Free Climbing

[masterarbor]

hey clearance, to answer your question, on big single stemmed spruces and pines I go all the way up and set a line on a friction saver. This way I can take the pressure off my feet once in a while and I can move around easier, I mostly use my spikes and lanyard but It's nice to have a line in the top. It's nice to have a line in the top if I need to descend too like if my groundie needs a hand etc. On multi leadered complex trees I use a tip tie in too. Only on simple little trees do I skip the climbing line.

why tie in if you're cutting the tree down? if you're climbing a conifer for example, you would have to continually reset your line as you decend. do you use a throw ball and use it for the way up? and if not isn't it difficult to set a friction saver from the ground in a spruce? AND if not then you have to climb up, climb down, limb up and chunk down... so much extra effort. is this really in the name of safety, comfort or just fear based? this is the kind of stuff i get impatient with on the job site. it'll take 45 minutes before the groundies have any thing to do!
i would only recommend this method for newer climbers who are still gaining confidence. my two cents...:monkey:

 

[mckeetree]

why tie in if you're cutting the tree down? if you're climbing a conifer for example, you would have to continually reset your line as you decend. do you use a throw ball and use it for the way up? and if not isn't it difficult to set a friction saver from the ground in a spruce? AND if not then you have to climb up, climb down, limb up and chunk down... so much extra effort. is this really in the name of safety, comfort or just fear based? this is the kind of stuff i get impatient with on the job site. it'll take 45 minutes before the groundies have any thing to do!
i would only recommend this method for newer climbers who are still gaining confidence. my two cents...:monkey:

As an employer I have my climbers do things a certain way for safety reasons even if it takes more time. When a guy gets hurt they immediately forget about being impatient about the employers way of doing things and go into lawsuit mode. And in court if their lawyer gets OSHA involved it can get ugly. It turns into "He let me work in a manner that hurt me,sniff,sniff,. He should have have taken better care of us,sniff,sniff,sniff". I have seen it happen.

 

[OLD CHIPMONK]

If they signed off on " The Rules & Regs " they should be tied inat all times. Speed is not always an issue, but safety is.

 

[tree MDS]

Free climbing is something we most likely all did when we were little kids. Now this is our job and with all the exposure to risk the likelyhood of falling is much greater. Allways stay tied in, I saw someone close to me fall and as a result ruin his life-doing just that, running up a tree without even bothering to use a lanyard. I can tell you its not pretty, and I dont know how many of you have seen an out of work tree climber all busted up in a wheelchair addicted to painkillers but its not a happy person. Sometimes going up a tree that I cant set a line in from the ground I'll get to a group of branches and know I could just unclip and climb above them, but I wont, I'll get a few poles and move up a bun- I like being tied into a good sound, central top, and I'll admit I'm a bit of a wussy till I get there- but after that I do ok

 

[2FatGuys]

"Tied in" seems to be a relative term.

We all place a different value on our personal safety. I know, every time I go up, that there are three awesome kids expecting me to come home that night. I owe them the respect to make every attempt that I can to see that I do make it home.

Many years ago, I would free climb or be very slack about using my lanyard until I got to where I wanted to start working. Several injured friends and 3 kids later, I have learned that the small amount of time invested in proper lanyard and climbing line use helps to insure a safer work environment as well as promoting a safer thought process prior to making any moves or cuts.

My "normal" routine is: If it is an easy tree to set a line in, then I do that. If not, then I will take one up with me as I lanyard up, using the climbing line as a second lanyard many times. Once in the tree, I place or move the climbing line as necessary by throwing or using a pole saw. I try to stay tied in twice on all cuts. About the only time I am on lanyard only while cutting is when chunking down the stem.

The key is that only YOU know your own risk tolerance. I know that mine is based on wanting to be able to enjoy my kids as they grow up.

 

[masterarbor]

i would never suggest a free climb. i'd sooner bodythrust up a dogwood!
but someone mentioned a conifer removal. for be i put on spurs and a belt and a lanyard. tie a climbing line on my saddle and a saw and get right to work: limbs on the way up- wood on the way down. if it's real big, maybe an occasional tie in to rest the spur legs. i fail to see the big deal. i'm very cautious and safety oriented-never take chances, always rope a limb when in doubt etc. while not being overly cautious, i'd rather be tied in to something a little too low than go for something too small that might break out. the last thing i want to do is spread unsafe practices around the site and have some guy get hurt. but a 75' spruce for example...spurs, belt and a chainsaw is all i need. don't be mad...

 

[Blakesmaster]

I generally use masterarbors method as well. Just today I was discussing with my coworker how one would actually do a conifer the OSHA approved way. I suppose tying in to another nearby tree? What if there isn't one? Setting up some sort of tree to tree rope that puts the line somewhere in your vicinity? What if there are NO other trees nearby? Is the only "approved" method of removal a crane? That just seems...superfluous...wasteful...dag-goned silly. I know I'm not up on my safety standards and cut far too many corners ( one of the reasons I became a member here was to learn new methods of doing things safer while maintaining a decent level of speed ) but I can't wrap my head around a crane bill for a 50 foot spruce.

 

[Mikecutstrees]

why tie in if you're cutting the tree down? if you're climbing a conifer for example, you would have to continually reset your line as you decend. do you use a throw ball and use it for the way up? and if not isn't it difficult to set a friction saver from the ground in a spruce? AND if not then you have to climb up, climb down, limb up and chunk down... so much extra effort. is this really in the name of safety, comfort or just fear based? this is the kind of stuff i get impatient with on the job site. it'll take 45 minutes before the groundies have any thing to do!
i would only recommend this method for newer climbers who are still gaining confidence. my two cents...:monkey:

Like I said on BIG Single stemmed conifers. I climb to the top, using a double ended lanyard, Tie in on a friction saver, descend, then work on the limbs. I find I can move easily around the stem, I don't have to stand on spikes for hours and if I need to come down I can easily. Keep in mind I have a small crew and smaller truck so sometimes I need to go down to help out. I'm going to use this method on a 30" Norway I have to take down in a few weeks. I don't appreciate you making the comment about new climbers gaining confidence. I am not the most experienced climber here but I am not a newbie. I'd rather be comfortable than save a few minutes. I chunk sticks down all the time on just a lanyard but a break for my feet when removing limbs is appreciated. Do things how you like, just don't bash how I do things.... Mike

 

[masterarbor]

hey mike, you got me wrong. i'm here to support and discuss. the way you so it sounds great and i'm sure you do a great job. we're just chewing the fat here. my comments are directed at the thread in general and not you in specific. i've done it the way you so it and if my feet get sore i'll be the first to grab a quick tie in. my hope is that we encourage each other not frustrate each other! thanks fort your posts!
kevin

 

[Mikecutstrees]

hey mike, you got me wrong. i'm here to support and discuss. the way you so it sounds great and i'm sure you do a great job. we're just chewing the fat here. my comments are directed at the thread in general and not you in specific. i've done it the way you so it and if my feet get sore i'll be the first to grab a quick tie in. my hope is that we encourage each other not frustrate each other! thanks fort your posts!
kevin

No prob kevin, Thats what I like about this forum learning stuff. I guess sometimes people bash others and I'm a little tired of it. Too bad everyone here is so far apart it would be cool to learn from others in person. I guess thats what I miss the most about having my own company is having more experienced climbers/ tree workers to learn from. Big trees are a blast too. Nothing quite like taking the top out of a huge conifer..... Mike

 

[beowulf343]

I actually usually tie in on removals. But then again, i'm in way too many silver maples, willows, and boxelders. I'll run up on spikes and flipline, tie-in, set my lowering lines, then swing all over the tree. Tying in gives me several more options when it comes to movement. Pines, etc are a little different story, but most everything else, i'll work off a rope until it's time to start chunking the main stem my tip is in.

Main reason i'll tie in-easier to tie off limbs when you can just walk out it on a rope instead of fiddling around with poles, retreevier, etc. Too many times standing on the stem trying to tie a branch so it's butt heavy, swinging a pole around, drop my loop, swear, try again. Alot easier to set my running bowline at my feet rather than 10 feet away.

 

[JS Landscaping]

Hey guys thanks for the advice as stated above.... on conifier removals I do just spike up with a lanyard as well as my climbing line already around with the friciton saver as a back up incase I do spike out. Most of our work is pruning and trimming, where spikes are never used. I do usually have a lanyard around the tree now as im climbing up and my climbing line with a pre-tied blakes hitch hanging off one of my back carabiners off the back of the saddle. Ive come to just ignore the comments from the boss or forman for using a lanyard as im climbing up. Like stated above, gravity will hurt and kill if it wins. I really dont want to take a flight to the ground, so ill climb safe. Probably wont be staying too much longer with this company if the crap keeps up. I am fairly new to climbing, but not a newbie. I can work a tree efficently and productivly being tied in. Also climbing for 15 an hour really isnt cutting it anymore since i spend 90% of the time doing the climbing or bucket work. Thanks for the advice guys!

 

[masterarbor]

and there ya go...we went full circle and nuff said. what shall we talk about now?

 

[Nailsbeats]

I actually usually tie in on removals. But then again, i'm in way too many silver maples, willows, and boxelders. I'll run up on spikes and flipline, tie-in, set my lowering lines, then swing all over the tree. Tying in gives me several more options when it comes to movement. Pines, etc are a little different story, but most everything else, i'll work off a rope until it's time to start chunking the main stem my tip is in.

Main reason i'll tie in-easier to tie off limbs when you can just walk out it on a rope instead of fiddling around with poles, retreevier, etc. Too many times standing on the stem trying to tie a branch so it's butt heavy, swinging a pole around, drop my loop, swear, try again. Alot easier to set my running bowline at my feet rather than 10 feet away.

That's a good description, exactly how I do it, except I am not always clipped in on the first ascent. Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[UtahTreeGuy]

Single Spar Safety

On a single spar I still prefer two tie in points which should be a minimum when cutting. Osha (at least they used too) says that on single spar both ends of the rope need to terminate to one point on the saddle. This is so that if the spar splits then the split is contained by rope and not rope plus your body. I disagree with there method because attaching this way is (tipsy or wobbly) its not a good way for work positioning. Although I do practice this in a different manner.
I began using my single spar technique after almost being flung out of a willow tree. I was only about 20-25ft up removing a willow on a large wooded lot. My friend was below watching me drop the top out of the tree on this particular day. So I face cut the top and put a back cut in it, I had made a small face cut so that it would snap free a little sooner and jump out a little. Once the top had broken free it had decided to take my saw with it. I am a very stubborn guy so upon refusing to let go my chest was yanked into the tree and the spar was bent over in the direction of the falling top. A couple flicks of the wrist freed my saw and turned this Willow tree into a fine trebuchet. I was sent flying full speed backwards into the woods when my lanyard caught me. Now that I was entirely freed of the the tree with only my lanyard keeping me from going backwards I had no choice but to go down. Alas I do a wonderful chainsaw wielding airwalk (Here is were you imagine me in the air flailing all fours rapidly with one hand still holding an 020t) My left hand grabbed the top of the spar and yanked me in tight and I jammed my spurs back in. As my knees shook and my heart raced my buddy opcorn: decided that this was maybe the funniest thing he had seen in years. He didnt stop laughing till I was on the ground and let him know it was his turn
This experience led me to conclude that only a lanyard was not safe enough. My lanyard could easily have flung right over the spar and let me go, and with that kind of luck I might as well have been impaled on something when I landed. So I began using what I call the ankle bracelet ( For scared little girls that dont want to fall) hehe. My lanyard is positioned as normal and a topline is tied around the spar so that it drapes down towards my ankles or knees. This way if I get flung it will catch me and swing my dumbfounded but back into the tree also I can make a quick escape if need be (bees,bleeding, whatever) If my lanyard were to get cut then that would be secondary fall protection also. I also use it to rappel between large sections of log that I am dropping and then flick it back down to me. BTW, free climbing to the top in some trees is legitimate in my book and is YOUR PEROGATIVE! but using spikes instead of setting a line in trees that you are not removing is mal-practice. Pre setting a line is not always a guarantee anyways.
I Pre-set a Acer Negundo two days ago a little lower than where I want the final and when I got to where the final was going to be the winter had caused a long fresh slit in the spar It was still strong but you never know when you are way down on the ground.

 

[masterarbor]

On a single spar I still prefer two tie in points which should be a minimum when cutting. Osha (at least they used too) says that on single spar both ends of the rope need to terminate to one point on the saddle. This is so that if the spar splits then the split is contained by rope and not rope plus your body. I disagree with there method because attaching this way is (tipsy or wobbly) its not a good way for work positioning. Although I do practice this in a different manner.
I began using my single spar technique after almost being flung out of a willow tree. I was only about 20-25ft up removing a willow on a large wooded lot. My friend was below watching me drop the top out of the tree on this particular day. So I face cut the top and put a back cut in it, I had made a small face cut so that it would snap free a little sooner and jump out a little. Once the top had broken free it had decided to take my saw with it. I am a very stubborn guy so upon refusing to let go my chest was yanked into the tree and the spar was bent over in the direction of the falling top. A couple flicks of the wrist freed my saw and turned this Willow tree into a fine trebuchet. I was sent flying full speed backwards into the woods when my lanyard caught me. Now that I was entirely freed of the the tree with only my lanyard keeping me from going backwards I had no choice but to go down. Alas I do a wonderful chainsaw wielding airwalk (Here is were you imagine me in the air flailing all fours rapidly with one hand still holding an 020t) My left hand grabbed the top of the spar and yanked me in tight and I jammed my spurs back in. As my knees shook and my heart raced my buddy opcorn: decided that this was maybe the funniest thing he had seen in years. He didnt stop laughing till I was on the ground and let him know it was his turn
This experience led me to conclude that only a lanyard was not safe enough. My lanyard could easily have flung right over the spar and let me go, and with that kind of luck I might as well have been impaled on something when I landed. So I began using what I call the ankle bracelet ( For scared little girls that dont want to fall) hehe. My lanyard is positioned as normal and a topline is tied around the spar so that it drapes down towards my ankles or knees. This way if I get flung it will catch me and swing my dumbfounded but back into the tree also I can make a quick escape if need be (bees,bleeding, whatever) If my lanyard were to get cut then that would be secondary fall protection also. I also use it to rappel between large sections of log that I am dropping and then flick it back down to me. BTW, free climbing to the top in some trees is legitimate in my book and is YOUR PEROGATIVE! but using spikes instead of setting a line in trees that you are not removing is mal-practice. Pre setting a line is not always a guarantee anyways.
I Pre-set a Acer Negundo two days ago a little lower than where I want the final and when I got to where the final was going to be the winter had caused a long fresh slit in the spar It was still strong but you never know when you are way down on the ground.

i think i follow with the top line thing but just to clarify: the way i do it is i have a lanyard around the tree up at the normal place, usually kinda close to the cut. than i take my climbing line and pull my split tail set up out of the way and girth hitch the biner around the tree and back onto the rope. then i cinch up the split tail back up tight. this i do a little lower (18"). is this what you do?

kevin

 

[Magnum783]

The above post is what i do and love it works great. Not always is a high TIP needed. We all need to remember there are hundreds of ways to skin a cat and we all do it different.
Jared

 

[UtahTreeGuy]

Not sure I followed you exactly.

My lanyard is up near the cut (at high risk ). and then the topline like you said is lower. I have the topline set up the same as though it were over my head. It goes through a split tail tied in a Blakes hitch attached to a biner on the center ring ( floater ). Then around the main and terminates at the same biner as the split tail with a bowline. I have also used a false crotch but that does not move with me as easily and when the wood gets large it starts to bind. I try lots of stuff out and then sometimes find those techniques useful in unique situations but almost always keep it bare minimum and simple. Things get done faster and seem more reliable with less moving parts.