Four stroke chainsaw at Lowes

[frank_]

i agree that 4 stroke will get skipped by battery saws, as musk says, it takes 5kwh of electricity to refine 1 gallon of gas, and probably another half a gallon to extract it and transport it to the point of use
may as well just charge the batteries locally (1 roof panel runs all my tools all year) plus no ethanol crap and no stale fuel issues

 

[fields_mj]

I am in contact with the person who wrote the legislation, Marc Berman (Ca). I informed him of the issues with fire fighting, tree service and other contractors that require high power hand held two stroke equipment. Wild land firefighting is exempt. Tree service and logging will most likely be exempted due to zero battery saw equivalent to 45cc and larger saws. Marc Berman and others know nothing about what we do for a living. They are clueless about the equipment. They come directly out of academia and have never worked a manual labor job. He is being embarrassed on social media for his lack of knowledge. We are fighting this law every step of the way in Ca.

And that was my entire point. Keep up the good work.

While I consider myself to be pretty conservative, I do understand the need for regulation. When the exercise of one individual's rights negatively impact another individual, there is a need for some type of regulation because both individuals are equal. The rights of one do not supersede the rights of the other. However, the rights of both supersede the right of any government body. The problem is that no one is after a healthy balance. One side believes that EVERY regulation comes straight out of hell, and is only designed to enslave the population. They fail to see how poor decisions are impacting others, and will continue to negatively impact others for generations to come. They only see how the government has overstepped its authority, and abused its power to ensure that rights of certain individuals ARE and CONTINUE TO BE prioritized over the rights of others. The other side believes that everything should be regulated to the point that people are no longer allowed to make decisions that could negatively impact their own life nor the life of others. They either fail to see, or do not care that living this way enslaves them to those who are making the decisions. They believe that the only reason a person would NOT want something regulated is so that the person could take advantage of others. Both sides have factual data to support what ever argument they are trying to make. Neither side realizes that NO data will ever tell the WHOLE truth because when data is collected for the purpose of proving a point, it will ALWAYS prove that point.

With regards to power tools, there is a legitimate need and use for battery powered equipment. I love my battery powered drills and impacts. They work great for most applications. However, when I have to work on anything on the front end of my truck, I leave the battery powered tools sitting on the shelf because everything on my truck is rusted in place and normally requires some persuasion from a blue wrench in addition to a good impact. Battery powered tools are just not the right tools for that job. If you need to clean up a limb from a tree, or cut some wood for a few camp fires, a battery powered saw is great. Every time you pull the trigger, it runs no matter how long it's been since you ran it last. However, if you are going to be cutting all day long, a battery powered saw will NEVER be up to the task.

 

[fields_mj]

i agree that 4 stroke will get skipped by battery saws, as musk says, it takes 5kwh of electricity to refine 1 gallon of gas, and probably another half a gallon to extract it and transport it to the point of use
may as well just charge the batteries locally (1 roof panel runs all my tools all year) plus no ethanol crap and no stale fuel issues

Yes, but my battery powered tools wear out and die a LOT faster than my other tools, especially the batteries themselves. They are heavy, and cost a lot to ship. They are also extremely expensive to make, and the manufacturing process is extremely dirty. Not to mention the damage done to the environment during the mining process, and the negative impact of having to deal with the worn out batteries and tools. I like my battery powered tools, but they won't replace a 60cc or bigger saw in my life time. If I'm wrong, that would be a good thing.

I looked into solar around here a few years ago. To have a panel installed was going to cost in excess of $10K, and it was only expected to last about a decade, and it would never come close to paying for itself.

 

[frank_]

Yes, but my battery powered tools wear out and die a LOT faster than my other tools, especially the batteries themselves. They are heavy, and cost a lot to ship. They are also extremely expensive to make, and the manufacturing process is extremely dirty. Not to mention the damage done to the environment during the mining process, and the negative impact of having to deal with the worn out batteries and tools. I like my battery powered tools, but they won't replace a 60cc or bigger saw in my life time. If I'm wrong, that would be a good thing.

I looked into solar around here a few years ago. To have a panel installed was going to cost in excess of $10K, and it was only expected to last about a decade, and it would never come close to paying for itself.

yes handtool battery tech has been very poor (cells out of balance mainly)
but now car and house batteries have every cell monitored, and they have 10yr warranties
in another 5 or 10 yrs lipo,s and solid state batteries will have a high scrap value and 100% recycled

 

[haakon]

Anyhoo - back in topic.

That’s a good point - maybe we will see miniaturised battery management systems (and maybe even temperature management?) in cells small enough for these things?
Ones things for sure though, energy density is going to get better.

yes handtool battery tech has been very poor (cells out of balance mainly)
but now car and house batteries have every cell monitored, and they have 10yr warranties
in another 5 or 10 yrs lipo,s and solid state batteries will have a high scrap value and 100% recycled

 

[rocketnorton]

like that rd...

 

[ken morgan]

It's not our forests in California that are the wildfire problem, it's our desert chaparral that burns and sweeps in to forested areas, most of the time, adversely impacted by the warming climate and the desiccation of our soils, something we're seeing across the entire American Southwest -- even "Red States" -- as water sources dry up and disappear and rainfall increases across shorter periods of time.

Those old-timers like me remember a time when our nation's air quality was so bad that we had "smog days" in various places across the country, days when schools had to close and it was recommended that children and old timers stay indoors and not exercise much. Playing outside was like smoking a pack of tobacco products, and old timers like me remember.

California State's medical bills for citizens hospitalized or otherwise treated for smog inhalation used to be around the top in any State, other than parts of Texas and a few places on the East Coast where topology did not clear the air or sweep the smog Westward or out to sea. Since we instigated serious progressive air quality rules, we have cleaned up our air and aggregate pollutant medical bills declined in a plot that one could match against the quality of our air.

a lot of california was a desert prior to them pumping in water from the neighboring states.... just saying.

 

[sgbotsford]

I looked into solar around here a few years ago. To have a panel installed was going to cost in excess of $10K, and it was only expected to last about a decade, and it would never come close to paying for itself.

Here the accepted figure is that they will drop about 10% in 15 years and another 10% by 25 years.

We have provisions that surplus energy in the summer feeds back into the grid, and credits your bill.

Here a 11 KVA setup costs about 25 thousand to put in, including permits an support structures. That unit will create about 14,000 kWh of energy per year. At 10c/kWh that's $1,400 per year. Which is a payout of about 18 years. This is without any subsidy programs. This is not worth doing if you have to borrow money to do it, but it's a better return than bank interest.

But there is a loophole in our regs, where you can switch billing plans 2-3 times a year. You have to buy power when you need it at the same rate you sell power to the grid.

But one of the plans is to buy power at peak spot price: 27c/kWh. Why would you do that? Because in the summer you are *selling* power at 25 c/kWh too. So you switch to "summer plan" in March, and back to winter plan in October. Numbers will vary depending on your site. One solar power engineer friend will track your bill, and recommend when to switch.

Now this particular loophole could close, so you should have a plan that is reasonable without it.

Summer power is about twice winter power in terms of generation, and more of the power in summer is surplus. But an 11 kVA array will generate somewhere between 70 and 90 kWh/day in summer. 40-60 of that is surplus for your typical 600kWh medium size ouse. Call it 50. So in summer your array is generating $13.50 a day. If you do that 200 days a year, thats 2700/year. This makes for a MUCH faster payout.

Rules vary by jurisiction. I'm considering putting in an acre sized array if the rules will let me and still get in on this plan.

 

[RUSHNBOBO]

Not sure owner neglect and lack of maintenance is a reflection of the technology!
There are obviously a few key benefits of 4 stroke - ease of starting and use, torque, and of course - fuel consumption and emissions. There are a bunch of reasons you cant get a 2 stroke in your "truck"! Same reasons largely why you wont be able to buy a 4 stroke either soon enough

Wow, you know nothing about two strokes. A equal displacement two stroke not only makes more hp than a four stroke but also makes considerably more torque. This has been proven on the dyno time and time again. A four stroke can, and often does, make a wider powerband but peak hp and torque easily goes to the two stroke.http://www.motoheadmag.com/the-mx2-question-2-stroke-or-4-for-2020/

 

[husqvarna257]

I have a Husqvarna 4 stroke brush cutter and it takes down wild rose bushes and grape vines no problem. I run true fuel in it because it seldom gets use.

 

[getagrip]

A properly tuned 2-stroke will ALWAYS be easier to start than ANY 4-stroke. Just physics.

I've got a '74 Yamaha RD350 2-stroke twin that gets 35 MPG with frequent WOT runs. Can't say that's bad fuel consumption there with my 175 lb. fat belly resting on the tank. I built it and tuned it. Starts 1 kick all season. 3 kicks if it sits 5-7 months. As far as emissions, well, that's of no concern of mine. I've got asthma - if the air was as bad as some chicken littles say it is, then I'd have been dead 30 years now.

View attachment 939060

 

[sgbotsford]

And since when did 2 stroke lawn/ag equipment become a significant, or even measurable source of air pollution??? How about we expand that question to ALL of the agriculture equipment in the US? I'm all for taking care of the environment, but I'm smart enough to understand that you will never make progress by focusing on the little 1% stuff. You have to back up and look at the whole picture and then focus on the major contributing factors. 2 stroke engines in the US don't even make the list of small stuff.

California. More people than all o Canada.

California put car emissions in place because of the smog they made. That market was big enough it influenced Detroit. Eventually we had national standards. California keeps upping the ante though.

Currently Joe Homeowner puts more crap into the air in his 45 minutes with the lawnmower and string trimmer on Saturday than he does with his 3 hours of commuting each day. This is true even if his mower is a 4 stroke.

So, yeah, if you are crowded together like people are in California, putting restrictions on 2 cycle engines is the next logical step.

I agree that if you live in western Montana, the crap from a chainsaw isn't a big deal. "The solution to pollution is dilution"

As to all ag equipment. Even old diesel tractors without emission controls aren't very harmful. Most tractor engines run at constant speed for long hours -- a job that even mechanically controlled diesels do very well. Most of the rest are 4 stroke gas engines. I have 11 of them on my farm. The 9 hp Subaru engine on my soil mixer goes through 1 5 gallon jerry of gas a year. Diesel soot is inefficient, and a diesel exhaust stinks and is an eye irritant when you start the tractor in the shed, but not particularly harmful in small quantities.

So you are right: Agriculture engine use doesn't contribute much, and what it does, is spread out.

 

[TBS]

So has anyone else besides @OM617YOTA run this or a similar saw?

 

[haakon]

So has anyone else besides @OM617YOTA run this or a similar saw?

I’ve got one of the earlier models (that shares the bar and engine oil) for occasional use and I like it for being different and it works very well. Not for commercial use though!

My Dad has one of these newer models that gets regular use on Australian hardwood for firewood collection, and he likes it. Again, not the most powerful kid on the block but he likes the easy starting, no smoke, and much quieter than a 2 stroke. It’s holding up well to pretty solid use and seems reliable so far.

 

[ken morgan]

What complete and utter bullsiht… Mate, I live here and the lockdowns and public health measures are well supported and adhered to by the public. We tend to be less self centred morons here (not completely of course, no country is any one thing), and work better together as a society in such things for the benefit of all. You call it a lack of freedom, we call it working together.

It’s a noisy and destructive minority that your own right wing ****heads are using to stir politics in your country. There is a simple rule of thumb we apply here that will work for you too - if it’s on the Murdoch media, it’s going to be total *****, misleading at the very best and usually a flat out lie.
If you lot had mirrored our approaches, literally hundreds of thousands of lives would have been saved.
The US is comfortable with killing what will in time be millions of its own for so called “freedoms” - we are not ok with such a death toll here.


Australia and Florida have a similar population size but their COVID-19 policies are vastly different - ABC News
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08...n-zero-covid-objective-vaccinations/100391760

you obviously did not pay attention to where I live at. I live in japan and have for the last 35 years.... we do not have cops running around arresting people for breaking lockdown curfews or any of the other myriad of reasons why Australia and the US pop up on the news for... Here other than the Tokyo metro area for the most part did not have any full blown lockdowns, just travel advisories and the respectful request to curtail non critical travel. but even if you did not curtail your travel there were no brown shirts kicking in doors like in Australia and the US. and I get my information from all of the major news sources. and bounce them back and forth to separate the grain from the chaff, they all lie to promote their ideology none of them are unbiased anymore.

 

[TBS]

I’ve got one of the earlier models (that shares the bar and engine oil) for occasional use and I like it for being different and it works very well. Not for commercial use though!

My Dad has one of these newer models that gets regular use on Australian hardwood for firewood collection, and he likes it. Again, not the most powerful kid on the block but he likes the easy starting, no smoke, and much quieter than a 2 stroke. It’s holding up well to pretty solid use and seems reliable so far.

I've seen different ones online, ferris was one brand.

 

[haakon]

you obviously did not pay attention to where I live at. I live in japan and have for the last 35 years.... we do not have cops running around arresting people for breaking lockdown curfews or any of the other myriad of reasons why Australia and the US pop up on the news for... Here other than the Tokyo metro area for the most part did not have any full blown lockdowns, just travel advisories and the respectful request to curtail non critical travel. but even if you did not curtail your travel there were no brown shirts kicking in doors like in Australia and the US. and I get my information from all of the major news sources. and bounce them back and forth to separate the grain from the chaff, they all lie to promote their ideology none of them are unbiased anymore.

Yes well, that’s because Japan is civilised and respectful. Unlike the red neck wonderland that is Australia or the libertarian hellscape that is the US. Japan like a lot of Asian countries is also used to wearing masks in public if you’re at risk of a cold or if you have one as a courtesy to others.
Japan has plenty of its own problems like any country, but it’s a much more cohesive society when it comes to things like this.

But there are no “brown shirts” kicking in doors here… Not sure where you got that, but it’s crap.

 

[haakon]

I've seen different ones online, ferris was one brand.

Beuller? Beuller?
The Aldi brand in Ferrex - this is what mine and my Dads one is labelled

 

[TBS]

 

[cmhmhh]

So, I waded through the swamp of an international weenie waggle that this thread became to find that there is STILL NO VIDEO posted of someone actually running/cutting with this thing? C'mon man...