Friction devices aloft

[Tom Dunlap]

Who unties slings?

If you use cord a double fisherman's knot will set pretty dang hard. If you use webbing a water or beer knot become permanent [almost] once they're loaded. Slings get tied and left in treework.

 

[Tree Machine]

Tom, I think he's ribbing me as he knows I'm not the biggest fan of tying knots (t-o-o s-l-o-w). I get a bigger kick out of doing a single-hand choker set, whether with a rope or a sling. I can set a cow hitch one-handed, but that's about it. The rest of the knots and hitches I need to use two hands.

For slings, though, for tenex, I let Nick from Wisconsin splice those, rather than tie them. I far prefer web slings over cord slings and as far as knots and carbonated liquids, I prefer Beer over Water givebeer


Tom is the bouquet dude. I started using that here and there after reading about it at Tre' Boez.

 

[Tree Machine]

OK, here's how you do it. You :censored:

 

[xtremetrees]

man you dogs can shoulder some wood i know i seen it on the pic forum.

 

[Tree Machine]

GOL DANG iT, censor people! That's not nice.


Maybe we all need to agree to some ground rules of use, because as valuable a technique as this is, you can get yourself in trouble with it. Mebbe if we spell out what should NOT be done, mebbe the moderators will let us show some pictures and diagrams.

 

[Tree Machine]

OK, #1, do not use the tail of your climbing line. As convenient as it may seem, here are a few things to consider: Abrasion and wear on your rope, cutting a limb near where your climbing rope is, using the splice on that climbing rope on which YOU CLIMB.

On staying with the 'Do not use the tail of your climbing line to lower limbage' includes even when climbing on bull rope. 1/2" stable braid has been my mainstay climbing line all through the pre-11 mm part of our history. But when I climbed on 13 mm, I had no problem lowering stuff here and there with the tail. My problem there was, I climb DbRT, meaning both ends of the rope are on the ground, and I climb the paired lines the same as SRT. I need 20 meters of tail to lower a limb 10 meters, remember, the thing I'm trying to show you is a 2:1 Z-rig, which is a basic and fundamental technique in rigging. Youz guys are climbing mostly DdRT, which means your entire rope below you is tail. Mighty tempting to lower moderate limbage with that. Don't.

Belaying a limb out of the tree and retrieving your rope from up in the tree has an advantage of this; you are able to lift and jostle the limb if it gets hung up. If it's sorta heavy, or you need to hoist it up a ways, you use the 2:1 leg of your system, and the limb, to your grip, is half the weight of the limb. If it's not so heavy, grab both lines for a 1:1 pull.

See why you don't want to use the tail of your rope? What IF you used the tail of your rope, your limb gets hung up in limbage below you, and you have to abseil down and silky it apart or something, can you see how having a hung limb on the climbing line that you wanna climb on is a problem. On your friction hitch system, you can't go down unless the limb comes up. On my system, I can just pop down and wrestle with the limb, but it's still a pain, and rather dangerous. Just know this, and agree to USE A LOWERING LINE to lower limbs.

Maybe now I can show you the techniques.

 

[Tree Machine]

Start with looking at this first picture: :censored: :censored: :censored:

 

[Tree Machine]

OK, Ok, no need to be rude about this. We're tryin to work together here.

Gimme a few minutes to think about this. There must be a loophole, or an exception.

 

[trevmcrev]

Keep trying TM!!! or send me a PM or email. Cant believe someone is really censoring this considering some of the other comments elsewhere on this forum. Oh well. If its such a safety issue cant you make a post describing in detail a strict warning to the arborist community on your discovery of this most dangerous practice so we know excactly what NOT to do. For all i know me and my fellow co workers may already be exposed to such dangerous techniques. It would be negligent of the forum to supress such important safety information.
Trev

 

[Tree Machine]

Well, we all do dangerous things, as this is a dangerous business. I believe that when you hook up a sling, or rope to a limb that you are taking precautions to keep your arms and hands away from the running saw. This is good practice. It's good control.


I'm sure the censors are simply watching out for everyone's safety, but y'know? So am I. I'm not trying to teach dangerous or reckless methods and I would hope what comes out of this is some guys learning some new technique, and becoming more competent and self-assured.


I also believe that lowering stuff from up in the tree can be safer and faster than having two people teaming up on the task. Keep in mind, I'm NOT talking about big limbs. Here's a point of reference: If you can't lift the limb back up using a 2:1, you're in too deep. If you're lowering something from up in the tree and you're just not at all comfortable, you're in too deep. If a limb starts to sizzle downward and you can't stop it, you're definitely in too deep.

Don't lower limbs bigger around than, what's a good reference? Put your two thumbs together, now touch your index fingers together. Now make the biggest circle you can with your thumbs and fingers still touching. I try not to go much bigger than that.

For the guys who've been PM'ing me to share this with them personally, I'll keep trying.

Just know that the Tree Machine didn't invent this, nor am I the only one who does it. I may be one of a handful who does it exclusively, but lowering a limb down solo and retrieving your rope isn't really anything new. It just doesn't get discussed much.

 

[xtremetrees]

Tm - When ropeing out larger wood will you stand to the side a little or alot during spar/stubb movement?

Did we find the court guilty of neglence while roping/slinging wood ?

I'd further add any top over 6-8 inches could encounter bark seperation athe slinging /roping point, enusre stubbs are therre to catch it. Bark seperates easily on Sweet gum trees.

 

[Tree Machine]

If its such a safety issue cant you make a post describing in detail a strict warning to the arborist community on your discovery of this most dangerous practice so we know excactly what NOT to do. For all i know me and my fellow co workers may already be exposed to such dangerous techniques. It would be negligent of the forum to supress such important safety information.
Trev

Very excellent suggestion, trev.

#1 Do not use the tail of your climbing line. Use a second rope, a lowering line, for lowering limbs.

#2 Do not go too heavy. No more than 2-3X your body weight, max. 6" (15 cm) diameter. If it's as big around as your thigh, too big. At this point just go conventional, it's not worth the risk and you're not saving any time and you're not being safer.

#3 use gloves. You are mostly belaying through your hand, though you'll be gaining friction from the limb and from a false crotch (sling) or real crotch, but ultimately the control comes from your hand. Bare hands are bound to take a beating because once you get the hang of this, you'll wannna let em cruise on down and slow them to a butterfly's touch just before touchdown. This means th line is peeling through your hand, and then you apply pressure right at the end. I can do this all day with a pair of ugly gloves. Wouldn't think of doing it at all with bare hands.

 

[xtremetrees]

OK, #1, Just know this, and agree to USE A LOWERING LINE to lower limbs.

Maybe now I can show you the techniques.

I would say maybe 40 % of our industry do do this unsafe thing of lower wood with climbing line.. Nice point TM!

I got a pic of me riding a log thru the air but I dont post it. Its slinged with the classic wire rope, it weights about 1500 lbs, I am only spiked in on it, next time ill rapell on a 8 if I could just crane some wood

 

[Tree Machine]

I know. I am trying to discourage this practice, even though the practice of self-belaying limbs inherently would encourage it. I've done it hundreds of times myself (When I climbed on 13 mm Stable Braid), enough to know what kind of trouble you can get in.

Use a second rope. Just trust me on this. Don't mess with your climbing line. They call it a lifeline for a reason. You gotta trust your life on this rope every day. Don't compromise it for any reason.

I have been lowering stuff on 11 mm for awhile, and I like the lightness and less bulk. For small limbage as I describe, 13 mm is really overkill. If it's what you have, use it. I just found that 11 mm offers better control and chokers really well and is just less work, overall.

 

[Tree Machine]

Tm - When ropeing out larger wood will you stand to the side a little or alot during spar/stubb movement?

Trick question. I do not rope out large wood. I'm trying to impress that upon you.

I imagine the burning question is, "What does TM do when he has to rope out big wood." I don't. I turn it into smaller wood and throw it piece by piece exactly where I want it to go. It's called firewood. Unless it's a saw log, or brush, it's firewood. I can cut it up in the air, or launch logs into the earth and cut em up on the ground, but the most economical and efficient and profitable and speedy way to get the wood off the property is to cut it up into 16" long lengths and have someone else come move it away. This is why I don't lower big stuff. It's just faster for me to cut the bigger diameter stuff into firewood lengths from up there. I enjoy it and my chain stays out of the dirt. Ground guy handles a saw very little and instead is busy moving out firewood, or dragging brush or cleaning up or chatting with the client. The less I require of him assisting me in the tree, the more cleanup he's capable of. I love climbing and cutting and rigging. I don't care for raking and picking up sticks.

 

[xtremetrees]

Man, today I was so thirsty I raked off the chips from the top of my coke and musta drank a half handfull of chip dust.

 

[Tree Machine]

I'd alway hope coke would quit with the lime, and the lemon and the cherry vanilla and give us some manly flavors like Oak, or Sugar Maple or Beech. :biggrinbounce2:

 

[xtremetrees]

Even on tall skinny leaners to firewood that out to.. Kool . One year I went to a hurrican saw a Dude had two utility workers pole straps for positioning. He was like a gecko. He also had a soft 9/16ths 200 foot rope he was just learning, one hurrican tree I did lasted 6 hrs. live oak all broke out and hung up. I loaded 4 or 5 no 6 ropes with my final cut bro. I know it sounds crazy but my ground man/climber ran that many ropes. He was tying to anything.

 

[xtremetrees]

Tm Did you always float trees like that one pic you got floating the tree above your truck.

 

[clearance]

Trick question. I do not rope out large wood. I'm trying to impress that upon you.

I imagine the burning question is, "What does TM do when he has to rope out big wood." I don't. I turn it into smaller wood and throw it piece by piece exactly where I want it to go. It's called firewood. Unless it's a saw log, or brush, it's firewood. I can cut it up in the air, or launch logs into the earth and cut em up on the ground, but the most economical and efficient and profitable and speedy way to get the wood off the property is to cut it up into 16" long lengths and have someone else come move it away. This is why I don't lower big stuff. It's just faster for me to cut the bigger diameter stuff into firewood lengths from up there. I enjoy it and my chain stays out of the dirt. Ground guy handles a saw very little and instead is busy moving out firewood, or dragging brush or cleaning up or chatting with the client. The less I require of him assisting me in the tree, the more cleanup he's capable of. I love climbing and cutting and rigging. I don't care for raking and picking up sticks.

You the man TM, I dont ever rig anything big cause it is dangerous. You cut and throw it accurately, so do I, it can be done. People on this site slagged me and said I didn't have a clue, was a hack, whatever. I have blocked down 140' Douglas fir trees, 020 then a 372 with a 24" bar, then a 288 with a 32" bar, in firewood, all into a spot 4'x4' try and rig all that down, why?