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Tell us if you use one. When. Why. You can choose more than one answer- Explanations are welcome!
Friction Saver Poll
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Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
On the occasions that I climb trad I ALWAYS use a false crotch. Mostly a Rope guide. Never a ring on ring FC.
Tom
Tom
Crispin Hoar
ArboristSite Member
I find a FS makes every tree the same. I always have the same friction on my rope. Tight crotch, rough bark it doesn't matter. The friction on my line is always the same. My friction knot reacts the same. Limb walks, decents, assents, swing and drops, all the same. And I don't hurt the tree. This is a good thing!
Tender bark or pine sap only; if any. Pulley and ring device.
Perhaps i haven't given this one a chance; to appreciate the consistent rope handling CH speaks of; but i appreciate the stabilizing, buffer of the friction on the support against my movements. Also, less heat in hand etc. when descending; but harder going up!
Perhaps i haven't given this one a chance; to appreciate the consistent rope handling CH speaks of; but i appreciate the stabilizing, buffer of the friction on the support against my movements. Also, less heat in hand etc. when descending; but harder going up!
Lumberjack
Banned
I use my rope guide for everything.
I use it on Pine removals sometimes, and I sometimes use it on hardwoods also. In ceder it is almost a must because very few of the limbs up top of are of a size that I would trust. On hardwoods I use it because sometimes it is hard to find a good TIP, so I just make my own. On pine, there are plenty of limbs up top for a good tie in, but sometimes I will set it for reduce sap buildup on the rope or if I get really high toward the top and would rather it be around the spar. I also (just from my anal-ness or whatever) feel somewhat better with the RG around the spar, instead of over a small limb. Also I use it after I cut the top out and need a TIP, as I rarely use my spikes. I have never gotten my RG stuck, and I do like the reduced friction on the rope. The only downside in my mind is the twist it (along with my VT) puts in the rope. When I get to the bottom of a 80-90' drop, I normally stretch the rope out to relieve the twist.
I use it on Pine removals sometimes, and I sometimes use it on hardwoods also. In ceder it is almost a must because very few of the limbs up top of are of a size that I would trust. On hardwoods I use it because sometimes it is hard to find a good TIP, so I just make my own. On pine, there are plenty of limbs up top for a good tie in, but sometimes I will set it for reduce sap buildup on the rope or if I get really high toward the top and would rather it be around the spar. I also (just from my anal-ness or whatever) feel somewhat better with the RG around the spar, instead of over a small limb. Also I use it after I cut the top out and need a TIP, as I rarely use my spikes. I have never gotten my RG stuck, and I do like the reduced friction on the rope. The only downside in my mind is the twist it (along with my VT) puts in the rope. When I get to the bottom of a 80-90' drop, I normally stretch the rope out to relieve the twist.
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Never.
Almost everything I climb. Here we go again but I care more for my rope than the tree. Everything I usually get to climb anymore is on its way out the door anyway. I use a ring and fixe set up mostly. If its something quick and don't want the slightest chance of it hanging up and I just running up for a few pieces then no unless it it pine then I may not evern go up at all. Find someone else to do it.
GFB
ArboristSite Lurker
We have several of the 2 ring variety, but we use the Dan House Rope Sleeve the most. It's very easy to set and retrieve, and for those that like some friction, there is certainly more than the rings. It's cheaper too!
Thanks,
Gary
Thanks,
Gary
Ax-man
Addicted to ArboristSite
More so than ever, had too many years of fighting narrow crocthed trees like Elms and Soft Maples. It took me a long time to actually trust a FS to climb on it without thinking about it after so many years of using natural crotchs. To bad tools like this weren't around years ago, when I did much more climbing on a day to day basis, would have a hard job so much easier.
I like using a FS using rope with 2 rings or ring pulley combo, instead of the stiff strap types using 1 ring and a pulley. The strap types seem to twist the pulley where the rope is actually going against the side plate more than feeding directly into the other ring, defeats the whole purpose of using one. I don't know if anyone has had this difficulty if they have ever used this style set-up for a friction saver.
Larry
I like using a FS using rope with 2 rings or ring pulley combo, instead of the stiff strap types using 1 ring and a pulley. The strap types seem to twist the pulley where the rope is actually going against the side plate more than feeding directly into the other ring, defeats the whole purpose of using one. I don't know if anyone has had this difficulty if they have ever used this style set-up for a friction saver.
Larry
Dadatwins
Addicted to ArboristSite
Never used one, have seen them demo a few times and it looks like a cool tool but not sure of the time factor with installing and heaven forbid the thing gets hung up trying to get it down.
okietreedude1
ArboristSite Guru
I use one in pines/cedars to eliminate/reduce sap on the rope. I occasionally break it out in other trees if I have a long climb, or hit a great tip that is nice and open. Its neat to have and not that hard to set up IF you have an open crown with a wide crotch.
I have a buckingham 2 ring.
The first time i saw it installed from the ground i was in awe. Id never seen it before and couldnt figure out what just happened.
I have a buckingham 2 ring.
The first time i saw it installed from the ground i was in awe. Id never seen it before and couldnt figure out what just happened.
NickfromWI
Addicted to ArboristSite
I use one. I am using a Rope Guide (which I love). I use it all the time. The reasons, which aren't all located in the poll, but some of which have been mentioned by previous posts in the thread are as follows:
1- Reduce rope wear. You know what I mean and you can't argue it. And sap? I barely worry about it.
2- I am a tree hugger and the FS minimizes damage to the tree. Even on a tree like an oak, when you get up to the ideal TIPs, the bark up there is thin enough that one descent will tear into and past the cambium. Like many of us here, I've worked for places where this could be the third or fourth time for that company to be trimming that tree. It pains me when I see the damage caused to the tree by previous line installations.
3- As Crispin Hoar has mentioned, it brings all trees to the same level. You can pull with the same force on your line and get the same response. It levels the playing field. I don't have to be worried about if it's a willow or birch or an oak or a maple.
4- I don't know if this is just an illusion, but I've only had the rope guide get stuck once. The rope part of it fell into a tight tight crotch and wouldn't fall through. The same would've happened had the plain end of my rope fallen in this same crotch in that tree. I used to get ring/ring FS's caught much more often. I find that a heavier FS get's caught less. I used one for a while that was 2 rings girth-hitched to a super thin, light weight dyneema sling made by Mammutt. I quickly found out that the weights on the end of such a light rope made it act like those things you see ninjas use in the movies where they swing it over their head and throw it at the feet of a fleeing enemy. When falling through the tree, my lightweight FS would get caught up in branches in the same way the ninja device would get caught up in peoples' feet. Since that lesson, i try to stick with heavy or stiff rope or webbing on all friction saving devices that I make and use.
4- It opens my options. I find that if I tie in to a natural crotch then do a natural recrotch and add a little more friction here or there by letting your rope rub on a branch, it gets to the point where it takes way more effort than is reasonable to more throughout the tree. Reduce the friction. Enjoy climbing.
There's more, I'm sure, but none come to mind right now.
love
nick
1- Reduce rope wear. You know what I mean and you can't argue it. And sap? I barely worry about it.
2- I am a tree hugger and the FS minimizes damage to the tree. Even on a tree like an oak, when you get up to the ideal TIPs, the bark up there is thin enough that one descent will tear into and past the cambium. Like many of us here, I've worked for places where this could be the third or fourth time for that company to be trimming that tree. It pains me when I see the damage caused to the tree by previous line installations.
3- As Crispin Hoar has mentioned, it brings all trees to the same level. You can pull with the same force on your line and get the same response. It levels the playing field. I don't have to be worried about if it's a willow or birch or an oak or a maple.
4- I don't know if this is just an illusion, but I've only had the rope guide get stuck once. The rope part of it fell into a tight tight crotch and wouldn't fall through. The same would've happened had the plain end of my rope fallen in this same crotch in that tree. I used to get ring/ring FS's caught much more often. I find that a heavier FS get's caught less. I used one for a while that was 2 rings girth-hitched to a super thin, light weight dyneema sling made by Mammutt. I quickly found out that the weights on the end of such a light rope made it act like those things you see ninjas use in the movies where they swing it over their head and throw it at the feet of a fleeing enemy. When falling through the tree, my lightweight FS would get caught up in branches in the same way the ninja device would get caught up in peoples' feet. Since that lesson, i try to stick with heavy or stiff rope or webbing on all friction saving devices that I make and use.
4- It opens my options. I find that if I tie in to a natural crotch then do a natural recrotch and add a little more friction here or there by letting your rope rub on a branch, it gets to the point where it takes way more effort than is reasonable to more throughout the tree. Reduce the friction. Enjoy climbing.
There's more, I'm sure, but none come to mind right now.
love
nick
jkrueger
ArboristSite Guru
Well said Nick, my thoughts were similar.
Right now I'm going to give the FS type in Sherrill's cat. with a prusic instead of a mechanical adjuster a go.
Also, I wanting to use the Kong double asender and then install after I'm up there. Many of you guys do that or have done it and I'm up to doing it now. The streangth required for a static line/lines is something I'll build, (I guess).
Yes, have climbe trees where other climber came before me and saw rope damage in the canopy. It has made me think before I do a natural crotch without a FS. I'll still do it without a FS, when I know I'm going up to set a much higher TIP.
Jack
Right now I'm going to give the FS type in Sherrill's cat. with a prusic instead of a mechanical adjuster a go.
Also, I wanting to use the Kong double asender and then install after I'm up there. Many of you guys do that or have done it and I'm up to doing it now. The streangth required for a static line/lines is something I'll build, (I guess).
Yes, have climbe trees where other climber came before me and saw rope damage in the canopy. It has made me think before I do a natural crotch without a FS. I'll still do it without a FS, when I know I'm going up to set a much higher TIP.
Jack
Don't buy the prussic one from sherrill it sucks. The pulley is a bit big and doesn't come through ring all that easy and gets stuck. I can get you a RG for 100 bucks brand new. But that price is just for friends Jack as I don't seem to have to many here. Envy is strange I guess.
jkrueger
ArboristSite Guru
Check is in the mail, do I still owe you for something else, ya, my 18' hi-v.
OK, when can I get it?
Want it NOW,
.That and the Kong assender and chin ups daily and I should be moveing up in this stuff.
Thanks,
Jack
PS: Dang, my hand just cramped bad as I typed this.
tophopper
ArboristSite Guru
this brings up a question regarding rope wear.
with everyday use, how long does your climbing line last you?
I used to go through one rope every 6 months or so on average.
I use a RG and or FC 98% of the time, i have a 2 year old fly line that sees regular use and the wear is minimal. As far as getting stuck goes, maybe twice in the last 2 years
with everyday use, how long does your climbing line last you?
I used to go through one rope every 6 months or so on average.
I use a RG and or FC 98% of the time, i have a 2 year old fly line that sees regular use and the wear is minimal. As far as getting stuck goes, maybe twice in the last 2 years
i use a 2 ring sherrill, the short one, all the time. more often than not i don't set it from the ground, or if i do i move it once i'm up there and have a different perspective on where i need to go. i too have seen the damage of previous tie-ins, sometimes my own a year or two later and the guilt of setting a rope knowing this will happen gets to me - so there's always a friction saver of some sort on my saddle, and i've started telling my employees if you work for me you will use a cambium saver. it gets stuck sometimes. much less often if you tie your throwline to the end of your climbing line before you send it up - if it lands funny in a crotch you can reverse the direction much of the time and get it to come through. learned that trick from dan the man kraus. i guess i'd rather climb my a$$ back up every 10th tree to retrieve it than girdle the leader in all 10. just my 2 cents.
k.
k.
NickfromWI
Addicted to ArboristSite
That's what tree care is all about!
love
nick
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