for whatever reason...

[oldirty]

have you ever walked away from a tree?

no pics on this one but take my word on it.

mature red oak in the back corner of the lot. red oak leans at like 50-60 degrees out over the nice wood fence separating 2 yards along the neighbors side of the fence a nice yew and uanamiss (i just butchered those two spellings!!! hahaha... anyway) on the customers side is a nice dog pen made of the same material as the fence and its big. there is also a shed next to the butt. oh and lets not forget the guy wire running the length of the property, right over the top of the dog pen, into another big fat oak behind this leaner that most of the target tree is over.

i'm not done.

ok, so this lean goes like 30 feet in the air and then shoots like 5 leaders out into general directions. 2 go vertical and then split away. one fat one goes over the neighbors bushes and shed. 1 runs along the fence line and the other goes over the pen and wires. all these limbs are looong and fat. with longer fingers of branches reaching for light.

underneath that union of wood is white pine doing its best to grow towards light and is all into that oak. what i mean by this is that i couldve free climbed the pine into that ok and back down without worrying about footing.

the pine stays.


ok. heres the deal. this work was supposed to be for the guy i have been doing saturdays for. it wouldve been him and i vs that tree. it wouldve been too much i think.

i know it would have been too much. maybe if i had my the dudes i work 9-5 with it wouldve been a different story but for just me and someone that does not have much experience i think i made the right call. if anything happened in the tree i dont think he wouldve been able to get to me and i dont think it wouldve been pretty for him on the ground with so many obstacles and only himself to work with.

there was no way i was going to be in that tree for that long with that much stress for my day rate and i told him that. lol

he called me last night and said "its got a little lean to it but i think we'll be ok"

lol


this is the first time i walked away from a tree. i feel like a sally but i think i made the right move. so needless to say i am not feeling as confident about myself as i usually do and this is your perfect opportunity to take some shots at me.


at least on the way home i got to stop at my favorite breakfast spot for some grub, the morning wasnt a total waste.

 

[Mitchell]

good on ya

Traditionally, I have the problem of not being able to say no to friends, knowing full well i'll be regretting it later. Of course, if the price is right to make it worth your while you can hire the lads you need. However that price might be very high to offset the liability.

With friends or good business connections to save them the high liability money, I'll now try to put the ball in their court by listing the manpower and equipment I need them to provide for their job. Big crappy jobs are not to bad if your there more as a working consultant then being responsible for the job start to finish.

 

[woodchux]

Not every tree can be climbed.... dont feel bad about walking away.

Maybe you could winch on the tree until it is strait , tie it off, and then work on it as normal?

 

[treemandan]

have you ever walked away from a tree?

no pics on this one but take my word on it.

mature red oak in the back corner of the lot. red oak leans at like 50-60 degrees out over the nice wood fence separating 2 yards along the neighbors side of the fence a nice yew and uanamiss (i just butchered those two spellings!!! hahaha... anyway) on the customers side is a nice dog pen made of the same material as the fence and its big. there is also a shed next to the butt. oh and lets not forget the guy wire running the length of the property, right over the top of the dog pen, into another big fat oak behind this leaner that most of the target tree is over.

i'm not done.

ok, so this lean goes like 30 feet in the air and then shoots like 5 leaders out into general directions. 2 go vertical and then split away. one fat one goes over the neighbors bushes and shed. 1 runs along the fence line and the other goes over the pen and wires. all these limbs are looong and fat. with longer fingers of branches reaching for light.

underneath that union of wood is white pine doing its best to grow towards light and is all into that oak. what i mean by this is that i couldve free climbed the pine into that ok and back down without worrying about footing.

the pine stays.


ok. heres the deal. this work was supposed to be for the guy i have been doing saturdays for. it wouldve been him and i vs that tree. it wouldve been too much i think.

i know it would have been too much. maybe if i had my the dudes i work 9-5 with it wouldve been a different story but for just me and someone that does not have much experience i think i made the right call. if anything happened in the tree i dont think he wouldve been able to get to me and i dont think it wouldve been pretty for him on the ground with so many obstacles and only himself to work with.

there was no way i was going to be in that tree for that long with that much stress for my day rate and i told him that. lol

he called me last night and said "its got a little lean to it but i think we'll be ok"

lol


this is the first time i walked away from a tree. i feel like a sally but i think i made the right move. so needless to say i am not feeling as confident about myself as i usually do and this is your perfect opportunity to take some shots at me.


at least on the way home i got to stop at my favorite breakfast spot for some grub, the morning wasnt a total waste.

I would like to take a shot, here it is; you would be an idiot to try that oak like that.
Jobs need to be bid by the guy who is going to do the job, if that happens: NO MORE UNDERBIDDING, NO MORE OVER-TAXED CREWS, NO MORE HECTIC TIME CRUNCH and NO MORE LOOKING LIKE A JACK ASS. Of course it helps if the guy doing the bidding and the work knows how.
I just saw a nasty silver maple, the man said he had 1500 to TD it. I said "it looks like 25 and do you really think yo're 2 guys can move that wood in one day, even if they can cut through it?, He said he would talk to them.
The tree easily could of gone over any minute, it was alive, trunk big and hollow, open at the top where limbs had ripped out. Leaning over the street and 3 phase it was.
So with safety in mind, YES! 2500 mnfer. It easier with a lift but I would want 300.00 to climb it, 3on ground, trucks, chipper and loader for a 9 hour day= 2500.
Anyone who gives low rates for crazy #### ought to be put to sleep.Any one who puts high rates on crazy #### and thinks he can do it cheap needs to be woken up.
When you see the guy they get to climb it, try not to fell sorry for him.
Just looked at 2 very large poplar (125 feet). One was codom. at the ground with much decay at the base, the other towered over the house and had one live limb on it. Touch it and it game over.
Hard ( maybe impossible) acsess for crane and little room on the ground. With the liabilty for the dead that is obviuosly going to break off when you try to hook it plus the time I say its hopeless for anything under 25 and thats not hundred maam. Of course you have to sign here where it expailns we are not going to be resonsible for your ignorance.
And I leave you with this- How do yew spell ewe?

 

[Mikecutstrees]

Walking away often times is the smart thing to do in my book. I looked at a locust last year that was 3+ feet in diameter, leaning over a 100+ year old house, with no access. I walked away. I don't even know if a crane could have done that job, maybe a spider lift. Some jobs are just too big or risky for me to climb and are too much stress on me to be worth it. Lots of easier work out there.... Big companies need work too!

 

[Nailsbeats]

I'll fly out and do the job with you Oldirty. lol

For those tough and tedious jobs you need 2 things, the money, and the qualified help. Sounds like you could do it, but the guy won't pay what it's worth?

If there is no money to pay to get qualified people to help you, and it is absolutely you and him with no other options, then I would say you did the right thing. That tree sounds like no place for a rookie groundman, that would kill you in the tree on a job like that. How does he plan to get it down if you walk?

 

[joesawer]

You did the right thing.
Even if he was the best ground man ever, there is no way for one person to do the technical roping and keep the limited work area clear. You would spend all your time waiting on him. It is not practical for one man to move that much volume and weight while a climber waits on him.

I have walked away from more than one job before, for many different reasons. Including they did not pay enough, I did not have the equipment/support to do it safely/efficiently, Because the tree was dead to long and decayed to bad, and trees that where unsafe to climb.
I have had to stop climbers from climbing unsafe trees before.
One time sticks out in my memory.
The climber was a smoke jumper who was working with us in his off season. He is a very capable and intelligent person. It was his first day working with us and the owner of the company told him to climb one tree while he went to climb another. The boss left me with the new guy.
The tree was a dead ponderosa pine with a pretty good lean to it. the reason for climbing it was to make the clean up easier and the lean was not in a favorable place for it to fall.
The climber carried his gear to the tree and I walked up to discuss his plan for the tree. This was my first look at the tree. I did not like the way the angle of the lean looked, it was unnatural, it did not look as if it would have grown that way. The climber also did not like it, but sisnce it was his first day and first tree for the company, he did not want to look scared.
I walked back to the truck and got my ax and peeled the bark off the trunk and revealed a very bad break in the tree, it was in the process of falling over. The young climber was still ready to climb it because he wanted to make a good impression.
I don't think my position as foreman had been made clear to him, I had a little trouble convincing him to leave that tree alone, that he wan not going to make a bad impression on us by not climbing it. We would rather lose a little money on the job by bringing in a crane, or cutting it in a way that was hard to clean up, or even canceling our contract, than to have him climb a tree that is actually in the process of falling over.
It is relevant that virtually every tree that we where cutting at that time was dead and had the bark slipping and vertical cracks.

 

[John464]

its good you walked. Dont think at as being defeated, think of if cirmunstances were different. You had the 5 other teammates there and possibly a crane it would been just another well thought out technical job. Perhaps this could be arranged?

 

[Treetom]

If I have the time to organize the special equipment, such as a large rental crane, and hire some additional climbers, I'll bid the job out for what it's worth to me. I rarely get such jobs because we have a lot of guys who own big cranes around here. We also have some other outfits who do jobs I bid at $2800.00 for $1000.00. If I'm at least two weeks out on my work schedule, I just pass on some jobs. I'm set up for a certain type of job that will turn a profit. I could do a job similar to what you described, as you probably could, OldDirty, but could do two or three less-risky jobs in the same amount of time, and show a better bottom line.

 

[beowulf343]

No need to feel down on yourself oldirty-it sounds more like you didn't have the oufit and the preparation needed to take it down, not that you didn't have the skill. Besides, some of us make a good living doing trees that guys like you walk away from. (Just bustin on ya man.)

And yes, i've walked away from a tree-the reason i left Asplundh. I was known as a guy who would climb anything, anywhere, anytime. Translation: young and dumb. One day, as i was sent out to climb something no one else wanted to touch, i had a sudden maturing moment. Was it worth risking my life for a job? Nope.

To be honest, in your situation, i'd have probably not done it either. It's not scared, it's just smart. (Now, for a good chunk of dough, a good crew, and whatever equipment i needed, no problem.)

 

[tomtrees58]

bad deal

you did the right thing theirs more trees out there good luck tom trees

 

[TDunk]

Oldirty, your moving to Alaska here soon anyways aren't you??? I haven't walked away from any jobs yet (this is only my third year so....) i've been close, but stayed. I Just got done this afternoon taking down a sugar maple that i started on Thurs. (started raining/wet snow so we called it a day) When i first looked at it, i was thinking to myself " i've got to be nuts", but i thought about it while i was waiting for the HO to show up and figured " might as well see how good i really am". So i bid it high and said right there to go ahead and do it. My point is that sometimes you nead a challenging job to see what your capable of. Now granted, if i looked at the tree your descibing, i might say p!ss on it too. Especially under those circumstances.

 

[hornett224]

i've never walked away from a tree.........

because of the tree itself.only because the customer wasn't willing to spend the money to do it correctly and safely or wouldn't let us scratch their precious lawn.it's my neck and reputation on the line and i call the shots on those.

any tree can be gotten down with the right approach,crew and equipment.

 

[treeman82]

I walked away from 1 job in the past 2 weeks. I was told it was 3 cherry trees, put them on the ground and that's it. Get there, the guy wants 4 plus a branch... I walked away... felt I was going to get burned.

 

[mckeetree]

I have never walked away or turned down a job as long as the client was willing to pay the price. I have had plenty that did not want to pay my quote. If you were uncomfortable with the tree then you were smart to not do it. I remember a big dead pine I was afraid to let my guys climb and the the only way to get a bucket to it was by water. So I got a price from a guy to take me there on his boat house building barge. When I gave the homeowner the price he ran me off.

 

[treemandan]

I have never walked away or turned down a job as long as the client was willing to pay the price. I have had plenty that did not want to pay my quote. If you were uncomfortable with the tree then you were smart to not do it. I remember a big dead pine I was afraid to let my guys climb and the the only way to get a bucket to it was by water. So I got a price from a guy to take me there on his boat house building barge. When I gave the homeowner the price he ran me off.

You should have scolded him in his neglect to leave such a hazzard for someone else. Does that tree still stand or did it fall and kill his kids?
I don't speak out of spite, I speak cause that is what happens. Now you are expected to bid on a job with your life.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

so needless to say i am not feeling as confident about myself as i usually do and this is your perfect opportunity to take some shots at me.

I would say it is more that you are maturing in your profession, then backing away from a challenge. More often then not, we take the very difficult jobs on because we want to step up to that challenge.

Now you've been there, done that, a few too many times. You say...Yeah, I can do that, but not this way. I'd beat myself up for not enough profit. For the effort you could do two or three jobs that are relatively easier, but ones that the average person could not do as efficiently.

Why should you step up to the plate and start a job that you know will not be done until late the next day if only one man is on the ground? As a sub, I do it several times a year. Where's the ground crew?".... "Wow, you screwed the pooch on this bid, you sure you want to loose money, cuz I ain't eating any of my fees if we start?"

For someone so ready to speak his mind, I'm surprised you are embarrassed that someone else had a case of cranial-rectal insertion on the bid and tried to put you in the position of looking bad

have never walked away or turned down a job as long as the client was willing to pay the price.

If I'm biding on something that I don't really want, I put the super high bid on it where I will make a healthy profit it comes through. It has happend on occasion. I get it because i talk sense to the client, I need X number of people, I'll have Y loads of wood and chip to haul out and a short dump of sawdust rakings. I'll get it don't in Z days with some lawn damage that we will repair. We will stick to one path, and have a double layer of 3/4 in plywood for turning the skidder on, or cut everything down to hand carry through the bittersweet arbor, not dragging anything across the new patio...

 

[DonnyO]

dude

The fact that the guy called you and tried to talk you into it, AFTER you had explained your reasoning to him, proves he's an ass. No doubt he's got big $$ on it. offer to work the ground for him!

 

[mckeetree]

If I'm biding on something that I don't really want, I put the super high bid on it where I will make a healthy profit it comes through. It has happend on occasion. I get it because i talk sense to the client, I need X number of people, I'll have Y loads of wood and chip to haul out and a short dump of sawdust rakings. I'll get it don't in Z days with some lawn damage that we will repair. We will stick to one path, and have a double layer of 3/4 in plywood for turning the skidder on, or cut everything down to hand carry through the bittersweet arbor, not dragging anything across the new patio...

Exactly.

 

[ASD]

We never walk from a job ! But we bid them with the right toys and man power and if their is any question of how to get-er done then the sales guy will bring our top climber to the job site before giving a price to the customer as it will be his A$$ on the line and it will be bid with the things that he needs to do it SAFE!!! and yes allot of people will not pay the $$$$$ to have it done safely. So we do not get all of the jobs we bid but we also have not had a send someone to the ER ever in 19 years of bis. So you did the right thing by not climbing a tree you did not feel safe in !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

B-safe
Scott