Four stroke chainsaw at Lowes

[OM617YOTA]

I really need to get a cutting video up. It cuts about has fast as my 80v Kobalt electric saw. Not a speed demon by any means, but perfectly capable for most people. Just fine for homeowners.

It's a torque monster, I do want to find a square grind chain and seriously lower the rakers and see what it'll do.

 

[TBS]

Yeah but the 2 cycle ban.....
I mean it is probably better than a battery saw.

Not a just a 2 stroke ban, the little 4 strokes are included.

 

[GeorgiaVol]

Well good luck with that.
I'll fire up my 372 in remembrance of y'all.

 

[TBS]

Well good luck with that.
I'll fire up my 372 in remembrance of y'all.

Oh we'll still be able 2 stroke saws, gas generators, and lawn mowers shipped right to our door. We still won't be able to get the senix saw.

 

[ericm979]

Word from an aide for the legislator who pushed the bill is that saws over 45cc will be excluded, presumeably because there's no battery saws in that size class. And also I've read that some categories of equipment won't be regulated under this until 2028. But that's not in the law. The rule making is up to CARB and who knows what they will do. The bogus emissions numbers they produced which got repeated in the bill don't make me confident. It's not the first time CARB has used bogus numbers as a justification.

BTW the CARB rules have to be issued next year per the law but they don't go into effect until later. It will apply to engines made after Jan 1 2024 or as soon as CARB thinks it's feasible, whichever is later (per the law). I bet if there's a cutoff in 2024 there will be a lot of engines made in late 2023.

And yea, I think it applies to four stroke saws too though that could be up to CARB.

Here's the law if anyone wants to read it: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202120220AB1346

 

[Captain Bruce]

I purchases two of these, I'm donating one of them to the City's Parks and Recreation volunteer trail crews after I hold a chainsaw safety and certification series of sessions to ensure that people are safe. The first saw would not start, it does not run however the second saw runs just fine, it started the first pull and has been used in the field exactly once.

The second saw I have checked for spark and made sure that the gap was about .711, and I checked the gas inflow and outflow and that's fine, yet the second saw refuses to run -- and my volunteer group and I have had maybe 40 saws pass through our hands over the past 2 decades, we have worked with a lot of saws, and we get our certifications refreshed by a USFS Hot Shot fire crew every 2 or 3 years depending, so we have a lot of experience with 2-stroke saws.

These new 4-strokes from Senix we are evaluating since California will be banning the sale of 2-stroke next year for State and civilian use. Us Federal volunteers may or may not be expected to replace our 2-strokes with 4-strokes as the 2-strokes die off -- and we put a LOT of wood under our saws every year so we replace them every 4 years or so when even rebuilding the cylinder and carbs gets to be diminishing returns.

So we have mixed feelings / reviews about this saw. The one that runs is too new to know how well it is going to behave in difficult efforts, and the second one will not run at all.

We do find that this 4-stroke is a LOT quieter than the Stihl 2 strokes that we use, and we have a lot of Stihl in our call-out sheds. Over the coming decades we expect the saws to need to be replaced if we must follow State or civilian rules, we don't know yet if volunteers must follow Federal, yet so far we have mixed feelings about the Senix CS4QL-L3.

That may change. I have contacted the manufacturer's technical people to run through what we have done to diagnose the saw and to request additional suggested checks we might perform before sending it back to the manufacturer. I assume that the saws we purchased were exercised for a few hours before being shipped, then the oil drained from the powerhead before being shipped, so I assume that the manufacturer tested the saws before shipping -- yet upon arrival we find one of them absolutely will not start so we can't be certain that they get tested well or competently before being shipped.

Any way I Googled and found this discussion and thought I would create an account, Bookmark this discussion, and offer my initial evaluation. We shall see what the manufacturer says, I don't want to crack open the carb and rebuild since it's under warranty for the next two years.

Absolutely I will follow. Chinesium aside, the introduction of 4-cycle in string trimmers came and went like a prom date. The oil was specific. The level was crucial. Tip the power head up to use a pole saw attach't, the engine would starve, chug, and seize. READ the manual. I'll bet it states unit MUST be level at all times. Hang it up on a hook, and the crankcase, drains into the carb/cylinder? Good Luck...I've SEN ix movie before...

 

[FredricRice]

Try spraying some carb cleaner in the non-running saw's carb, see if it'll even cough.
There's zero chance these saws will hold up in your usage. They're homeowner saws, at absolute best.

I cracked the saw open and found that the throttle linkage was screwed up in the shipping, I got the tools out and set things right and it started and ran, no problem. The shipping dislodged the throttle linkage and things got jammed up. now it's working.

I need to call the manufacturer today, they called me back and wanted to talk about possible things to try, so in the morning I'll call them.

I think you're right, for the long weekend work we do overnight in the ANF the saws probably would not last long, I'm donating one saw to the City Parks and Recreation trails group which will likely not use it every day, and if they do, it will be small stuff.

For National Forest work we'll stick with the Stihls.

 

[FredricRice]

And if you need to get a part for it you might as well toss it.

You remind me that I have two saws that I need to part out or otherwise scrap, a Homelite and a Poulan -- or however it's spelled. I think we took them up Mount Saint Hawkins and got about 30 deadfalls bucked up off of the Hawkins Ridge Trail before they just died. Forest Service crews went up with horses the year before and spray painted numbers on them, 178 deadfalls and we managed to get about 30 or so before we killed those light saws.

My son kept telling me that I'm not saving money buying cheap saws. It's funny, the forest Service uses Stihl for a reason, and al of our normal saws are Stihl 2 stroke, various displacements. We haul them up and down mountains in cold and heat and various altitudes and they always run, we never fight with them -- but we pay 2 or 3 times what I paid for these 4-strokes cost. Guess we learned a lesson!

If you google San Gabriel Mountains Trailbuilders you can find some photos of what we do with our saws. If you go to the CrystalLake.Name web site there's a menu list on the let and up at the top is shows trail work that's about 6 years out of date. We kill cheap saws but rely on the expensive ones for "real work."

Also if you look at "Pavil Canyon Trail" page on Facebook, you'll see some very heavy bucking we did in that canyon to get it re-opened. My son did about 80% of that saw work, it took about 18 months to get that canyon cleared and the original trail re-opened.

 

[FredricRice]

And if you need to get a part for it you might as well toss it.

You remind me that I have two saws that I need to part out or otherwise scrap, a Homelite and a Poulan -- or however it's spelled. I think we took them up Mount Saint Hawkins and got about 30 deadfalls bucked up off of the Hawkins Ridge Trail before they just died. Forest Service crews went up with horses the year before and spray painted numbers on them, 178 deadfalls and we managed to get about 30 or so before we killed those light saws.

My son kept telling me that I'm not saving money buying cheap saws. It's funny, the forest Service uses Stihl for a reason, and al of our normal saws are Stihl 2 stroke, various displacements. We haul them up and down mountains in cold and heat and various altitudes and they always run, we never fight with them -- but we pay 2 or 3 times what I paid for these 4-strokes cost. Guess we learned a lesson!

If you google San Gabriel Mountains Trailbuilders you can find some photos of what we do with our saws. If you go to the CrystalLake.Name web site there's a menu list on the let and up at the top is shows trail work that's about 6 years out of date. We kill cheap saws but rely on the expensive ones for "real work."

Also if you look at "Pavil Canyon Trail" page on Facebook, you'll see some very heavy bucking we did in that canyon to get it re-opened. My son did about 80% of that saw work, it took about 18 months to get that canyon cleared and the original trail re-opened.

 

[FredricRice]

By the way, if anyone is wondering how well these 4 strokes work, now that the Trailbuilders have both of them running, this morning we took a saw to the Dalton Wilderness Area of the City of Glendora, California to buck up a branch that was obstructing access to Pavil Canton Trail and Keiser Trail.

We did a grant total of 4 cuts. But the saws are new so we'll break them in slowly.

What we found was that this saw was *very* quiet, the 4 stroke was a lot quieter than any 2 stroke in our inventory, this 4 stroke was quieter than our smallest 2 stroke Stihl.

The lack of noise is a good selling point since we're operating saws in among the recreating public, and because we work mostly on weekends, we're working when most people are hiking, camping, or otherwise recreating, and people don't like to hear noisy saws when they have a chance to go outdoors, so having quiet saws is likely a good feature of this 4 stroke.

 

[haakon]

Absolutely I will follow. Chinesium aside, the introduction of 4-cycle in string trimmers came and went like a prom date. The oil was specific. The level was crucial. Tip the power head up to use a pole saw attach't, the engine would starve, chug, and seize. READ the manual. I'll bet it states unit MUST be level at all times. Hang it up on a hook, and the crankcase, drains into the carb/cylinder? Good Luck...I've SEN ix movie before...

Never had that problem with 4 stroke trimmers - from the cheapie chinese one i have to the high end Honda my olds have. They run upside down fine.

So does my plastic 4 stroke saw from Aldi.

 

[FredricRice]

I've seen video footage of this saw cutting wood, it's not very impressive. There's a reason 4 stroke chainsaws aren't widely available. Power to weight ratio is terrible. Dolmar developed a 4 stroke saw some years ago but it never went to market that I'm aware of. It could possibly be a good firewood saw but that's about it.

The power to rate ratio is a good point. I'll be training volunteers with the City of Glendora with safety as well as situational awareness, they will be getting a cut-back version of the Federal saw safety training that is mandated for Federal workers on public lands. Having saws that are less beefy *might* be a good thing for infrequent volunteers.

If it takes longer for a volunteer sawyer to buck something, maybe that will slow them down. Us instructors try to get people to *think* before, during, and after a cut when clearing trails, and with chainsaws, things move so quickly that thinking time is short. Maybe with under-powered saws that will slow things down and give volunteers more time between cuts.

It's one thing we'll have to evaluate when looking at this saw, how it interacts with real humans.

 

[haakon]

The 4 stroke is a lot easier on the ears for sure - not just decibels either, its a softer tone that doesn't drill into your head through ear muffs like the 2 strokes can!

 

[haakon]

But dont write off the technology on the back of the cheap ones - lots of cheap 2 strokes out there that are not amazing too.

I suspect though its a bit of a dead end - most will go straight from 2 stroke to electric.

 

[FredricRice]

The 4 stroke is a lot easier on the ears for sure - not just decibels either, its a softer tone that doesn't drill into your head through ear muffs like the 2 strokes can!

This one still vibrated a lot. I made a video of the first saw that ran out of the box:

 

[haakon]

This one still vibrated a lot. I made a video of the first saw that ran out of the box:

Thats idling way too high.

 

[FredricRice]

Thats idling way too high.

Yep. I'm going to leave the idle where it is until it is broken in, and I want to test it at 7800 feet altitude before I touch it.

 

[haakon]

Yep. I'm going to leave the idle where it is until it is broken in, and I want to test it at 7800 feet altitude before I touch it.

If its like the one I got here at Aldi in Australia, you'll need those special "tamperproof" screwdrivers for the high and low mixtures at least - normal flathead wont work.

 

[FredricRice]

Well, when the laws finally outlaw all of the 2 strokes, we'll see how much CA's left wing greenie wienies like it when the first forest fire burns all the way across the state because no-one is allowed to buy the tools needed to slow or stop it. Maybe Nevada should cut a big fire break all the way down the state line.

Um, no. The Forest Service, BLM, and NPS will continue to use 2-stroke Stihl nation wide even while as State by Sate the old 2-strokes are banned for new sales, though eventually Federal air quality rules in locations where the air quality is hazardous will likely see adoptions of the California State's air quality rules, or a variation which is expected to be adopted nation wide as 2-strokes are phased out.

We will see what 4-stroke products Stihl has to offer which are congruent with field quality experienced by existing 2 strokes.

 

[tomalophicon]

I dont identify as a Canberran, cant stand the place. Just stuck here for work...

But as an Australian in particular, you should know the big fast scary fires are in the crowns - mucking around in the undergrowth doing prescribed burns will maybe possibly make it a little more controllable in the early stages if you're really lucky, but thats about it. Prescribed burning etc is more about public perception - bit like the safety instructions on an aircraft

Big firebreaks are put in with dozers - not chainsaws.

Anyway, thats largely beside my point - which was American (and Australian...) politics are as dumb as dogsiht making environmental issues a left/right thing. We all have the same lungs...

Los Angeles has some pretty unique geography that, along with a serious car addition problem even by american standards (google GM/Firestone/Standard Oil and their buyout of LA's awesome tram system that they then scrapped in order to sell more cars - shameful...) made their smog problems pretty awful. They have had to lead on emissions controls, and good on them. They pioneered the requirements to have catalytic converters for example, huge contribution to air quality across the world.

Every time something like this happens, there are always the usual "but muh freedumbs" crowd having a sook. Suck it up princess - its not all about you.

Cheers - so you debunked it?