend and grab the rope under your feet.
Like Spidey said, keep your knees together!
Be sure to VOTE!!! If you don't, you can't talk about politics for the next two years. You'll have to be content with what you got by not voting.
Tom
You don't need a groundie to tail the rope. There are several alternatives:
*Tie a gob of rope into a knot to act as a weight
*Tie your chainsaw, you can then haul it up later without having groundie
*Use lighter rope-static line will start to tail sooner than arbo rope-smaller diameter and lighter
*Take a loop of rope out of the bottom of the ascender and loop it up through your chain saw loop. As you ascend you reach down at your side to tail the rope and don't have to bend and grab the rope under your feet.
Like Spidey said, keep your knees together!
Be sure to VOTE!!! If you don't, you can't talk about politics for the next two years. You'll have to be content with what you got by not voting.
Tom
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
TWO key footlocking points
Successful footlocking, IMO, is about not going up with a hitch, but rather an ascender. If you really want friction free, consistent, predictable performance, an ascender simply outperforms a hitch. Anyone is free to argue me, but I've done it both ways, and still occasionally do an ascent on a hitch (usually as a demo), but there's just no contesting the large difference in efficiency between the two.
The second major point I see, after ascenders, is footwear. I have instructed many a man in how to footlock, but if he (or she) is wearing shoes or boots not conducive to footlocking, then footlocking does not happen, is not appealing and the climber, in a worst case scenario, will assume that what they experienced, is what footlocking will be for them, and go back to body thrusting up a rope. What a shame. Being held back from your full potential, just because of your boots.
ps, backing up your ascender is quick and easy and should always be done.
Successful footlocking, IMO, is about not going up with a hitch, but rather an ascender. If you really want friction free, consistent, predictable performance, an ascender simply outperforms a hitch. Anyone is free to argue me, but I've done it both ways, and still occasionally do an ascent on a hitch (usually as a demo), but there's just no contesting the large difference in efficiency between the two.
The second major point I see, after ascenders, is footwear. I have instructed many a man in how to footlock, but if he (or she) is wearing shoes or boots not conducive to footlocking, then footlocking does not happen, is not appealing and the climber, in a worst case scenario, will assume that what they experienced, is what footlocking will be for them, and go back to body thrusting up a rope. What a shame. Being held back from your full potential, just because of your boots.
ps, backing up your ascender is quick and easy and should always be done.
SteveBullman
User Formerly known as stephenbullman
i rarely have the need to footlock, but when i do i have a pair of kong ascenders for the job.
only advantage i can see in using a friction hitch is to make it easier to descend in a hurry if needs be
only advantage i can see in using a friction hitch is to make it easier to descend in a hurry if needs be
NickfromWI
Addicted to ArboristSite
You can't descend on a standard footlock prusik in the same way you can with a Blakes Hitch, VT, Distel, or other climbing friction hitch. When footlocking straight up, you don't have that 2:1 pulley action that lessens the load on the friction hitch. When footlocking, ALL your weight is in the prusik.
That being said, I still prefer the footlock prusik to the ascenders. I've tried Petzl, Kong Double Ascender, and the Rock Exotica double ascender from Sherrill. I twist as I footlock up. My body slowly spins around. When too many twists develop in the rope, I have to stop and spin around the other way to take the twists out so that the ascenders can go ahead. A friction hitch goes right over the twists. And yes, it still locks up even if it's on a twists. I checked.
love
nick
That being said, I still prefer the footlock prusik to the ascenders. I've tried Petzl, Kong Double Ascender, and the Rock Exotica double ascender from Sherrill. I twist as I footlock up. My body slowly spins around. When too many twists develop in the rope, I have to stop and spin around the other way to take the twists out so that the ascenders can go ahead. A friction hitch goes right over the twists. And yes, it still locks up even if it's on a twists. I checked.
love
nick
huskycandoit
ArboristSite Operative
footlockin
R u a ******* who footlocks from the end of the rope
I need a professional to teach u boy!
R u a ******* who footlocks from the end of the rope
I need a professional to teach u boy!
Thanks. Tried that today and it makes it much easier. Hung the saw a foot and a half off the ground, just enough that my wieght didn't put it on the ground. Much better than trying to set something on the rope.
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Re: footlockin
And who might this be addressed to???
Originally posted by huskycandoit
R u a ******* who footlocks from the end of the rope
I need a professional to teach u boy!
And who might this be addressed to???
NeTree
Addicted to ArboristSite
Originally posted by netree
Yep, I footlock alot, and it IS hard when you're 30 lbs overweight like me, but it's a hell of a workout!
Try several different wrap techniques, and when you find one that works well with your footwear, practice and practice some more.
New England Tree Service
Very funny. Nice to see SOMEBODY has a sense of humor.
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Geez, dudes!
