Forest to pasture

[mahning]

This is a single drive starting inside the tropical forest and ending on the road amongst the livestock waiting to take over. On the way we see the work of transient squatters who secure the transformation in hope of a better life (which they never get). The road was cut to extract lumber, but as it is not secured, this is in fact a liquidation, not an extraction.
[video=youtube;Rakn6jAttX8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rakn6jAttX8[/video]

 

[2dogs]

Nicaragua?

 

[forestryworks]

Tropical forest soils are HIGHLY unsustainable for any form of agriculture, as the soils are very poor. Almost all of the nutrients in tropical forest systems exist in the above ground biomass, not in the soil.

 

[griffonks]

Honduras I think.... La Moskitia is in Honduras anyway. I heard they were raising taxes in order to raise their military.

 

[slowp]

I'm sorry, but when I see the word "extraction" used alongside forest, I turn off. I won't watch your documentary. While it may be a truthful term for there, the enviro industry uses extraction as one of their many buzzwords. It, along with Ancient, Pristine, Industrial, etc. immediately tell my brain that propaganda is about to spew forth.

You might have a valid cause there, but I'm not going to participate.

 

[teatersroad]

I thought you were talking about New York, back in the day.

 

[mahning]

Yes teatersroad that would be right (& I remind folks how the the "Bowery" was once spelled "Bouverie"), except that, as forestryworks rightly points out, these are not NY soils, what's left after the trees are gone, past a few seasons of "agriculture", will oxidize and wash off.

slowp, I don't really understand your intention. You might be right. This is not my mother tong, and my words may not be quite right (actually, on the Youtube description, I changed that phrase to "The road was cut to extract lumber, but it was not secured and so, this is in fact, in one single fairly sloppy harvest, the liquidation of an incredibly productive and resilient system." You seem to feel stronly about somethng, but I can't understand you level and means of participation. I am not posting a documentary. These are visual records of events in which I participate. They show the fate of assets to which I am personnaly commited. We are not at a conference, a commitee vote or an academic debate. Ok, you don't like "extraction" what do you suggest? Let's be decent and considerate. These are hard time and we all need each other.

griffonks , 2dogs is correct. The moskitia, covers the entires Atlantic coast from Honduras to the North of Costa Rica. The frontier between Honduras and Nicaraguameant meant nothing to them until fairly recently. See Mosquito Coast

 

[hammerlogging]

Yes teatersroad that would be right (& I remind folks how the the "Bowery" was once spelled "Bouverie"), except that, as forestryworks rightly points out, these are not NY soils, what's left after the trees are gone, past a few seasons of "agriculture", will oxidize and wash off.

,

Yes complicated. As its been pointed out to me before, this is the same as occurred in the northeast, south, lake states, and PNW, all still timber producing regions. The Piedmont region of the south lost over 4' of topsoil and subsoil from deforestation and subsequent poor farming practices.

So, is what they are doing wrong, an inevitable progression, I don't know. Should we know better? Probably, but we have to be available to teach the sustainability of resources.

I did hear the purr of what must have been a sweet little yota diesel. How bout that for superficial?

 

[mahning]

4' of topsoil !!!

,

Yes complicated. As its been pointed out to me before, this is the same as occurred in the northeast, south, lake states, and PNW, all still timber producing regions. The Piedmont region of the south lost over 4' of topsoil and subsoil from deforestation and subsequent poor farming practices.

So, is what they are doing wrong, an inevitable progression, I don't know. Should we know better? Probably, but we have to be avaial?

Hi hammerlogging. Sorry I disappeared a bit.
Actually, I think it gets simpler if we account for a bit of complexity.
I also often hear that "developed countries" cleared most of their forest early on, and so, deforestation must be a necessary starter of development.

I don't believe this: in a temperate zone, deforestation can bring about centuries of agriculture, but in tropical zones it will most likely bring desertification.
Establishing a desert is not the same as establishing agricultural land.

You write "The Piedmont region of the south lost over 4' of topsoil".. Wow - 4 feet of topsoil!
The video is shot where there's not much more than 10 INCHES of soil altogether! Over 80% of the biomass & carbon are in vegetation above ground. Once the ground is bare, alternating seasons of burning sun and pounding rain will oxidize, pulverize and wash off whatever living soil was there.

This is shot in Central America where we did not recover the pre-conquest human population until mid-early 20th century. Before the Spaniards + horses and cows wreckage, another civilization thrived. The memoirs of those who encountered this civilization sing a paradise of layered gardens (surely romanced but still, many were fed by these agro systems). We are now in 2011 and we recognize knowledge as our main asset – we supposedly can see things as they are and we can imagine other path to sustenance and wellbeing for nations in the humid tropics. Deforestation is not it: it enforces poverty- both cultural and economic.

 

[hammerlogging]

Absolutley, and I am glad you pointed out the differences, and the room for progress.

If there is one thing I know about forestry, its that any course of action can be rationalized, not even including economics as a reason, though its really the only one all along, good or bad.

I have some wild west experiences too, I'll try and get some of this to you.