Future of chainsaw technology?

[Canyon Angler]

When you total up the amount of hydrocarbons, pollution etc. produced by every chainsaw in the United States and then compare that to how much hydrocarbons, pollution, etc that's produced by all the 2-stroke outboard motors in the U.S., chainsaws probably amount to about a drop in the ocean.

So why is EPA so anal about saws? Do the EPA bureaucrats and tree-huggers have some kind of "spotted owl sympathy" thing going on? :taped:

 

[PES+]

I'll post a link to help

This link states a lot of who was involved and with careful reading what transpired and why. Some big names were attempting exclusive control and licensing with unproven technology. It sums up the power struggle and the attempted coup

The clean air bill appears to have been used as an excuse for an attempted power grab

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/nonroad/equip-ld/hhsfrm/r00005.pdf

Check out the background

 

[stihltech]

problems?

I must not have had the bad batch of 4 mix motors. I have had 1 motor fail, but I think most motors will fail with bad mix and water. I have customers check
out the 2 stroke and 4 mix, the 4 mix wins 4 to 1. Most operators like the extra torque.
Works for us in this area.

 

[Just Mow]

The main issue with the 4-mix has never changed. It was marketed to landscapers and having to use mixed fuel was neglected often in the heat of business. It also was aggravated by the introduction of true 4-strokes before the 4-mix release.
The promises before and at it's release were
1.)More power....not there
2.)Less weight for the amount of torque....on displacement basis yes on weight of powerhead no
3.) No need of valve adjustment.....they need adjustment just like any 4-stroke and they carbon no matter what mix oil used hence the introdution of the EDTA decarbon liquid

To a man when asked all of the people involved at the time when asked said the technology was not a good idea...but it is here and still praised like the design was some miracle.....I just can't figure out what advantage there is and never could

1) The Power to CC ratio is there.
2) True /powerhead is larger than traditional 2 stroke but it is fairly balanced.
3) Valve adj/ Did the first one ever after three years of service it finally lost some power and the adjustment took care of that. Have not had any carbon buildup using the regular HP oil. The issue if any with the carbon on the trimmers has only been seen from not running the units wide open during operation in order to burn off any extra oil.

 

[Just Mow]

EDTA - yep, you'll use it on 4-mixes - mainly blowers run on dino oil. There have been few problems with the weed eaters (I've never has to use it on any 90s', 110, 130 etc..). valve adjustment? rare... maybe once after a hundred or two hours.

I've seen the results of 500 hours continuous run (BR600) on synthetic oil. Really nice. Stihl dealers now have an oil brochure that shows this pic, but I don't have one I can publish. The new "super" semi-synthetic is fine also.

My BR600 has about 100 hours on it, all synthetic, and it's as clean as a whistle (I've always wondered about that saying!) on the valve stems, exhaust etc, and just a slight pattern (hard to see though the plug hole!) on the piston top. No EDTA required on this blower!.

Would I prefer a strat verison? sure... Am I happy with my BR600, very...

Clear your PM's :newbie: :biggrinbounce2:

 

[bwalker]

yep... I wonder how many dirty saws to takes to equal the emmissons output of one transatlanic flight of an A380!
Today 02:58 PM

or about 5 minutes run time of a coal fired powerplant.

When you total up the amount of hydrocarbons, pollution etc. produced by every chainsaw in the United States and then compare that to how much hydrocarbons, pollution, etc that's produced by all the 2-stroke outboard motors in the U.S., chainsaws probably amount to about a drop in the ocean.

So why is EPA so anal about saws? Do the EPA bureaucrats and tree-huggers have some kind of "spotted owl sympathy" thing going on?

The EPA has went after outboards, motorcycles and snowmobiles much more so than OPE.


FWIW many people think two cycle outboards and snowmobiles are dead. the simply are not and as one comapny (Bombardier) is leading the way with compliant two cycle technology.
Their E-Tec outboard technology is unreal and it makes four strokes look like the antiquated clunkers they are.


As for the four mix. I always thought the idea of running a four cycle on mixed gas was of no value.
Shindaiwa's C-4 sytem is similar to the four mix, but has design features that IMO are much better. I dont know how either run as I have only spent a little trime running FS-120....I bought a FS-85 shortly there after as that unit has proven its self to be indestructible and maintenance free for the most part.

 

[sawinredneck]

The Shinny C-4 initially had issues with bending valves, but I think that has been taken care of. Most of the grounds guys we sold to would take the little weight for the added power!

 

[PES+]

I do wonder what Husky has been up to with the Cheap Poulan line and the Hisil cylinders with the coated pistons......that was a Merc Marine design that showed promise for numerous reasons and everybody assumed Poulan was just being cheap

 

[bwalker]

The Shinny C-4 initially had issues with bending valves, but I think that has been taken care of. Most of the grounds guys we sold to would take the little weight for the added power!
__________________

The C-4 was a cool design because it actually uses the down stroke of the piston to "supercharge" the intake. in other words the intake is linked to the crank case and as the piston descends the intake is brought up over atmospheric. Pretty cool IMO.

 

[bwalker]

Pest, whats the deal with HIsil?

 

[PES+]

http://www.ncccoat.com/PDF/MercuryNCCSAEtechnicalpapers.pdf

 

[IndyIan]

I think there could be lots of improvement at the cutting end of the saw. A chain with a much thinner kerf would be a big improvement. Half the kerf should be about twice as fast!
Also, much farther in the future I think nano technology will come up with some kind of cutting system that will make any kind of moving blades or chains obsolete. You will just press the "bar" to the wood and it will silently pass through the tree pouring fine dust out the back of the "bar". This will obviously be powered by a tiny hydrogen fuel cell making the epa happy...
Ian

 

[Lakeside53]

To hell with chainsaws - Laser swords! :biggrinbounce2:

 

[adkranger]

Color me ignorant, is 4 cycle even an option in a chainsaw? I know that technology has gotten better, but is there a compact 4 banger that can be run upside down or even on it's side for prolonged periods of time? Outboards and bikes are one thing, they are primarily run wheels/props down with only temporary upending in the case of MXs. Maybe I'm missing something out there or just too old school in my thinking maybe.

I second the laser sword, sabre thing. Much better. Bigger powered unit would have longer "blade", maybe even a pruning model to eliminate pole saws and pruners too. Just zap them offending limbs off from the ground.

 

[sawinredneck]

Color me ignorant, is 4 cycle even an option in a chainsaw? I know that technology has gotten better, but is there a compact 4 banger that can be run upside down or even on it's side for prolonged periods of time? Outboards and bikes are one thing, they are primarily run wheels/props down with only temporary upending in the case of MXs. Maybe I'm missing something out there or just too old school in my thinking maybe.

I second the laser sword, sabre thing. Much better. Bigger powered unit would have longer "blade", maybe even a pruning model to eliminate pole saws and pruners too. Just zap them offending limbs off from the ground.

Yes they do. It operates on the same prinicpal as a two stroke, they just add valves. The oil and gas are still mixed together and put in one tank and the fuel lubes everything like it would normally, it just adds a set of valves and a camshaft. Confused?

 

[Cam501]

Yes they do. It operates on the same prinicpal as a two stroke, they just add valves. The oil and gas are still mixed together and put in one tank and the fuel lubes everything like it would normally, it just adds a set of valves and a camshaft. Confused?

much like the stihl 4mix engines used in trimmers and blowers

 

[sawinredneck]

much like the stihl 4mix engines used in trimmers and blowers

That is what I was trying to explain to him, how they work.

 

[slipknot]

To hell with chainsaws - Laser swords! :biggrinbounce2:

Hey...it could happen. Husky seems to be buying up all the saw mfg's it can aquire(that's been going for how long?) I could be wrong but husky is owned by electrolux, but isn't Electrolux actually part of Ratheon(swede govt). Ratheon I thought was a division of United technowlodgies which is a really neat defense contractor. I know not all my facts are straight, but you guys know those neat little survailence drones that fly in iraq? Essentially those are R/C spy drones (r/c plane) Hey guys.....what kind of motors are in those?
(i don't know..i'm askin!) I wonder if those are husky 2 cycle engines powering those drones??? If that be the case, sub-corps lending tech to another bigger corporation in the coporate family why couldn't husky introduce the world's first Lazer saw??? My point to this story is just that I believe it could happen! United tech has laser technowlodgy it just takes alot(ALOT) of energy. Sooo the loggers of the future would have one hell of a lighter & quicker saw but with current tech would have to lug around a trailer of li-po batteries behind an atv.....actually as many batteries it would take you'll need the biggest of log skidders, Unless they give us back our wireless power transmission capability brought to us by Nikola Tesla, bankrupted and covered up by the world's elite bankers ..4-19-1922.
*snap* back to reality.......this is for entertainment only, please don't take me for being serious. (except the fact a lazer saw could happen)

I know all this seems far fetched but guys.....don't laugh @ lazer saws....I can't think of any reason It couldn't happen, outside of the current laser tech. (remember that lazer tech is supposedly work in progress...star wars tech for the futer) If they have a laser that can burn thru tank armor under controlled enviroments, it just takes the power it takes to power a small city.
Than it's common sense they are sandbaggin and are way further along than what they admit. Infact I bet they already have light swords, they just can't figure out how to keep from cuttin' a hole in the roof and the fact they still have to plug the dern thing in, so you have to watch you feet and don't trip over the cord in duel.(or let the cords get tangeled up for that matter) Cut a cord quicker than any other saw...even literaly.
Meets EPA requirement not event thought up yet...NOOO vibration at all...lighter than........we don't really know that do we...dern it!
HAVE FUN with this one.LOL CoveredinSAP...you mute little mime too bad you can't respond to this....that guy would tell us all about the next saw tech of the futer. He used to really like them STIHLS alot...a little too much!

 

[PES+]

I like that....where indeed is the y in Raytheon...

I look forward to actually laying my hands on one of the Dolmar 4 stroke saws and see how the run their sump. Dry sump pressure lubrication is the only way for multi-position use and still has some problems.

If people read the link I posted from the EPA closely they should note that one or several of the OPE companies claimed that they were only making around 7.50 per unit profit.....that still cracks me up

 

[slipknot]

I like that....where indeed is the y in Raytheon...

"Y" after the "a" and before the "t" in Raytheon. I'm not sure if thats what you meant??


Did anyone else see the history channel speacial concerning star war tech of the futer involving US military? Modern marvals? Lazer went thru one side and out the other of a dummy tank.


Which would be more possible? Plasma saw or a laser saw?

back to reality again....That dolmar your talking about I heard something about that in another thread... the thread had pics of the 4-saw by dolmar...where in the hell did the thread go or what was the title.. I can't rememeber.