Friction devices aloft

[xtremetrees]

TM has a remote control device that unties his knots after his limbs are lowered to the ground... I'd buy that for a dollar.!!!

1) TM counts the limbs needed to be lowered and carries aloft 5 or 6 loop runners or slings. and 2) Ties the anchor to his speedline some distance from house or obstacle underneath and starts climb. TM moves the second anchor to his speedline as he climbs up.?


Most climbers work one or 2 ways they either: 1) climb the tree to the top tie in rapell down begin work. or 2) climb to first limb and begin work.

In scenerio 1 climber bypasses all limbs and free climbs to the top(danger)
The actual defenition for freeclimb is: to climb without a rope!. Safties in, ties in and rapells down to do his work. The inherient danger in this way is of course the first few minutes of bypassing limbs to get tto the top.This is not actually free climbing , I do not know the term for climbing up without saftieing in, I was originally tought this method (imagine a huge Hemlock)the safeest way of course is to climb bypassing limbs with 2 steel core flip lines .Always haveing one safety to the tree.

In scenerio 2 climber never unsafties, steps to the tree safties in and is always safied in and begins lowering when climber encounters 1st limbs, cuts limbs:no need to unsafty, climbs up to next limb.
In scenerio 2 climber hardly works while on rope at all. Most prooduction climbers may only tie in once or twice during a days work aloft.

It has been my sadest day to see my best friend in a nursing home because he fell and no rope was involved. This tells me in order not to fall, always use a rope and work from it.

Im sorry Ive gotten off topic please continue TM.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i've roped stuff down myself a lot too; just not all the time. Sometimes i'll leave 1 or 2 stobs as a "Porty" for friction wraps. With enough friction, i might even stand on line. i think it takes extra climber concentration; and also invites 1 handing your saw.

Some of the overhead rigging support strategies i use; wouldn't work on the smaller stuff; because they are designed to use the size and weight of the load 'against' itself. Whereby, i can't use the hinging of the limb/load itself, to further pretighten (automatically/ with self adjustmeant...) the line before tearoff etc. as well if load is too short. It is mostly line tension and line direction vs. load to me. So the self tightening during hinging is after sweating as much purchase from the line as possible; for as high a line tension to multiply by line angle for support and steering forces on load. Sometimes, i make even make a remote pull device for sweating line; from yet another sling/krab set (device set of 1001 uses).

A lot of times if the limb is rigged to go right(Folding right with the support/rig to right slackens the line; opposite direction giving opposite effect...); i'll face right (with some downward relief); but start backcutting to fold left(like a fake out); but allowing a finish of a tapered hinge to right. This raises line tension(as the limb inititally settles to the left); then the line pulls hard right; so i use that to force a stronger hinge. This gives me a tight line and a strong hinge guiding right; rather than a hinge strength forced without line tension; with a slackened line assisting. The length between the hinge and the hitchpoint is a lever to increase this line tension. So, shorter stuff gives less leveraged length to work the line tension high with, using this method.

 

[Tree Machine]

Thanks, Spidey, I have always loved reading your stuff.

Xtreeme, You're on-topic. Never are we off-topic when there's a safety message

TM has a remote control device that unties his knots after his limbs are lowered to the ground... I'd buy that for a dollar.!!!

No remote control, no KNOTS, I've mentioned that a couple times.

1) TM counts the limbs needed to be lowered and carries aloft 5 or 6 loop runners or slings. and 2) Ties the anchor to his speedline some distance from house or obstacle underneath and starts climb. TM moves the second anchor to his speedline as he climbs up.?

Speedline only when speedlining limb material. 5 or 6 loop runners or slings?, Yes

Most climbers work one or 2 ways they either: 1) climb the tree to the top tie in rapell down begin work. or 2) climb to first limb and begin work.

Or shoot a line with the BigShot, and while working be on that lifeline and use your flipline to always be tied in twice while making a cut. I work the lowers first, to clear the way for the uppers (takedown) to pass.

In scenerio 1 climber bypasses all limbs and free climbs to the top(danger)
The actual defenition for freeclimb is: to climb without a rope!. Safties in, ties in and rapells down to do his work. The inherient danger in this way is of course the first few minutes of bypassing limbs to get tto the top.This is not actually free climbing , I do not know the term for climbing up without saftieing in, I was originally tought this method (imagine a huge Hemlock)the safeest way of course is to climb bypassing limbs with 2 steel core flip lines. Always haveing one safety to the tree.

In scenerio 2 climber never unsafties, steps to the tree safties in and is always safied in and begins lowering when climber encounters 1st limbs, cuts limbs:no need to unsafty, climbs up to next limb.
In scenerio 2 climber hardly works while on rope at all. Most prooduction climbers may only tie in once or twice during a days work aloft.

It has been my sadest day to see my best friend in a nursing home because he fell and no rope was involved. This tells me in order not to fall, always use a rope and work from it.

Im sorry Ive gotten off topic please continue TM.

I am always on rope, except when I need to re-route it around something, which I do often. Smart to have your flipline clipped in during these short moments of non-connectedness.

Don't overcomplicate. the methods should be simple, sensible and not involve a lot of time, or # of motions. This is a repetitive exercise, so it's good to boil it down to the least common denominator and keep it simple. that way it'll work for you.

 

[046]

any pics?

 

[Tree Machine]

Still awaiting permission to share. But, yes. I have pictures. Did a little video the other day as I was knocking down a 90-foot cherry just down the street from my video guy. He popped over with a camera. It shows ome helpful sling work that would good to see, but mostly tapered wedge cuts to get the limbs to fold and fall the direction we wan them to go. Biggest spear cut yet to date, too. I have to download and edit that stuff, though.

 

[xtremetrees]

I agree Tm I enjoy reading tree spyders stuff to. It makes me wanna go up and test out his techniques and rigging equasions.

I think on a whole I try alot of different stuff. I agree to always work on rope and always be tied in with safety. However most production ie Non C.A.'s do not work on rope but rather use the life threating 2nd technique.I'd even say as much as 70 % of our industry workers aloft dont tie inand use 2nd technique.. I know alot of production crews never use a throwball to safetly work on rope. In production it is a time factor and the owner simply cant pay the monies not there..

As I stand here now I could name off 5 compies that gross over 1 million bucks a year, but I wont their business is not mine. I know of one company that sent 3 groundmen to the hospital in less than 30 days. Head injuries from bucket work. I had quit a month before that knowing full well the atmosphere of machoism was gonna get some tuff guy hurt.Again another mans business is not mine.

I have tought one climber 2 saftied point attachment to the tree and this has already saved his life as a ground man thru a 40 foot stubb into the tree he was atop taking a 12 inch chunk out of the tree violently shaking him out and he fell onto his rope. I cried when he told me of his close call and cursed myself for ever teaching him. He is flying to isreal to camp in the desert for a week tommorrow. He has gotten out of tree climbing and I am glad for it.

 

[Tree Machine]

See, you probably didn't teach him the part he messed up on.

I started out my climbing career on the life-threatening 2nd technique and occasionally, with smaller and medium trees, still do that. But to position yourself anywhere you wish to be, comfortably and securely, it means being on a rope and having mastery of the friction. This goes for both you, and any limb you might solo lower.

Gravity and friction and weight. That's all there is. Ask Spidey.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

For many years I've used a friction device, it is like a small bollard, hanging up in the tree. All friction control is upstairs. The system works really well. When my crew and I got the system down we figured it eliminated almost one full person on the crew. We moved a lot of wood FAST!

Hockling is eliminated because of how the device is made and we would use both ends of the rope on alternate lowers most of the time.

 

[Tree Machine]

Yea, see, I told you I'm not alone in doing this.

At the risk of being bleeped, how bout a picture of your mini aerial bollard?


I like the fast aspect. It is why I do it.

 

[046]

yep, sure would like to see a few pic's.

totally understand how this could be easily mis-used for pieces too large.

 

[Tree Machine]

yep, sure would like to see a few pic's.

totally understand how this could be easily mis-used for pieces too large.

Yes. That is the point exactly.

 

[046]

Ok, how about via PM or email?

thanks,

 

[Tree Machine]

There are others interested.

 

[xtremetrees]

Yep like superfly the graivty fighter could use it..

 

[jmack]

i've roped stuff down myself a lot too; just not all the time. Sometimes i'll leave 1 or 2 stobs as a "Porty" for friction wraps. With enough friction, i might even stand on line. i think it takes extra climber concentration; and also invites 1 handing your saw.

Some of the overhead rigging support strategies i use; wouldn't work on the smaller stuff; because they are designed to use the size and weight of the load 'against' itself. Whereby, i can't use the hinging of the limb/load itself, to further pretighten (automatically/ with self adjustmeant...) the line before tearoff etc. as well if load is too short. It is mostly line tension and line direction vs. load to me. So the self tightening during hinging is after sweating as much purchase from the line as possible; for as high a line tension to multiply by line angle for support and steering forces on load. Sometimes, i make even make a remote pull device for sweating line; from yet another sling/krab set (device set of 1001 uses).

A lot of times if the limb is rigged to go right(Folding right with the support/rig to right slackens the line; opposite direction giving opposite effect...); i'll face right (with some downward relief); but start backcutting to fold left(like a fake out); but allowing a finish of a tapered hinge to right. This raises line tension(as the limb inititally settles to the left); then the line pulls hard right; so i use that to force a stronger hinge. This gives me a tight line and a strong hinge guiding right; rather than a hinge strength forced without line tension; with a slackened line assisting. The length between the hinge and the hitchpoint is a lever to increase this line tension. So, shorter stuff gives less leveraged length to work the line tension high with, using this method.

on one handing , use the mini porty on a half inch whoopie its light, either stand it off or take an extra wrap to give yourself time when the piece starts to go the porty will grap it, clip your saw and presto lower it to the ground

 

[woodchux]

I just ordered a mini-porta last night.(the old anchor style)
That sucker looks like you could rappel with it .

 

[Tree Machine]

I was out doing crown reduction work today, there was some good, juicy stuff out over the house, much of which required lowering.

I had cut some stuff out of the crown where I was able to just cut it and let it drop. nick had to stack it, shoulder it and toss it over the fence. I had moved to another part of the crown and was ready to do some wrist and forearm-diameter cuts, about six of them. I went for the biggest one first, got about a third of the way through and stopped. Nick was occupied, and I really didn't want him to have to do anything for me as he was doing just great.

That partially-cut limb acted as a mini crane. I was able to sling and cut, and clip the sling on the rope, near the crane limb. By taking a slinged limb and running the sling through the crotch of the next limb to be cut, you can get two limbs on one sling.


By the time I got to that final cut, there were 8 limbs all attached to the one. Made the last cut. 9 limbs all descending together. Trust me, it was fairly quick because when you sling a limb to be cut, you are positioning your arm and body away from the area of cut. This is good safety.

Anyway, not pulling another guy off task is what I got out of the deal, and instead of releasing 9 things one time each, he released 9 things once, and had an"Ah Ha!" moment, and he was really ready by then for a stack of 9 limbs.

This is what I do for entertainment. I don't have HBO.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i think Tom calls that a bouquet.

Sometimes the drapes of a bouquet can be lowered down and suspended infront of glass etc. while ya cut stobs and freefall without risk of them being able to wade through bouquet/ curtain and break glass etc. Sometimes lower the bouquet to lean over and give dense ground protection while half suspended.

i like plotting the order of the cuts to help each other. Sometimes with 2 cuts and angled line, i'll face and backcut the farthest/ hardest at the end of the line to almost failure/ fold. Then, cut the other limb and slam it down into the line on sling/ krab between the support and the primary limb. This can leverage the tension in the line very high; and pull the primary cut around horizontally off from over obstacle; then rig both to ground.

Another way to go with more clearance is to cut the first/ farthest limb at end of rope and let it be caught by the 2nd position limb, cut it to be caught by the 3rd position etc. This way you can inch them all over. Also, the weight of the first can help leverage the 2nd over slower on a stronger hinge etc.

1 trick i like for increasing line tension on primary limb is to choose 'sprung' / leaned over by it's own weight support; attach line to primary load, and sweat line as tight as possible; ground locks end down. Then, go back to support, and cut top off it to speedline down the control side of the rigging line; allowing sprung support to lift up; thus tightening rigging line for main target load (unless you give relief to line tension/ let rig line slip). Then cut target load and rig with this higher line tension working for you. This can be combined with above strategy, by first facing and backcutting primary targed load; and then slamming support top onto control side of rig line.

A lot of times when i want to go right, laying branch straight down or to left on tightened rig line, to get line a lil'tighter before cutting across towards right. The tight line giving more support and forcing stronger hinge too(hinge strength just being a reflection of the amount of pull on the hinge at first folding) The length betwixt the hinge and the hitch forming a lever, whose length is a multiplier increasing the powers of above self tightening strategy. After tearoff, the distance between hitch and hinge still of value as ballast to the heavier/ green end. If the 'green' end is not heavier, load will nose down during hinging, then reverse to nose up, sometimes violently after tear off. So, for this self tightening strategy before tearoff, the maximum model would be spar with lead weight at end. That way you could tie off right behind weight (so as to keep 'green'/ far end heavy and no spar reversal after tearoff), and yet still use the full length of the spar to set line tight before tearoff and as ballast after. To like some kind of martial arts -use the full length of the spar/load 'against' itself; to do what you want. The only shortcoming needing enough room to pivot around; but then using that to deliver hitchpoint under the support (not past or lower load until hitchpoint is not past support point at tearoff) before tearoff. The raise in line tension can be a concern, but werked right there is negligible line impact IMLHO (whereby impacting line/ support would give more line tension). Also, i think a pretensioned, then self tensioned line before tearoff, can take a line with some elasticity and work it as a static line within the calculated range; the remaining line elasticity working as buffer for miss-takes.


Orrrrr something like that,
Thanx Guys,
-KC

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Bouquet rigging can save a LOT of time. With a bit of planning the climber can make one trip out into the crown, set the slings in order, then cut on the way back out. Instead of climbing out, cut one, climb out again, cut one, several come down at once.

Another way that this saves time, if you have a ground crew that can handle things, is that the whole bouquet is lined up in one direction and comes down in one place. When I used my ATV as a skidder the bouquets would make perfect sized skidding bundles. Just set the choker under the butts before they are laid on the ground.

Doing bouquet rigging with a ground crew that isn't capable of handling more than one branch at a time leads to a traffic jam in the drop zone. Like any of the work that we do, a little bit of training and direction with the groundies can move things along quickly though.

The alternative is to cut and lower one at a time. Overall, I know that using bouquets work faster. After perfecting the system over the years I've seen onsies used and it takes longer to rig, cut, lower and repeat.

 

[xtremetrees]

Tree Machine is the sling dog!.

I can see you now TM sitting around your house at night untieing knotts in slings you wish you hadent tied..lol

Edit Tm this is just for you.
Today removal of a river birtch about 16 dbh. over a house.As I dumped limb after limb on my ground man (on the roof) he was getting frantic dealing it it all. well, he set his saw on the roof running.. Bad thing.... The 136 kept running broke free and skiddied down the roof... LOl 180 bucks down the drain and onto the back proch.It broke the handle it may be replaceable..


First saw Ive broken in 8 years... No worries friend.